Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Sosiel comes with Reach. A big benefit of going big in the first place is the added reach which Haplo often accentuated with Fauchard in P:K.

This has two benefits: massive battlefield coverage and taking you out of the frontline so you don't need to worry about defense.

I'd say character slots are a scarcer resource. A pet is like 2/3rds of a new character.

This is a good point. The question is how many are enough and how many resources is that character sucking up that could be offensive spells/abilities (made much more effective by those Mythics/Feats/Domains you're pissing away). If you just want meatsields you've got plenty of summons for that.

Mounts are good - I'm using two right now with Nature Second Mystery on Daeran and Wend riding Bismuth (sometimes - not a great fit with Slayer). I just keep in mind the cost (including opportunity cost), diminishing returns, and party synergy. As with Vivi/Monk splashes (what happened to all those BTW?) cramming them on every toon is worse than it looks.

 

[Haplo]

Mythics aren't cheap lol - they're the scarcest resource in the game! God save us from endgame theorycrafting.

Most martial characters don't have a lot of "must-have" Mythic ABILITIES actually. Mythic FEATS are another story.

free full attack for rider after movement

Yeah, ok, here this is just poor implementation. I'm on TTT now so moot. I highly recommend using it. Again though attacks are already my most abundant resource. I'm more concerned about landing the gorillion I already have and not dying.

Always active Outflank (with potential for Bond, MadDog Flank bonus and some other flank bonus from Cav Order, I think) and Half of the Pair help (the latter for 1 pair, obviously). As does charging, particularly with Cav charge.

You usually invest a lot more feats in personal defences on a non-reach footman.

Then use Reach lol. You're the one who taught us how to go big. I'm just using that. Conversely if I've got a character already set up to be a hard target I don't want to waste that. There are buffs that stack on vanilla that let you go big to some extent Mounted (eventually) but those are hoops I don't have to jump through (or pay the cost to jump through them) and don't work on TTT anyway.

Conversely, TTT has Undersized Mount and Animal Growth actually works there, so its a bit moot.

 

[Haplo]

I'd say character slots are a scarcer resource. A pet is like 2/3rds of a new character.

This is a good point. The question is how many are enough and how many resources is that character sucking up that could be offensive spells/abilities (made much more effective by those Mythics/Feats/Domains you're pissing away). If you just want meatsields you've got plenty of summons for that.

Summons can hardly perform like this:

 

[Desiderius]

Always active Outflank (with potential for Bond, MadDog Flank bonus and some other flank bonus from Cav Order, I think) and Half of the Pair help (the latter for 1 pair, obviously). As does charging, particularly with Cav charge.

Which is my point. Those are classes that get the most out of pets/mounts.

Use them. Don't cram them on classes that are there for something else if it degrades their ability to do that thing well.

Most martial characters don't have a lot of "must-have" Mythic ABILITIES actually. Mythic FEATS are another story.

There are more there than meets the eye if you're not just maxxing damage (which I don't need to do playing full party). With TTT (and especially Dark Codex) there are more than you can fit.

Summons can hardly perform like this:

Lol by lvl 20 I'm not so sure. I want to land my shit at lvl 7 when I've got Garg Clerics to disable.

 

[Daidre]

But Daidre what if he takes Leopard and isn't a Gnome???!

Then he can tank the first five levels of Unfair?

Like Leopard needs any gnomes to tank... I usually just take pet on some character whom I do not plan to use in my current run - if I expect any issues with cleaning early game with my current party + difficulty setup. Second mongrel who gets a kick after prologue is perfect for this.

I have tried many parties in the DLC 3 with different mixes of infantry/cavalry among my melees and my conclusion - most of those who fight on foot suck in the presence of good mounted melee with high initiative, at least in TB. Due to the free movement in RTwP everyone get free full attacks more often then not, but in TB decently performing group destroys everything or at least all high value targets in the first round so any martial input from not-mounted not vital-striking melee is close to worthless. At the time he is in position for the full attack, everything is dead.

Then use Reach lol. You're the one who taught us how to go big. I'm just using that. Conversely if I've got a character already set up to be a hard target I don't want to waste that.

And I had horrendous experience with Reach infantry om Hard/Unfair where enemies become much more willing to change targets, in RTwP and in TB both. It is especially bad in main campaign where all enemies from scripted ambushes or extra spawns in the middle of the fight just ignore high AC/HP characters. Only variant to get enough Reach to feel more or less safe for me was to go for the full set - Reach Weapon, Legendary Proportions + Long Arm spell/Lunge feat from TT Tweaks, but most of the game such character would have only Enlarge + Reach weapon and that is way too close to glass-cannon-in-melee for my standards.

