Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Daidre]

@Daidre back to the ankle-biting. That didn't take long.

So much blind ignorance, so little time.

 

[Rhobar121]

Lol, Blind Fight is not useless.

Gaze Immunity is great the whole game (Death Ward is too situational to keep up all the time, especially in a setting where Crusader’s Edge is so good, and you don't in fact have access to it when you fight the first Nabasu) and True Seeing, Communal* comes after fighting quite a few tough opponents who make use of Concealment. Unless you’ve got access to Faerie Fire you should already be familiar with those. The whole map on Lost Chapel has Blur!

So much endgame theorycrafting, so little attention to what you’re actually fighting and what are the main threats. If you’re playing DLC whatever but main campaign you spend a lot of time without TS, Communal. It’s not crazy to pick up a Feat that’s great until then and is undispellable and works even when ambushed.

* - even True Seeing, non-Communal doesn't unlock until lvl 9 by which time you've already faced several foes with Concealment. Even at lvl 9 it's hard to justify burning a very scarce level 5 slot (Daeran and Ember don't even have one yet) on a single-target situational buff. Concealment can be handled by bringing a class with Faerie Fire (Pranked Beneficial Curse on Daeran gets it) but outside that it will be late ch 3 before you can count on having TS, Communal up, and even there it can burn through your Diamond Dust. Convenience and resilience are a thing. I've taken Fast Stealth and liked it. Blind Fight works that way on both ends.

Death ward is one of the most useful spells in the game. In the case of Nabasu you have to use it anyway because blind fight does not protect you from enervation, not to mention that it is practically required when fighting the undead.

Sosiel's domains are pretty lame (luck might be pretty good, but there are better alternatives).
Why wouldn't I choose the best domains as the first 2-3 mythic powers?
There aren't many interesting mythic feats for Sosiel anyway, and since he uses glaive, he doesn't need a last stand that much.
Of course, I could choose an abundant casting, but the profit is still much smaller than the bonuses you get from domains.
I can also use him as a miserable melee. To be useful in any way, he needs a lot of buffs, most of which last only 1 rounds / lvl.

Why wouldn't I choose +7 on all saves on level 8 attack for party, pets and summon instead? This is almost 1/3 or 1/4 of what most characters can achieve at this level.
This buff is invaluable with virtually every boss in this game, and you can get it very early in the game.
You're not going to say that a few extra buff slots for one character are worth more than a huge buff for everyone.
The casting time doesn't matter, it might as well be 10 turns because 99% of the time you use it before the fight anyway.

Madness domain is also very powerful.
At level 8, you can grant any character +4 to attack for a total of 27 rounds per day.
In addition, the aura of madness is also quite strong.

There is no late game build here, but if you want, find me another character who at 20 lvl is able to increase attack by 24+ at such a low cost.
In the early game, it is better to sacrifice one character's individual offensive abilities to strengthen the rest of the party.
Unless you like having to hit enemies with less than 25% chance. The demondend you meet in act 2 has about 50 ac and if I remember correctly over 40+ touch ac.

 

[Haplo]

Personally I like both Good and Luck domains on Sosiel.
Granted, Madness is better still... and I guess Community also - the entire 1 use you get between rests.

But I'm getting a lot of mileage from Good and Luck. The extra powers are nice too: Good lets you make someone's weapon Holy for a couple of rounds, while Luck will allow Sos not suck terribly at combat in fights when he uses it.

 

[Desiderius]

@Daidre back to the ankle-biting. That didn't take long.

So much blind ignorance, so little time.

Yes, if all you’re looking at when it comes to Armor is AC then you’re (blindly) ignoring what are often the most important factors.

Don’t do that.

This is how people end up falling for the armorless fallacy.

 

[Rhobar121]

The difference between light and medium armor is literally 2 AC

So much blind ignorance, so little time. If you have infinite DEX it's often less than that. But you don't. And you want to stay Enlarged to get the multiplying dice bigger on VS. What matters most tho is what bonuses it opens up and what fits with rest of team. Chainmail of Comradery is 9 AC with 4 available DEX net 13 while Lady Callandria is 6/6, but if you're Enlarged you're probably not hitting the 6 DEX and Comradery tacks on another 4 damage with Outflank. Since you're running Sos and Sos has Heavy now you may not have a great home for Comradery.

