Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

So, since Elemental barrage is kill, what do with melee Camelia?

Reduce Person + Fencing Grace + Bane Enemies + Keen Enchanted Rapier

Still slays. Especially against targets where she can use Ghost Touch.

Scaling Hampering Hex, Cause Fear/Scare vs Gargs (shaken on made save), full Barkskins, Delay Poison/Resist Energy Communal at lvl 5, Animate as lvl 3 spell, good mid/late Summons, Second Spirit Mythic.

It’s all good.

 

[ga♥]

So, since Elemental barrage is kill, what do with melee Camelia?

Reduce Person + Fencing Grace + Bane Enemies + Keen Enchanted Rapier

Still slays. Especially against targets where she can use Ghost Touch.

Meh ok but slays less, tempted to respec her to shadow shaman via toybox, dunno.

 

[ga♥]

Through the Ashes content for base campaign can be gotten at any difficulty, while for IE Hard is enough?

For maximum main campaign goodies, you need to kill the secret boss of IE on unfair.

What do you get extra compared to Hard?

Also, is it enough to change it right before the fight, or do you need to set it at DLC start?

Killing it on unfair adds a ring of evasion to the first rift (lol), upgrades the belt of physical perfection in the second rift from +6 to flawless +8, and adds a flawless cloak of resistance to the third rift afaik. You only have to have the difficulty on unfair when you do the boss fight to get the unfair rewards.

I killed it on hard, so need to kill it on unfair but do you need to finish the dlc afterwards or that's it?

 

[Yoomazir]

So, since Elemental barrage is kill, what do with melee Camelia?

Put her on the street, come back in the morning to collect the money.

 

[Desiderius]

So, since Elemental barrage is kill, what do with melee Camelia?

Reduce Person + Fencing Grace + Bane Enemies + Keen Enchanted Rapier

Still slays. Especially against targets where she can use Ghost Touch.

Meh ok but slays less, tempted to respec her to shadow shaman via toybox, dunno.

Lol what’s rest of your team doing? Bane Enemy is awesome. Hampering works on everything (not Mind-affecting, scales). By the time Barrage would have done anything relevant she’s got a zillion casts and good Hexes anyway.

 

[ga♥]

So, since Elemental barrage is kill, what do with melee Camelia?

Reduce Person + Fencing Grace + Bane Enemies + Keen Enchanted Rapier

Still slays. Especially against targets where she can use Ghost Touch.

Meh ok but slays less, tempted to respec her to shadow shaman via toybox, dunno.

Lol what’s rest of your team doing? Bane Enemy is awesome. Hampering works on everything (not Mind-affecting, scales). By the time Barrage would have done anything relevant she’s got a zillion casts and good Hexes anyway.

Ofc bane is awesome, but bane and elemetal barrage would have better.
By chap. IV it already did decent damage addition so it will be a pain and probably will have to rethink team composition as in my 2 previous runs she was one of two dmg dealers in my team.

 

[Tsubutai]

Through the Ashes content for base campaign can be gotten at any difficulty, while for IE Hard is enough?

For maximum main campaign goodies, you need to kill the secret boss of IE on unfair.

What do you get extra compared to Hard?

Also, is it enough to change it right before the fight, or do you need to set it at DLC start?

Killing it on unfair adds a ring of evasion to the first rift (lol), upgrades the belt of physical perfection in the second rift from +6 to flawless +8, and adds a flawless cloak of resistance to the third rift afaik. You only have to have the difficulty on unfair when you do the boss fight to get the unfair rewards.

I killed it on hard, so need to kill it on unfair but do you need to finish the dlc afterwards or that's it?

From what I've read the relevant flag is set when you kill it rather than when you finish the DLC.

 

[Desiderius]

Ofc bane is awesome, but bane and elemetal barrage would have better.
By chap. IV it already did decent damage addition so it will be a pain and probably will have to rethink team composition as in my 2 previous runs she was one of two dmg dealers in my team.

How can you only have two damage dealers?* She has fast spell progression and Hexes. Damage isn't her main role but she does plenty anyway while triggering Outflank chains with Rapier + Weapon Enchant. Even gets Dazzling as a Hex (if that's working properly now). Shadow doesn't get weapon enchanting or Bane.

* - Daeran's Wolf from Second Spirit Nature does a lot. Seelah's Smite/Mark is extra damage/lvl, Lann/Wend do a ton, Wolj with Reduce/Vitals, Sosiel with Frightful + Advantage, who isn't doing damage?

 

[Rhobar121]

Vital strike + cleaving finish is still broken. It shouldn't work that way.

 

[Desiderius]

Vital strike + cleaving finish is still broken. It shouldn't work that way.

