Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Yosharian]

Are you Trickster or Demon?

 

[Desiderius]

Hot damn, the fight against Nocticula has to be by far one of the most retarded things I've ever seen in any video-game, ever.

A constant aura that affects the entire screen and takes effect as soon as the fight starts, with a DC of 47 and bypasses all immunity? Other than pre-buffing to stack your Fort Save through the roof, there's just no counter-play possible. You either get your Fort Save to 40+ before the fight, or you don't even get to play at all. Insanely godawful design.

Isn't it a Fascinate though? Damage breaks those and Last Stand lets you survive damage. My Trickster quest bugged out before I got that far.

Alternatively you could quit chasing memes/dismissing abilities that provide resilience ("there's nothing good to take") and get your saves up/pick Mythics that defend against Mythic Abilities. The nice thing about Mythic Fortitude is that it makes crit misses 1/400.

Does she strip your buffs too? Those are the kind of fights where they went out of their way to make Unfair unfair.

 

[proxon]

Hot damn, the fight against Nocticula has to be by far one of the most retarded things I've ever seen in any video-game, ever.

A constant aura that affects the entire screen and takes effect as soon as the fight starts, with a DC of 47 and bypasses all immunity? Other than pre-buffing to stack your Fort Save through the roof, there's just no counter-play possible. You either get your Fort Save to 40+ before the fight, or you don't even get to play at all. Insanely godawful design.

From what i saw, the only decent counter to her shit is fortune hex on everyone bofore the fight, you can extend hex with cackle so it lasts longer.

 

[Rhobar121]

Could be handy... were it not for the use/duration limitations.

I mean for me the main draw of Hexes is that they're unlimited use. This one isn't.

C’mon man use your head and think of frequency and severity of what it prevents. Concrete instead of just abstract.

She already has an unlimited use Hex (Hampering Hex) that’s always good. And *two* other good action econs.

But a 32+ DC Mass Hold or Putrefaction or Blasphemy will wipe you if you don’t have a plan. If you only need it once per rest (which is the case) it *is* unlimited use unlike Freedom of Movement (which you don’t even have yet at first Minagho fight) and competes for slots with Death Ward/Edge when you get it.

Duration? 7 rounds is more than enough for those fights. It’s a godsend. Helluva lot longer than Protective Luck lol.

Main competition is other passives like Iceplant/Dazzling/Secret that I might take if I weren’t dropping her when she starts eating people.

If you like Protective Luck you can just take that over Hampering.

This is someone who doesn't use slumber + coup de grace on Minagho?
But seriously, the problem with Hexes like this is that there are tons of better choices in the early game.
Protective Luck is the most broken hex in the game.
Even if your AC is high enough that enemies only hit you on nat 20, they still have a 5% chance to hit.
This is quite a lot considering that once you get hit, you will likely lose all of your hp.
Reducing your chance to hit from 1/20 to 1/400 is a huge thing.

Evil Eye is also very good, -4 AC, saves or attack is also a very big bonus. Especially since it is usually enough to cast it on the strongest opponent once per fight.

Fortune is another choice that is extremely powerful. The only drawback is the possibility to cast it once a day per person.

And the most broken hex, cackle. The ability to infinitely extend the duration of all of the above hexes at the cost of only the action of movement is extremely powerful.
Due to the fact that you usually have nothing to do with the move action, you can as well extend the hexes in combat.
But the most broken thing is that you can do it outside of combat as well.
Few things are so broken as infinite protective luck + fortune.

In practice, you automatically have 3-4 hex slots blocked.

 

[Desiderius]

This is someone who doesn't use slumber + coup de grace on Minagho?

I don’t have Slumber because I don’t bring Ember. I do have Sound Burst on Daeran unless I forget to take it like last time. Luckily I did have a random Grease up on Wolj. I’ve heard of people losing initiative on that fight on Unfair and getting locked out by Putrefaction so mentioned it but it’s mainly for Garg Caves/Chief, Nulk fight, Ashberry etc.

Paralyze effects are the main wipe threats if I’m playing well otherwise and that Hex is the perfect solution. I know what all the other Hexes do fine but they just duplicate shit I’m already doing better in other ways.

If I wanted Evil Eye (for caster MC for instance) I’d just take it instead of Hampering and still have the open slot. Protective Luck is good if you *really* need it but I solve those problems other ways since it eats a big chunk of an action economy that could otherwise be presenting additional viable threats. Chant Hexer could conceivably be fun if Hexes had more support and Cam’s archetype wasn’t Combat focused.

The duration on Draconic is a key element. It’s a lot longer than Protective Luck.