Stronger enemies are who you're there to one-shot, but as a Light Class with no defensive spells you've got regular mobs to worry about and 2 AC (or more see above) can make a big difference there. If you're killing the boss with ICF then that takes care of that granted but see:

View attachment 30325

Sometimes the dorks get you before you can get them.

Combat Reflexes is very good, I would personally choose it as a second or third rogue talent.

Improved Initiative is always good, you still have so many free feats that you'll be able to pick it up early anyway.

TTT can only burn one Rogue Talent on Combat Trick and Shatter at 8 is a good place for that. If I'm playing a Rogue MC I want to take Rogue stuff O/W I'd just play Fighter and hit things a helluva lot easier.

Yes, you are right that you've got free Feats. Comes down to whether you want Intimidate package, Mounted package (with Bismuth), Rogue enhancers, or ICF package. Point being to get ICF package you're giving up the others until much later when they're less impactful.

Shake it Off is pretty good only you don't need it right at the start of the game. You have to select it on several characters, which means that you have to give up more important talents such as Slashing Grace on Camelia.

I've only been using it with Tactician. It is good but kind of boring and exactly characters like Sos and Cam are already tight on Feats.

All skill focus stuff is good, it just doesn't give your character any meaningful combat bonus.
Persuasion would be cool if you could unlock dreadful carnage at level 10, but it comes too late to be useful.
This is not a kingsmaker where having high persuasion on the main character was practically required.
Using dazzing display or demoralize is completely unworthy on a non-charisma main character.
Seelah would be better if you want to use it.

Rogue doesn't have things that give Combat bonuses anyway (weakness of the class) and covering your skills can change the game in ways that go beyond combat (strength of the class).

MC Persuasion comes up a good bit, especially in Mythic quests, but main thing is setting up Shatter on bosses, and you can get there with something like Pitborn Rowdy with Intimidating Prowess. No reason you can't have decent CHR on your MC. What's unworthy about letting characters with better AC/summons grab aggro first turn while you Demoralize boss to set up big VS vs flat-foot second round?* I still use Dazzling sometimes on my Primalist MC to set up Nenio's Illusion AoEs and help Archon's beat saves too. Effectively +2 AC for team.

Seelah has much higher AC (or has a Mount) so wants to get in there to grab that aggro. She doesn't have any bonuses for Persuasion and can't really afford the Feats to enhance it. I give her UMD instead for Image Wand/Expeditious scrolls/etc...

By the way, scare is suspiciously effective against a vescavor, even without investing in necromancy it almost always works for a swarm.

Scare tops out at 5 HD. Great vs Swarms and regular Gargs, not so much bosses. Can even use Cause Fear as well. Cam gets both.

* - this is how I used Freebooter Amiri (with Freebooter's Bane) to keep her from getting ganked.

First of all, I play the base game so I don't care about TT.
This means you can choose an outflank for level 6, shatter for level 8 and whatever else you want.

The base bonus of most light armors is 4 in the case of mediums it is mostly 6, so it's a difference of +2. The dex bonus doesn't really matter here as your dex will most likely be bad enough that you most likely won't get more than 1/2 + for most of the game.
I admit that you have a bit more choice of medium armor at the beginning of the game (which I forgot). Still, your main defense won't be AC, but spells like blur or greater invisibility.

Instead of wasting points on charisma, you might as well achieve 18/14/14/10/10/8 or 17/14/14/10/14/8 (no race bonuses).
Alternatively, you can move the point from wisdom elsewhere.
The first version is definitely better for the first 2 acts.
The point is that charisma is a much worse choice than the rest of the stats.
You can choose an int for more points (basically you only get 3), or wisdom which gives you better saves and also enhances perception which is by far the most important skill in the game. The rogue is best suited for it because of trapfinding.

If you want, you can demoralize while on horseback.
The enemy usually attacks the first visible target anyway.

The whole point of the archetype is to deal as much damage as possible with a vital strike. Every round you don't do it is a waste, especially since you'll be doing the highest damage at the start of the game.
Your demoralize potential will be lower.