I mean by that time of the game if you've burned six Feats and achieved a crit why not? It's not like there aren't other ways to do big AoE damage. If you don't code it that way all the Powergamer tards are going to talk themselves into using Wide Sweep with Mythic Trick Perception or whatever and scaring all the noobs away from anything else.

In reality it's not like there's a pressing need to kill all Babau Eliminators before they can act, so you can make nice pictures either way but once you take care of the real threats Eliminators can be taken out at leisure.

 

[Desiderius]

Here:



You can see I bought Clerics, rolled for new selection and second stack of Clerics was still cheap (if it comes up on second roll). During ch2 it always comes up because it's all you have. Bought Spears for second army since also Melee General.

 

[Yosharian]

Thinking about Aeon build concepts...

Can you make Perfect Form 24H duration?

Perfect FormYou make your ally perfect in mental and physical aspects. If any of their ability score before modifiers is less than their highest ability score, they gain a bonus up to that number for 1 round per caster level.

 

[Yosharian]

Vital strike + cleaving finish is still broken. It shouldn't work that way.

Demon laughs at your puny weapon damage dice!

 

[Rhobar121]

Vital strike + cleaving finish is still broken. It shouldn't work that way.

I mean by that time of the game if you've burned six Feats and achieved a crit why not? It's not like there aren't other ways to do big AoE damage. If you don't code it that way all the Powergamer tards are going to talk themselves into using Wide Sweep with Mythic Trick Perception or whatever and scaring all the noobs away from anything else.

In reality it's not like there's a pressing need to kill all Babau Eliminators before they can act, so you can make nice pictures either way but once you take care of the real threats Eliminators can be taken out at leisure.

It is broken. I tried wide sweep to test it, but the game almost crashed after the attack.
If you choose rowdy you get most of the required feats for free, which means that already on level 3 you can have a cleaving finish (you have nothing better to choose from anyway).
Since a vital strike is powerful with a good weapon, you will almost always have two attacks. Of course, this requires a second target nearby.
If you use a better weapon like a fauchard it will be even more broken.
This damage is not even close to the maximum, it was only a level 20 character, without any additional buffs or items.

 

[Desiderius]

Vital strike + cleaving finish is still broken. It shouldn't work that way.

I mean by that time of the game if you've burned six Feats and achieved a crit why not? It's not like there aren't other ways to do big AoE damage. If you don't code it that way all the Powergamer tards are going to talk themselves into using Wide Sweep with Mythic Trick Perception or whatever and scaring all the noobs away from anything else.

In reality it's not like there's a pressing need to kill all Babau Eliminators before they can act, so you can make nice pictures either way but once you take care of the real threats Eliminators can be taken out at leisure.

It is broken. I tried wide sweep to test it, but the game almost crashed after the attack.
If you choose rowdy you get most of the required feats for free, which means that already on level 3 you can have a cleaving finish (you have nothing better to choose from anyway).
Since a vital strike is powerful with a good weapon, you will almost always have two attacks. Of course, this requires a second target nearby.
If you use a better weapon like a fauchard it will be even more broken.
This damage is not even close to the maximum, it was only a level 20 character, without any additional buffs or items.

Can't kill a corpse. Why would you need more damage than that anyway.

you have nothing better to choose from anyway

That's... not the case, unless you're just reloading whenever you get a bad roll. PA, Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Improved Cleaving Finish is four. Focus, Dazzling, Shatter is another three. Still want Outflank. Can burn a Rogue Talent on a Combat Feat but Rogue Talents (especially Advanced) are very good. Improved Initiative, Skill stuff, Shake it Off are all good.

Endgame theorycrafting DNE broken. You're spending half the game burning Feats that don't make you better yet so you can get a lot of endgame damage that you don't need. So what?

 

[Rhobar121]

At the beginning, you just need cleaving finish, which you achieve in the prologue.
At this level, you don't have a better choice anyway.
Up to level 10, there aren't many sensible rogue talents you want to pick anyway.
You can unlock outflank at level 6, shatter defenses at level 8 at the earliest.
Until then, you have one extra feat that you can spend on anything.
After level 8, good feats start to end and you still have at least 6 feats (basic only) to spend.
From this you would definitely take improve initiative and improve critical.
Alternatively, you might want dreadful carnage, the problem is that it requires level 15 where by this point one of your characters should already have a frightful aspect.

 

[Rhobar121]

By the way, does anyone have an idea why after selecting the 1 level of the beast rider for Seelah I could have lvl up her pet to the 3rd level?
Paladin levels should not add up until she reaches level 5 in class.