And from all my attempts in rogue-like I only had one tank character on foot whom I'd prefer to any pet-tanking, and that was Sensei monk, of all people. Full package of her AC, AB, Songs and party wide monk powers was just amazing, and she was my only not-MC character (no mythic path) who always had more AC then leopard starting from lvl 5 or so with single-class build, without crippling herself in the long run with retarded dips.

 

[Average Manatee]

I'd say character slots are a scarcer resource. A pet is like 2/3rds of a new character.

This is a good point. The question is how many are enough and how many resources is that character sucking up that could be offensive spells/abilities (made much more effective by those Mythics/Feats/Domains you're pissing away). If you just want meatsields you've got plenty of summons for that.

Summons can hardly perform like this:

And most importantly, you can't ride your summon so that it isn't body blocking you.

 

[Desiderius]

Sure, the joke was that the Leopard tanks so that the (unmounted) Gnome can safely hang back, tho not sure why you'd want Gnome Inq in the first place.

If you're killing everything in the first round then the difficulty is too low, which ironically brings AC back into the equation if you kick it up to Unfair and there random Mounts can become a liability unless you're *really* investing a lot into their defense.

Your Sensei example is what I'm saying - characters have more tools (if you focus on what they do well) to protect themselves and the party than pets do (even if pets are OP, which they are).

Basically I like to play that way (focusing characters on their strengths then relying on party synergy) out of simple fun, but it has also turned out to be more effective for me. I can get a pet on any character in TTT from burning two Feats with Nature's Ally and it just hasn't turned out to be worth it (other than using it with unsupported Kineticist).

Haven't had many problems yet with stuff beelining back line (opening battle with Seelah Charge to turn on defenses) though also haven't played much with Sos yet (when I did he didn't get attacked). We'll see how big of a problem that becomes as game progresses. If anything Seelah seems to have some sort of undocumented taunt.

 

[Desiderius]

I c u AreeSu! Go on ahead and fight those 40 undead:



Brave effort. Thx for the loot:





Any idea why Daeran is getting disadvantage on his Spell Pen checks?

 

[Desiderius]

Drezen Citadel Dungeons highlights

So, uh, Daeran also gets Cave Fangs with Nature Second Mystery:



As usual the AoE display is inaccurate. And... Dismiss doesn't recognize the patches as his spell. So they stay there. Still very useful. Bypasses SR as well.



This Scimitar is already Keen so Divine Bond can get it up to +4 for added DR bypass. 15-20 + Bless Weapon is a nice combo with all those maluses. With Inspire Ferocity nonbo can often just hit naturally.



Inspire Ferocity lets Aru keep Deadly Aim up, which she kind of needs since STR is only lowish stat. Notice also Bit of Luck (Mirror Image) Mythic ability coming thru as it has many times already to dodge the Enervation.



Wend has been using Bracers of Rough Landing for the added AB, but Seelah will pick them up for another +2 AC vs Devarra once Bracers of Archery show up. No Bard/Skald creates a need for Competence bonuses. Competence AC is extremely rare.



Been planning to go for Mythic Finesse on Daeran eventually but 29 damage isn't so bad with wide crit range. Mythic Focus Evo gets his Archon's to stick.



Been keeping Death Ward up on Seelah to turn on Protector of Life Morale AC but this is fourth time it's come through straight up.




Really appreciate a game where keeping the skills up matters. Note the Critical Fail that didn't. Second Mythic ability (+3 to all skill checks) coming up big. Especially needed the Religion Lore in this set-up.

Headed back to Blightmaw with the Valor bonus and Mythic Path unlocked

 

[Yosharian]

Hmm you're making me rethink my reach Spirit Hunter build for Lann

 

[Desiderius]

Longbow has 50ft of Reach, brother.

Reinventing the wheel into a hexagon is no improvement.

Back to OP: Yes, if you've already blown your Domain on Animal Domain* (or are doing the Haplo Gendarme Voltron) then Inq is better off Mounted since Ranged TW Feats aren't in game and Mounting turns on the ones you have more reliably and makes you more resilient in melee than you would be on the ground. Even Allied Spellcaster with Solo Tactics is really good with Prayer and the like.

