Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[LannTheStupid]

So, since Elemental barrage is kill, what do with melee Camelia?

Put her on the street, come back in the morning to collect the money.

Or steaks.

Here:

View attachment 30293

You can see I bought Clerics, rolled for new selection and second stack of Clerics was still cheap (if it comes up on second roll). During ch2 it always comes up because it's all you have. Bought Spears for second army since also Melee General.

Why are you buying clerics? What do they do beside several heals?

 

[Desiderius]

Here:

View attachment 30293

You can see I bought Clerics, rolled for new selection and second stack of Clerics was still cheap (if it comes up on second roll). During ch2 it always comes up because it's all you have. Bought Spears for second army since also Melee General.

Why are you buying clerics? What do they do beside several heals?

Swift self-heal plus seems like a taunt since stuff likes to attack them. Melee general doesn’t get heal until lvl 8 so they’re pretty important.

But main thing is that they’re very resilient and have Smite to bypass DR.

 

[Yosharian]

+72 Stealth & Greater Invisibility & Mind Blank goes a long way IMO

 

[Yosharian]

Um so what's a good Aeon build

 

[Desiderius]

Um so what's a good Aeon build

Student of Stone and Reformed Fiend were pretty fun. Bane triggers three times on Ki ability Scorching Ray (Standard Action) or infinite with Flurry.

TTT fixes the AB/dam bonus scaling on Reformed Fiend and makes the DR into DR/Good. Cleaving Bane is nice as is Divine Favor + Rage + full BAB.

 

[Parabalus]

Vital strike + cleaving finish is still broken. It shouldn't work that way.

I mean by that time of the game if you've burned six Feats and achieved a crit why not? It's not like there aren't other ways to do big AoE damage. If you don't code it that way all the Powergamer tards are going to talk themselves into using Wide Sweep with Mythic Trick Perception or whatever and scaring all the noobs away from anything else.

In reality it's not like there's a pressing need to kill all Babau Eliminators before they can act, so you can make nice pictures either way but once you take care of the real threats Eliminators can be taken out at leisure.

Not sure Wide Sweep is even that good later on - Legendary Proportions with reach weapons covers a much bigger radius.

You can crit for over 2k easily and instaclear screens.

If you kill the target, but aren’t you targeting the boss anyway and if you’ve killed him you’ve already accomplished the (by far) hardest part?

Otherwise I don’t understand bringing a big hitter who isn’t even attacking the most dangerous target.

Depends on the boss fight, but if you pop a random mook you will pop most mooks and then cleave the boss.

Carnage+Thug triggers and any alive mooks start trigger AoO storms, which again cleave on the boss.

It might not be optimal but it's extremely fun, that counts too.

 

[Desiderius]

At the beginning, you just need cleaving finish, which you achieve in the prologue.
At this level, you don't have a better choice anyway.
Up to level 10, there aren't many sensible rogue talents you want to pick anyway.
You can unlock outflank at level 6, shatter defenses at level 8 at the earliest.
Until then, you have one extra feat that you can spend on anything.
After level 8, good feats start to end and you still have at least 6 feats (basic only) to spend.
From this you would definitely take improve initiative and improve critical.
Alternatively, you might want dreadful carnage, the problem is that it requires level 15 where by this point one of your characters should already have a frightful aspect.

Only if you play Human (which is it's own cost on a class that already gets a ton of skill points) and take Power Attack and Cleave then Cleaving Finish at lvl 3, which means you're not taking Focus there, which means you're blowing your first Rogue Talent on it if you want Outflank and Shatter on time. You're a 3/4 class with the Power Attack malus and no way to boost AB if you go that way. Vital Strike/Big Sneak Dice can mean not needing Power Attack at all which frees up a lot of room to take advantage of the other strengths of the class (and climb out of the hole of your low AB).

Exotic Fauchard is something you could take at lvl 1 to widen your crit range (though that wastes Martial) and/or you can pick up Blind Fight/Improved Initiative upfront to benefit from them the whole game (gaze immunity for Market Square Nabasu Fight, reroll vs tough foes with Concealment). If you're going to be covering Stealth for the party will need Skill Focus to pass checks on overland map in ch 3 where you really don't want to get ambushed.