 

[Desiderius]

At the beginning, you just need cleaving finish, which you achieve in the prologue.
At this level, you don't have a better choice anyway.
Up to level 10, there aren't many sensible rogue talents you want to pick anyway.
You can unlock outflank at level 6, shatter defenses at level 8 at the earliest.
Until then, you have one extra feat that you can spend on anything.
After level 8, good feats start to end and you still have at least 6 feats (basic only) to spend.
From this you would definitely take improve initiative and improve critical.
Alternatively, you might want dreadful carnage, the problem is that it requires level 15 where by this point one of your characters should already have a frightful aspect.

Only if you play Human (which is it's own cost on a class that already gets a ton of skill points) and take Power Attack and Cleave then Cleaving Finish at lvl 3, which means you're not taking Focus there, which means you're blowing your first Rogue Talent on it if you want Outflank and Shatter on time. You're a 3/4 class with the Power Attack malus and no way to boost AB if you go that way. Vital Strike/Big Sneak Dice can mean not needing Power Attack at all which frees up a lot of room to take advantage of the other strengths of the class (and climb out of the hole of your low AB).

Exotic Fauchard is something you could take at lvl 1 to widen your crit range (though that wastes Martial) and/or you can pick up Blind Fight/Improved Initiative upfront to benefit from them the whole game (gaze immunity for Market Square Nabasu Fight, reroll vs tough foes with Concealment). If you're going to be covering Stealth for the party will need Skill Focus to pass checks on overland map in ch 3 where you really don't want to get ambushed.

A lot of good options there if you don't burn all your Feats on AoE that isn't that important if you've got an Archer or two with Cleaving Shot (or you can just use Wide Sweep of course). Other classes support Cleaving (and Intimidating) better.

 

[Rhobar121]

At the beginning, you just need cleaving finish, which you achieve in the prologue.
At this level, you don't have a better choice anyway.
Up to level 10, there aren't many sensible rogue talents you want to pick anyway.
You can unlock outflank at level 6, shatter defenses at level 8 at the earliest.
Until then, you have one extra feat that you can spend on anything.
After level 8, good feats start to end and you still have at least 6 feats (basic only) to spend.
From this you would definitely take improve initiative and improve critical.
Alternatively, you might want dreadful carnage, the problem is that it requires level 15 where by this point one of your characters should already have a frightful aspect.

Only if you play Human (which is it's own cost on a class that already gets a ton of skill points) and take Power Attack and Cleave then Cleaving Finish at lvl 3, which means you're not taking Focus there, which means you're blowing your first Rogue Talent on it if you want Outflank and Shatter on time. You're a 3/4 class with the Power Attack malus and no way to boost AB if you go that way. Vital Strike/Big Sneak Dice can mean not needing Power Attack at all which frees up a lot of room to take advantage of the other strengths of the class (and climb out of the hole of your low AB).

Exotic Fauchard is something you could take at lvl 1 to widen your crit range (though that wastes Martial) and/or you can pick up Blind Fight/Improved Initiative upfront to benefit from them the whole game (gaze immunity for Market Square Nabasu Fight, reroll vs tough foes with Concealment). If you're going to be covering Stealth for the party will need Skill Focus to pass checks on overland map in ch 3 where you really don't want to get ambushed.

A lot of good options there if you don't burn all your Feats on AoE that isn't that important if you've got an Archer or two with Cleaving Shot (or you can just use Wide Sweep of course). Other classes support Cleaving (and Intimidating) better.

Unlike kingsmaker in wotr, I've never used blind fight. The only enemy I regretted about it were retrievers, but nothing that can't be solved with a skeleton army (it's a pity that the AI is worse than in BG2).

Rowdy is the only archetype that gets 3 skill points per level at 10 int.

Outflank should be unlocked at level 6 which means that if you don't spend your rogue talent you won't be able to choose it up to level 7 which is a big loss.

The problem with weapon focus is that when you should unlock it depends on the weapon you choose. There is no point in taking it that fast if you don't find any weapons up to level 4-5.
No matter what weapon you choose, at the very beginning you will most likely be using a glaive, which automatically makes you have +1 from the book.

If you are going str you are unlikely to get enough stealth to actually make a difference.
Even so, you have other characters that can do this, if you choose Lann, the problem solves itself. It is worse with Wenduag.
Recently, I liked giving her lvls in a wandering markman.
I know that it is quite suboptimal, but i really dont like basic fighter. It makes the early game much easier.
Unfortunately her wisdom, aligment and deity narrows down meaningful choices quite a lot.

 

[Yosharian]

By the way, does anyone have an idea why after selecting the 1 level of the beast rider for Seelah I could have lvl up her pet to the 3rd level?
Paladin levels should not add up until she reaches level 5 in class.