* - Inq is weird since it's already Swift-clogged so Domain Zealot isn't very good. A passive like Animal is better there than it would be on Cleric. Likewise spontaneous needs Abundant way less so Impossible has less opportunity cost.

And now, when animal has it's own feats (vs how it was in Kingmaker) and can acquire Teamwork Feats naturally, it kills off half of value from Hunter/Sacred Huntmaster teamwork feat sharing.

I used to think this but Improved Initiative is really good on a Mount (no Uncanny Dodge) as is Shatter for CMs (like Wolf Trip). In TTT you've got Dirty Fighting to unlock CM Feats as well plus the Barding Feats, etc... Like the classes we're talking about pets don't get bonus Feats so every free one is big value.

 

[Daidre]

I used to think this but Improved Initiative is really good on a Mount (no Uncanny Dodge)

Isn't it literally worthless in TB since game treats them as single unit with rider and (looks like) uses his initiative?

 

[Yosharian]

I used to think this but Improved Initiative is really good on a Mount (no Uncanny Dodge)

Isn't it literally worthless in TB since game treats them as single unit with rider and (looks like) uses his initiative?

Pretty sure that mounted units use the rider's initiative yeah

 

[Desiderius]

I used to think this but Improved Initiative is really good on a Mount (no Uncanny Dodge)

Isn't it literally worthless in TB since game treats them as single unit with rider and (looks like) uses his initiative?

You can see it rolling initiative for both in above pic. Pretty sure one of my near wipes was Mount getting hit flat-footed. I haven't taken II yet on Daeran's Mount since it's been getting things like Fury's Fall but I'll watch for cases where it rolls higher than Daeran to see which one it's using.

 

[Yosharian]

Guys! Starrok confirmed to me on Reddit that both Mighty Charge and Radiance are getting fixes deployed soon. Perseverence pays off!

Let's just hope they don't nerf mounted charging into the ground at the same time...

 

[Yosharian]

It is really obvious that Kalavakus is broken af.

So, I checked first of all whether the Disarm is actually testing against the enemy's CMD. It is, and if you fail, you get nothing. Knowing how hard it is to beat enemy CMD in this game, this puts a SIGNIFICANT damper on the earlier build concept.

Second, I turned off the CMD bonus I'd given the Skeleton (so that he basically gets disarmed no matter what) and turned his HP up to 90k.

I charged.

The game crashed.

 

[Desiderius]

CMs are no harder to land (and in some cases easier) than Vital Strikes. AC is irrelevant and things that debuff AB (like Shaken and Sicken) also debuff CMD where they don’t affect AC. You’ve got several abilities and items that buff CMs and True Strike works with them.

 

[Tsubutai]

Guys! Starrok confirmed to me on Reddit that both Mighty Charge and Radiance are getting fixes deployed soon. Perseverence pays off!

Let's just hope they don't nerf mounted charging into the ground at the same time...

What is it that's broken with Radiance?

 

[Yosharian]

Guys! Starrok confirmed to me on Reddit that both Mighty Charge and Radiance are getting fixes deployed soon. Perseverence pays off!

Let's just hope they don't nerf mounted charging into the ground at the same time...

What is it that's broken with Radiance?

Dispel at CL1. Bad because I want to use it for my Skald so she has something useful to do.

 

[Rhobar121]

I'd like to try the demon path, does anyone have any idea for an interesting melee build for unfair?

 

[Haplo]

Something with Charge and Kalavakus Aspect I guess. Plus Schir Aspect. Could pick Pumelling Bully as well for more cheese.

 

[Yosharian]

I'd like to try the demon path, does anyone have any idea for an interesting melee build for unfair?

I'm working on one but I need to tweak it. Have a look at the link in my signature if you want

 

[scytheavatar]

I'd like to try the demon path, does anyone have any idea for an interesting melee build for unfair?

Demon is the strongest as an Int stacker caster, if you want to play a melee build you are better off playing another path.

 

[Haplo]

I'd like to try the demon path, does anyone have any idea for an interesting melee build for unfair?

Demon is the strongest as an Int stacker caster, if you want to play a melee build you are better off playing another path.

Demon makes for very strong melees and hybrids, actually.

 

[Rhobar121]

I'd like to try the demon path, does anyone have any idea for an interesting melee build for unfair?

Demon is the strongest as an Int stacker caster, if you want to play a melee build you are better off playing another path.

The game isn't incredibly difficult if you know what you're doing.
So if something is not ultra-optimal, nothing will happen.