A lot of good options there if you don't burn all your Feats on AoE that isn't that important if you've got an Archer or two with Cleaving Shot (or you can just use Wide Sweep of course). Other classes support Cleaving (and Intimidating) better.

Unlike kingsmaker in wotr, I've never used blind fight. The only enemy I regretted about it were retrievers, but nothing that can't be solved with a skeleton army (it's a pity that the AI is worse than in BG2).

Rowdy is the only archetype that gets 3 skill points per level at 10 int.

Outflank should be unlocked at level 6 which means that if you don't spend your rogue talent you won't be able to choose it up to level 7 which is a big loss.

The problem with weapon focus is that when you should unlock it depends on the weapon you choose. There is no point in taking it that fast if you don't find any weapons up to level 4-5.
No matter what weapon you choose, at the very beginning you will most likely be using a glaive, which automatically makes you have +1 from the book.

If you are going str you are unlikely to get enough stealth to actually make a difference.
Even so, you have other characters that can do this, if you choose Lann, the problem solves itself. It is worse with Wenduag.
Recently, I liked giving her lvls in a wandering markman.
I know that it is quite suboptimal, but i really dont like basic fighter. It makes the early game much easier.
Unfortunately her wisdom, aligment and deity narrows down meaningful choices quite a lot.

I’m just saying that Rogue has a lot going on and if you’re saying “there’s no good choices” you’re missing a good bit. If I’m taking Rowdy I want to be Vital Striking and taking advantage of those other things. I’d choose a class with higher AB and more support (Combat Style/Bonus Feats) if I want to Cleave.

Playing Primalist Demon right now and that’s a better Cleaver even if you can get some big crits late with Rowdy *if you crit and kill your target* which is a big if.

It would be easier to get along if you listed things that are profitable in your opinion before level 10.
Honestly, I don't see too many choices that would be worth sacrificing the extra power early in the game.

Attack isnt big a problem if you have Sosiel in your team. Madness + Comunity + Nobility Domain gives you a enough boost that you will probably hit anyway.
In addition, spells like greater invisibility (at least until the middle of the game) also help

That’s cool, I’ll take a look tonight. Seems like you’re just throwing together a bunch of memes that aren’t going to be very good thru the bulk of the game but can generate some impressive pics late.

Which is cool and all but no reason to nerf the game.

 

[Desiderius]

Rowdy/Thug multiclass would indeed be impressive. Haven’t seen anyone pull that one off yet.

 

[The_Mask]

Um so what's a good Aeon build

Judge or Monk work well.

I tried a Student of Stone, and it was fun, but until you get The CloakTM your life is a bit challenging because of low mobility.

Not much reactivity if you pick Irori, but it fits character-wise.

Aeon is a lot of fun with pretty much anything.

 

[LannTheStupid]

How badly would I butcher Regill if I want him to cast Bless Weapon? First, 2 additional levels of Hellknight for the Glory Domain, and then some divine caster with full BAB - I guess it's only Ranger. Freebooter maybe? Until he gets Bless Weapon. And then probably Armiger for feats.

I want to get rid of Seelah, but would like to keep Bless Weapon on hand.

 

[The_Mask]

I haven't found Bless Weapon to be essential.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I haven't found Bless Weapon to be essential.

Autoconfirm of crits is kind of nice.

 

[Rhobar121]

At the beginning, you just need cleaving finish, which you achieve in the prologue.
At this level, you don't have a better choice anyway.
Up to level 10, there aren't many sensible rogue talents you want to pick anyway.
You can unlock outflank at level 6, shatter defenses at level 8 at the earliest.
Until then, you have one extra feat that you can spend on anything.
After level 8, good feats start to end and you still have at least 6 feats (basic only) to spend.
From this you would definitely take improve initiative and improve critical.
Alternatively, you might want dreadful carnage, the problem is that it requires level 15 where by this point one of your characters should already have a frightful aspect.