There is some kind of bug with classes that get delayed pet levels. I'm not sure why, but they seem to be granting pet levels even when they shouldn't. For example, Ranger grants +1 pet level at 1st level.

 

[Rhobar121]

By the way, does anyone have an idea why after selecting the 1 level of the beast rider for Seelah I could have lvl up her pet to the 3rd level?
Paladin levels should not add up until she reaches level 5 in class.

There is some kind of bug with classes that get delayed pet levels. I'm not sure why, but they seem to be granting pet levels even when they shouldn't. For example, Ranger grants +1 pet level at 1st level.

Good to know. After reaching level 4, the pet has not changed properly.
Maybe in a year this game will finally be patched, because I don't remember this bug the first time I played.

 

[Parabalus]

Vital strike + cleaving finish is still broken. It shouldn't work that way.

I mean by that time of the game if you've burned six Feats and achieved a crit why not? It's not like there aren't other ways to do big AoE damage. If you don't code it that way all the Powergamer tards are going to talk themselves into using Wide Sweep with Mythic Trick Perception or whatever and scaring all the noobs away from anything else.

In reality it's not like there's a pressing need to kill all Babau Eliminators before they can act, so you can make nice pictures either way but once you take care of the real threats Eliminators can be taken out at leisure.

Not sure Wide Sweep is even that good later on - Legendary Proportions with reach weapons covers a much bigger radius.

You can crit for over 2k easily and instaclear screens.

 

[Desiderius]

Vital strike + cleaving finish is still broken. It shouldn't work that way.

I mean by that time of the game if you've burned six Feats and achieved a crit why not? It's not like there aren't other ways to do big AoE damage. If you don't code it that way all the Powergamer tards are going to talk themselves into using Wide Sweep with Mythic Trick Perception or whatever and scaring all the noobs away from anything else.

In reality it's not like there's a pressing need to kill all Babau Eliminators before they can act, so you can make nice pictures either way but once you take care of the real threats Eliminators can be taken out at leisure.

Not sure Wide Sweep is even that good later on - Legendary Proportions with reach weapons covers a much bigger radius.

You can crit for over 2k easily and instaclear screens.

If you kill the target, but aren’t you targeting the boss anyway and if you’ve killed him you’ve already accomplished the (by far) hardest part?

Otherwise I don’t understand bringing a big hitter who isn’t even attacking the most dangerous target.

 

[Desiderius]

At the beginning, you just need cleaving finish, which you achieve in the prologue.
At this level, you don't have a better choice anyway.
Up to level 10, there aren't many sensible rogue talents you want to pick anyway.
You can unlock outflank at level 6, shatter defenses at level 8 at the earliest.
Until then, you have one extra feat that you can spend on anything.
After level 8, good feats start to end and you still have at least 6 feats (basic only) to spend.
From this you would definitely take improve initiative and improve critical.
Alternatively, you might want dreadful carnage, the problem is that it requires level 15 where by this point one of your characters should already have a frightful aspect.

Only if you play Human (which is it's own cost on a class that already gets a ton of skill points) and take Power Attack and Cleave then Cleaving Finish at lvl 3, which means you're not taking Focus there, which means you're blowing your first Rogue Talent on it if you want Outflank and Shatter on time. You're a 3/4 class with the Power Attack malus and no way to boost AB if you go that way. Vital Strike/Big Sneak Dice can mean not needing Power Attack at all which frees up a lot of room to take advantage of the other strengths of the class (and climb out of the hole of your low AB).

Exotic Fauchard is something you could take at lvl 1 to widen your crit range (though that wastes Martial) and/or you can pick up Blind Fight/Improved Initiative upfront to benefit from them the whole game (gaze immunity for Market Square Nabasu Fight, reroll vs tough foes with Concealment). If you're going to be covering Stealth for the party will need Skill Focus to pass checks on overland map in ch 3 where you really don't want to get ambushed.

A lot of good options there if you don't burn all your Feats on AoE that isn't that important if you've got an Archer or two with Cleaving Shot (or you can just use Wide Sweep of course). Other classes support Cleaving (and Intimidating) better.

Unlike kingsmaker in wotr, I've never used blind fight. The only enemy I regretted about it were retrievers, but nothing that can't be solved with a skeleton army (it's a pity that the AI is worse than in BG2).

Rowdy is the only archetype that gets 3 skill points per level at 10 int.

Outflank should be unlocked at level 6 which means that if you don't spend your rogue talent you won't be able to choose it up to level 7 which is a big loss.