 

[Yosharian]

Should I take Persuasion on my MC if I have another character who can run a very high bonus to it (and will be taking it also) or is it not worth it for the small number of Persuasion checks that only the MC can do?

 

[Yosharian]

Next question: is Nenio fucking annoying enough that I should actually take a Merc over her?

Rest of the party: Regill, Arue, Woljif, Ember

 

[Rhobar121]

This is someone who doesn't use slumber + coup de grace on Minagho?

I don’t have Slumber because I don’t bring Ember. I do have Sound Burst on Daeran unless I forget to take it like last time. Luckily I did have a random Grease up on Wolj. I’ve heard of people losing initiative on that fight on Unfair and getting locked out by Putrefaction so mentioned it but it’s mainly for Garg Caves/Chief, Nulk fight, Ashberry etc.

Paralyze effects are the main wipe threats if I’m playing well otherwise and that Hex is the perfect solution. I know what all the other Hexes do fine but they just duplicate shit I’m already doing better in other ways.

If I wanted Evil Eye (for caster MC for instance) I’d just take it instead of Hampering and still have the open slot. Protective Luck is good if you *really* need it but I solve those problems other ways since it eats a big chunk of an action economy that could otherwise be presenting additional viable threats. Chant Hexer could conceivably be fun if Hexes had more support and Cam’s archetype wasn’t Combat focused.

The duration on Draconic is a key element. It’s a lot longer than Protective Luck.

If you play normal, you may not need it. Honestly, that would explain a lot of things.
Due to how lethal critical hits are in this game, if an enemy hits you, you will most likely die. The last stand doesn't really help much here because it only works once a day for 3 turns.
Without protective luck, you can have up to + 100AC and it won't help you much if the enemy hits you critically.
The farther in the game, the more attacks the enemies have, so you will most likely be hit in the end anyway.
You don't even have to use it in combat, as you might as well do it moments before.

I've done the gray garisson many times each time Minagho has practically the same pattern where he casts a useless spell in the 1st turn and only in the second Putrefaction.

In the case of Nulkineth, it's useless because you can use the freedom of movement.
You don't even have to spend your slots on spells (although I don't know what else you would need here because it's the only demon in this location) because you can use scrolls.

This is literally an extremely niche hex that can be useful for 1-2 fights throughout the first two acts and in either case you can achieve the same effect by using freedom of movement. You don't even need it on every character.
Protective luck, fortune, cackle are useful throughout the game.

 

[Humbaba]

Next question: is Nenio fucking annoying enough that I should actually take a Merc over her?

Rest of the party: Regill, Arue, Woljif, Ember

Why would you bring along Nenio anyway if you're already bringing Ember?

 

[Rhobar121]

Should I take Persuasion on my MC if I have another character who can run a very high bonus to it (and will be taking it also) or is it not worth it for the small number of Persuasion checks that only the MC can do?

This isn't a kingsmaker where persuasion gave you a few extra levels.
I can remember one time in Wotr where I had to use persuasion of my main character. It still didn't make a big difference.
There could have been more, although it's quite rare anyway.
Perception is much more important.

Next question: is Nenio fucking annoying enough that I should actually take a Merc over her?

Rest of the party: Regill, Arue, Woljif, Ember

You can always respecialization your companion. As Owlcat once again gave us one but extremely annoying wizard, I usually just convert Woljif to 1lvl rogue / 3lvl wizard to be able to choose the arcane trickster.
It still fits the character and you have access to the full caster.
The Eldritch scoundrel isn't particularly good anyway.

 

[Rhobar121]

Next question: is Nenio fucking annoying enough that I should actually take a Merc over her?

Rest of the party: Regill, Arue, Woljif, Ember

Why would you bring along Nenio anyway if you're already bringing Ember?

Much better spells list. For example, Ember can't use haste.

 

[Humbaba]

Next question: is Nenio fucking annoying enough that I should actually take a Merc over her?

Rest of the party: Regill, Arue, Woljif, Ember

Why would you bring along Nenio anyway if you're already bringing Ember?

Much better spells list. For example, Ember can't use haste.

1. Haste is a crutch if there ever was one.

2. He's also bringing Woljif who has haste, so I ask again, why would he consider Nenio in the first place?

 

[Rhobar121]

1. Icy Prison, Mass
2. Tsunami
3. Weird
4. Angelic Aspect, Greater
5. Protection from Spells
6. Seamantle
7. Polymorph, Greater
8. Banishment
9. Sirocco

I have listed only the most useful to which Ember has no access.
Plus the difference between the ability to preparing spells and a spontaneous casting.

 

[Yosharian]

Should I take Persuasion on my MC if I have another character who can run a very high bonus to it (and will be taking it also) or is it not worth it for the small number of Persuasion checks that only the MC can do?