Only if you play Human (which is it's own cost on a class that already gets a ton of skill points) and take Power Attack and Cleave then Cleaving Finish at lvl 3, which means you're not taking Focus there, which means you're blowing your first Rogue Talent on it if you want Outflank and Shatter on time. You're a 3/4 class with the Power Attack malus and no way to boost AB if you go that way. Vital Strike/Big Sneak Dice can mean not needing Power Attack at all which frees up a lot of room to take advantage of the other strengths of the class (and climb out of the hole of your low AB).

Exotic Fauchard is something you could take at lvl 1 to widen your crit range (though that wastes Martial) and/or you can pick up Blind Fight/Improved Initiative upfront to benefit from them the whole game (gaze immunity for Market Square Nabasu Fight, reroll vs tough foes with Concealment). If you're going to be covering Stealth for the party will need Skill Focus to pass checks on overland map in ch 3 where you really don't want to get ambushed.

A lot of good options there if you don't burn all your Feats on AoE that isn't that important if you've got an Archer or two with Cleaving Shot (or you can just use Wide Sweep of course). Other classes support Cleaving (and Intimidating) better.

Unlike kingsmaker in wotr, I've never used blind fight. The only enemy I regretted about it were retrievers, but nothing that can't be solved with a skeleton army (it's a pity that the AI is worse than in BG2).

Rowdy is the only archetype that gets 3 skill points per level at 10 int.

Outflank should be unlocked at level 6 which means that if you don't spend your rogue talent you won't be able to choose it up to level 7 which is a big loss.

The problem with weapon focus is that when you should unlock it depends on the weapon you choose. There is no point in taking it that fast if you don't find any weapons up to level 4-5.
No matter what weapon you choose, at the very beginning you will most likely be using a glaive, which automatically makes you have +1 from the book.

If you are going str you are unlikely to get enough stealth to actually make a difference.
Even so, you have other characters that can do this, if you choose Lann, the problem solves itself. It is worse with Wenduag.
Recently, I liked giving her lvls in a wandering markman.
I know that it is quite suboptimal, but i really dont like basic fighter. It makes the early game much easier.
Unfortunately her wisdom, aligment and deity narrows down meaningful choices quite a lot.

I’m just saying that Rogue has a lot going on and if you’re saying “there’s no good choices” you’re missing a good bit. If I’m taking Rowdy I want to be Vital Striking and taking advantage of those other things. I’d choose a class with higher AB and more support (Combat Style/Bonus Feats) if I want to Cleave.

Playing Primalist Demon right now and that’s a better Cleaver even if you can get some big crits late with Rowdy *if you crit and kill your target* which is a big if.

It would be easier to get along if you listed things that are profitable in your opinion before level 10.
Honestly, I don't see too many choices that would be worth sacrificing the extra power early in the game.

Attack isnt big a problem if you have Sosiel in your team. Madness + Comunity + Nobility Domain gives you a enough boost that you will probably hit anyway.
In addition, spells like greater invisibility (at least until the middle of the game) also help

That’s cool, I’ll take a look tonight. Seems like you’re just throwing together a bunch of memes that aren’t going to be very good thru the bulk of the game but can generate some impressive pics late.

Which is cool and all but no reason to nerf the game.

What? You will get 2/3 in the second act (you will get the last one at the end of Drezen, so it may not count).
Just don't tell me that in your opinion they are pointless because it is not even logical anymore. The community domain itself is a virtually free huge attack bonus with no downsides.
Madness is a bit more expensive, but it's still profitable.
Greater invisibility is an instant win during most of the fights in Chapter 2.

 

[ga♥]

I haven't found Bless Weapon to be essential.

Autoconfirm of crits is kind of nice.

Regil could only cast 1 bless weapon though.

 

[ga♥]

* - Daeran's Wolf from Second Spirit Nature does a lot. Seelah's Smite/Mark is extra damage/lvl, Lann/Wend do a ton, Wolj with Reduce/Vitals, Sosiel with Frightful + Advantage, who isn't doing damage?

Daeran reason to exist is as a sacrifice to the Other.