You can buy a ring that gives you scare and fear.
Scare is only a level 2 spell that is useful for most of act 2.

 

[Desiderius]

The second abilities on both Luck and Good Domain get extra activations with lvl. Luck gets a second at lvl 12 and a third at 18, Good gets a second at 12, third at 16, fourth at 20. Sure about Luck, need to make sure on Good.

They last lvl/2 rounds so more than a couple.

Just wish it gave advantage on Dispel checks.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah I like the WIS to Persuasion background for that reason, and it also lets you cover Religion Lore if you take Daeran instead of Sos. Lead Blades Oread works well with this if you can manage the speed.

Medium Prof is an example of something you *might* want depending on party makeup. Light actually gives you more options early but by midgame some good Mediums start showing up too.

You can get your AC high enough to avoid regular mobs without relying on Illusion, which is expensive to keep up until endgame. I just keep getting the idea you’re thinking about lvl 16 or whatever but most of the game takes place before then.

 

[Rhobar121]

Yeah I like the WIS to Persuasion background for that reason, and it also lets you cover Religion Lore if you take Daeran instead of Sos. Lead Blades Oread works well with this if you can manage the speed.

Medium Prof is an example of something you *might* want depending on party makeup. Light actually gives you more options early but by midgame some good Mediums start showing up too.

You can get your AC high enough to avoid regular mobs without relying on Illusion, which is expensive to keep up until endgame. I just keep getting the idea you’re thinking about lvl 16 or whatever but most of the game takes place before then.

Because of how aggro works in this game, normal mobs are rarely a problem (at least if they don't respawn in the middle of the fight).
In act 2, if you can really rely on AC on characters that do not accumulate it in any way in the case of regular gargoyles. In the case of half-fiend AC on characters with low dex, a lot will not help you, especially if you play a good character (at least without protective luck).
From what I can remember, they should have over 50% chance of hitting with smite good (probably much more). Unfortunately i dont have save to test it.
Spells like blur, displacement and invisibility really do a good job.

 

[Desiderius]

Death ward is one of the most useful spells in the game. In the case of Nabasu you have to use it anyway because blind fight does not protect you from enervation, not to mention that it is practically required when fighting the undead.

Enervation?



Blind Fight for the Gaze, Bit of Luck Mythic ability (*really* good for Rogues with no casting), and Nabasus are no problem. This was Instinctual Warrior that got Blind Fight for free but I liked it so much I'm inclined to try it out when I've got some leeway on Feats going forward.

I like to put Death Ward on my tankiest character (can use the item) then send in a pet to flank (they regenerate drained levels for free). With BF and Bit of Luck can send MC in too worry-free. Death Ward is very situational so if you've got a lot of rests to play with (and a non-spontaneous caster) sure fire away but otherwise the opportunity cost is high when Edge is so good. Divine Power is really good on Sos too as is Holy Smite against Demons.

What Undead? One optional Wight in ch1, a couple Shadows, then eventually Bodak cave? Smilos and Ghouls don't drain. Death Ward is good for other things too:



But again ideally my tank is eating those not my Striker.

If you want, you can demoralize while on horseback.
The enemy usually attacks the first visible target anyway.

The whole point of the archetype is to deal as much damage as possible with a vital strike. Every round you don't do it is a waste, especially since you'll be doing the highest damage at the start of the game.
Your demoralize potential will be lower.

You can buy a ring that gives you scare and fear.
Scare is only a level 2 spell that is useful for most of act 2.

Seelah can, but she won't be high enough to get bosses while Pitborn with Intimidating Prowess will. I'm not using Mounted Seelah but if I were I'd want her attacking with Smite and her Horse since she'll have so much higher AB early.

Doesn't matter how much damage you can hypothetically do if you're not landing your hits or dying first. The point of the archetype is to trade some Rogue utility to do a shit ton of damage with the abilities the archetype comes with. That has no impact on whether abilities that give you additional damage are good vs the alternatives or whether burning a turn whiffing is better than setting up a good turn with a higher chance to land and not get ganked.

Ring gives Ember those spells but she'd Good too, Ring isn't cheap, and I rarely have room for her vs Gargs. As I said they're perfect for Cam (since I've got Barkskins from Daeran).