The problem with weapon focus is that when you should unlock it depends on the weapon you choose. There is no point in taking it that fast if you don't find any weapons up to level 4-5.
No matter what weapon you choose, at the very beginning you will most likely be using a glaive, which automatically makes you have +1 from the book.

If you are going str you are unlikely to get enough stealth to actually make a difference.
Even so, you have other characters that can do this, if you choose Lann, the problem solves itself. It is worse with Wenduag.
Recently, I liked giving her lvls in a wandering markman.
I know that it is quite suboptimal, but i really dont like basic fighter. It makes the early game much easier.
Unfortunately her wisdom, aligment and deity narrows down meaningful choices quite a lot.

I’m just saying that Rogue has a lot going on and if you’re saying “there’s no good choices” you’re missing a good bit. If I’m taking Rowdy I want to be Vital Striking and taking advantage of those other things. I’d choose a class with higher AB and more support (Combat Style/Bonus Feats) if I want to Cleave.

Playing Primalist Demon right now and that’s a better Cleaver even if you can get some big AoE late with Rowdy *if you crit and kill your target* which is a big if.

 

[Rhobar121]

At the beginning, you just need cleaving finish, which you achieve in the prologue.
At this level, you don't have a better choice anyway.
Up to level 10, there aren't many sensible rogue talents you want to pick anyway.
You can unlock outflank at level 6, shatter defenses at level 8 at the earliest.
Until then, you have one extra feat that you can spend on anything.
After level 8, good feats start to end and you still have at least 6 feats (basic only) to spend.
From this you would definitely take improve initiative and improve critical.
Alternatively, you might want dreadful carnage, the problem is that it requires level 15 where by this point one of your characters should already have a frightful aspect.

Only if you play Human (which is it's own cost on a class that already gets a ton of skill points) and take Power Attack and Cleave then Cleaving Finish at lvl 3, which means you're not taking Focus there, which means you're blowing your first Rogue Talent on it if you want Outflank and Shatter on time. You're a 3/4 class with the Power Attack malus and no way to boost AB if you go that way. Vital Strike/Big Sneak Dice can mean not needing Power Attack at all which frees up a lot of room to take advantage of the other strengths of the class (and climb out of the hole of your low AB).

Exotic Fauchard is something you could take at lvl 1 to widen your crit range (though that wastes Martial) and/or you can pick up Blind Fight/Improved Initiative upfront to benefit from them the whole game (gaze immunity for Market Square Nabasu Fight, reroll vs tough foes with Concealment). If you're going to be covering Stealth for the party will need Skill Focus to pass checks on overland map in ch 3 where you really don't want to get ambushed.

A lot of good options there if you don't burn all your Feats on AoE that isn't that important if you've got an Archer or two with Cleaving Shot (or you can just use Wide Sweep of course). Other classes support Cleaving (and Intimidating) better.

Unlike kingsmaker in wotr, I've never used blind fight. The only enemy I regretted about it were retrievers, but nothing that can't be solved with a skeleton army (it's a pity that the AI is worse than in BG2).

Rowdy is the only archetype that gets 3 skill points per level at 10 int.

Outflank should be unlocked at level 6 which means that if you don't spend your rogue talent you won't be able to choose it up to level 7 which is a big loss.

The problem with weapon focus is that when you should unlock it depends on the weapon you choose. There is no point in taking it that fast if you don't find any weapons up to level 4-5.
No matter what weapon you choose, at the very beginning you will most likely be using a glaive, which automatically makes you have +1 from the book.

If you are going str you are unlikely to get enough stealth to actually make a difference.
Even so, you have other characters that can do this, if you choose Lann, the problem solves itself. It is worse with Wenduag.
Recently, I liked giving her lvls in a wandering markman.
I know that it is quite suboptimal, but i really dont like basic fighter. It makes the early game much easier.
Unfortunately her wisdom, aligment and deity narrows down meaningful choices quite a lot.

I’m just saying that Rogue has a lot going on and if you’re saying “there’s no good choices” you’re missing a good bit. If I’m taking Rowdy I want to be Vital Striking and taking advantage of those other things. I’d choose a class with higher AB and more support (Combat Style/Bonus Feats) if I want to Cleave.

Playing Primalist Demon right now and that’s a better Cleaver even if you can get some big crits late with Rowdy *if you crit and kill your target* which is a big if.

It would be easier to get along if you listed things that are profitable in your opinion before level 10.
Honestly, I don't see too many choices that would be worth sacrificing the extra power early in the game.

Attack isnt big a problem if you have Sosiel in your team. Madness + Comunity + Nobility Domain gives you a enough boost that you will probably hit anyway.
In addition, spells like greater invisibility (at least until the middle of the game) also help