 

[Desiderius]

You clowns have no idea:



Daeran's Wolf is dominating, with Daeran adding on Prayers, Barkskins, high DC Archon's, Demoralizes, Sound Bursts, Cave Fangs (!), Edges/Wards, bigger Channels (CHR-based), more casts, and even some Rapier crits to trigger Outflank.

Unbelievable action econ. Friend to Animals alone is better than Animal Domain.

 

[Desiderius]

What? You will get 2/3 in the second act (you will get the last one at the end of Drezen, so it may not count).
Just don't tell me that in your opinion they are pointless because it is not even logical anymore. The community domain itself is a virtually free huge attack bonus with no downsides.
Madness is a bit more expensive, but it's still profitable.
Greater invisibility is an instant win during most of the fights in Chapter 2.

I'll walk you through it. Looking at Rowdy right now. Then we'll get to Sos. Opportunity cost is a (massive) thing, especially on Sos who already has three good action econs but needs a lot of Mythic help to turn them on. Can get Community/Madness on Lann if you want them I guess.

How badly would I butcher Regill if I want him to cast Bless Weapon? First, 2 additional levels of Hellknight for the Glory Domain, and then some divine caster with full BAB - I guess it's only Ranger. Freebooter maybe? Until he gets Bless Weapon. And then probably Armiger for feats.

I want to get rid of Seelah, but would like to keep Bless Weapon on hand.

Just let Seelah Scribe them if you leave her home. You'll miss Mark and Greater Fear Aura more. And now she can get +5 Tower at Grotto.

 

[Desiderius]

How badly would I butcher Regill if I want him to cast Bless Weapon? First, 2 additional levels of Hellknight for the Glory Domain, and then some divine caster with full BAB - I guess it's only Ranger. Freebooter maybe? Until he gets Bless Weapon. And then probably Armiger for feats.

I want to get rid of Seelah, but would like to keep Bless Weapon on hand.

Just let Seelah Scribe them if you leave her home. You'll miss Mark and Greater Fear Aura more.

 

[Rhobar121]

Mercy, how did the owlcat ruin the next mission from act1? How is this even possible?
Enemies don't react after using one of the columns.

 

[Desiderius]

If you're Stealthed you can usually get them both off without alerting them, but I've never seen them standing still while you're standing right there.

 

[Rhobar121]

If you're Stealthed you can usually get them both off without alerting them, but I've never seen them standing still while you're standing right there.

Somehow the use of any column causes enemies to become untargetable,
They don't attack, but you can't do anything to them either. This is a weird bug.
The only option is to kill them without a column.

 

[LannTheStupid]

A commentary about clean install without any mods, including the mod manager. No Toy Box and so on, even for "enabling achievements" and other crap. And retrying the Tower of Estrod again with the clean install.

Seriously, people whose ancestors had invented computer science don't understand how programs - and mods - work.

 

[Rhobar121]

A commentary about clean install without any mods, including the mod manager. No Toy Box and so on, even for "enabling achievements" and other crap. And retrying the Tower of Estrod again with the clean install.

Seriously, people whose ancestors had invented computer science don't understand how programs - and mods - work.

Really? So you're saying it's the mods' fault, not the fact that in Owlcat the main employment criterion is being incompetent?

 

[Yosharian]

Um so what's a good Aeon build

Judge or Monk work well.

I tried a Student of Stone, and it was fun, but until you get The CloakTM your life is a bit challenging because of low mobility.

Not much reactivity if you pick Irori, but it fits character-wise.

Aeon is a lot of fun with pretty much anything.

I was thinking of a party concept where nobody uses any buffs, dispel everything everywhere with gaze or whatever the ability is, and also use the Mythic magic immunity thingy.

Just not sure how to make it actually playable

 

[Desiderius]

A commentary about clean install without any mods, including the mod manager. No Toy Box and so on, even for "enabling achievements" and other crap. And retrying the Tower of Estrod again with the clean install.

Seriously, people whose ancestors had invented computer science don't understand how programs - and mods - work.

Really? So you're saying it's the mods' fault, not the fact that in Owlcat the main employment criterion is being incompetent?

It's probably the mod's fault. I've never seen this and it was smooth last week.