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Wait, Aeon uses CHA as a casting stat? What in the flying fuck.

Goddamit.

 

[Haplo]

Wait, Aeon uses CHA as a casting stat? What in the flying fuck.

Goddamit.

Its a GUI legacy bug.

Non-merged Mythic Paths no longer use any stats for their spells, just Mythic Rank.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Well, I can't cast Aeon spells cause I don't have charisma. Fuck me.

 

[Desiderius]

After you rest you will be able to. TTT adds highest Mental to DCs and it’s configurable to highest stat or other options that combine stat and rank.

 

[Yosharian]

Well, I can't cast Aeon spells cause I don't have charisma. Fuck me.

No, you can. As Hap says, it's a visual bug only

 

[Yosharian]

Are there any ways to uncap the damage of Magus spells?

Isn't there like, a Mythic path ability that does that

 

[Desiderius]

Are there any ways to uncap the damage of Magus spells?

Isn't there like, a Mythic path ability that does that

TTT has Intensified meta. Vampiric Touch is already uncapped and meta finally works with it now. Tender Touch Rapier makes dice d8.

 

[Yosharian]

I heard that

Spoiler

Arueshalae

can't have a 'happy' ending if you go Aeon. I don't really give a shit about ending slides, i just want to know what companions get arsey with you and leave if you're an Aeon?

 

[Daidre]

can't have a 'happy' ending if you go Aeon. I don't really give a shit about ending slides, i just want to know what companions get arsey with you and leave if you're an Aeon?

Camellia will leave if you choose Aeon at MR 8.

 

[Desiderius]

She needs to be dead by then.

Suicide by MC.

 

[The_Mask]

Unironically, *you* will be the one kicking people out as Aeon. But yeah, Camellia is the only one that does this more or less voluntarily.

 

[Yosharian]

Really hmm

 

[The_Mask]

Really hmm

Yeah... it really is remarkable how much you change when you can tell who is lying to you.

 

[Yosharian]

Why am I seeing people cast Perfect Form on themselves when CRPGBro says that it can only be cast on allies?

 

[Desiderius]

It's a fun path, and just realized I haven't played it since the fix. Taking suggestions for Aeon run. The plan as it stands:

Demon run originally planned on ending up on Gold Dragon so had Aru and Seelah who've finally gotten to a place I really like so want to keep playing them, but now anything with Natural Weapons is on hold for Shifter DLC where I think they'll finally get a close pass so stuck in Demon where I'll lose Seelah/Aru. New plan:

CN Demon run with no Lawlful or Good companions (outside companion quests/Wolj disappearance). That's Wolj, Wend, Daeran, Greybor, and Nenio. All Chaotic dialogue options mandatory. MC Scion Cleaver/Intimidator. On hold for Scion Dazzling to get fixed. (Aru counts as Good, not interested in re-corrupting her).

NG Gold Dragon (from Angel) with Instinctual Warrior Polymorpher, all Good companions. On hold for Shifter DLC.

Aeon run: all Lawful companions: Seelah/Reg/Lann, no Chaos. Would like to go Drovier with Lann for speed aura on Reg/Seelah. Daeran seems like good fit since The Other kind of Aeonish. That probably means Nenio since TN also closest to Aeon.

Open now. What to do for main? Something with Bane Weapon preferred I think.

 

[LannTheStupid]

All Chaotic dialogue options mandatory.

I know that you have played through the game so many times that now you are trying to challenge yourself, but I would suggest other options.

First, disable alignment requirements and alignment shifts showing in dialogues. See how you can roleplay the path you choose. For the record, it appears I am pretty good at choosing Chaotic Evil, at least in the Owlcat Games writer team interpretation.

Second, try "Immersive mode". See how you can predict enemies' actions and translate spell descriptions to the actual screen space. I haven't tried it yet, but I might if I live long enough for 4-5 playthroughs.

P.S.: On a note unrelated - for everyone who whines about having to mount before the combat. If you mount up in the wild and then transition to another location - all the characters who can mount will be mounted. So the problem exists only when you transition from the camp / city to some other location on the map. Which is, IMHO, a good design choice.