This isn't a kingsmaker where persuasion gave you a few extra levels.
I can remember one time in Wotr where I had to use persuasion of my main character. It still didn't make a big difference.
There could have been more, although it's quite rare anyway.
Perception is much more important.

Next question: is Nenio fucking annoying enough that I should actually take a Merc over her?

Rest of the party: Regill, Arue, Woljif, Ember

You can always respecialization your companion. As Owlcat once again gave us one but extremely annoying wizard, I usually just convert Woljif to 1lvl rogue / 3lvl wizard to be able to choose the arcane trickster.
It still fits the character and you have access to the full caster.
The Eldritch scoundrel isn't particularly good anyway.

Alright cool I will go PER instead then.

Oh, I am respeccing all of them. I am asking about her personality/dialogue. I have seen some of her dialogues and she seems like a fucking retarded character. But maybe there are some funny moments that will make up for it, I dunno.

I just can't figure any of the other companions as a Skald. Well, not ones that I want to take, Seelah would work but fuck her.

 

[Desiderius]

Illusion AoE control spells (after Color Spray, which it turns out she can get enough defense to get in position to cast effectively once her lvl 8 ability turns on) are enemies only and Nenio can get her DCs sky high with Illusion Ring and the Will DC boosting stuff along with Darven's Hat.

Retards like Rhobar121 think I play Normal because they haven't figured out how to debuff/disable enemies so get attacked alot. I don't.



You can get Haste on Wolj* so Wolj/Ember can make a good combo, but it's hard to give up Nenio's Illusion control and ability to turn found scrolls into something actually useful (while also making her own to use on your other toons).

* - Wolj also sells a Haste Wand to use while he's gone.

 

[Humbaba]

1. Icy Prison, Mass
2. Tsunami
3. Weird
4. Angelic Aspect, Greater
5. Protection from Spells
6. Seamantle
7. Polymorph, Greater
8. Banishment
9. Sirocco

I have listed only the most useful to which Ember has no access.
Plus the difference between the ability to preparing spells and a spontaneous casting.

1. Endgame spell, barely relevant
2. Same
3. Same, also doesn't work on anything worth using on
4. Personal
5. Useless as most spells already have counters many of which Ember or Sosiel has access to
6. Personal
7. Doesn't work on anything worth using on
8. See 7
9. Crutch

Plus the difference between the ability to preparing spells and a spontaneous casting.

As in spontaneous casting is way better than preparing spells I hope is what you meant.

 

[Yosharian]

Found some more interesting bugs/mechanics.

Bane and its associated abilities such as Inquisitor Bane has always been coded as an extra 'Enhancement' on top of weapon enhancement

Items such as Claws of a Sacred Beast, Bracers of Animal Fury & Shroud of Eternal Hunger also have pseudo-Enhancement bonuses, and I just assumed that they wouldn't stack with Bane

But they do. My new theoretical Aeon build just got a lot stronger.

Proof:

Spoiler

Getting closer and closer to actually playing the game, woop woop. Just waiting for the Mighty Charge fix then I'm diving in.

 

[Desiderius]

But maybe there are some funny moments that will make up for it, I dunno.

Oh there are. She gets owned in dialogue by most bosses. She's a parody of "I fucking love science" dorks.

 

[Rhobar121]

Should I take Persuasion on my MC if I have another character who can run a very high bonus to it (and will be taking it also) or is it not worth it for the small number of Persuasion checks that only the MC can do?

This isn't a kingsmaker where persuasion gave you a few extra levels.
I can remember one time in Wotr where I had to use persuasion of my main character. It still didn't make a big difference.
There could have been more, although it's quite rare anyway.
Perception is much more important.

Next question: is Nenio fucking annoying enough that I should actually take a Merc over her?

Rest of the party: Regill, Arue, Woljif, Ember

You can always respecialization your companion. As Owlcat once again gave us one but extremely annoying wizard, I usually just convert Woljif to 1lvl rogue / 3lvl wizard to be able to choose the arcane trickster.
It still fits the character and you have access to the full caster.
The Eldritch scoundrel isn't particularly good anyway.

Alright cool I will go PER instead then.

Oh, I am respeccing all of them. I am asking about her personality/dialogue. I have seen some of her dialogues and she seems like a fucking retarded character. But maybe there are some funny moments that will make up for it, I dunno.

I just can't figure any of the other companions as a Skald. Well, not ones that I want to take, Seelah would work but fuck her.

Nienio has the least content. The whole of her story takes place only in the 5th act. If you like extremely poor jokes, you can choose her.

Found some more interesting bugs/mechanics.

Bane and its associated abilities such as Inquisitor Bane has always been coded as an extra 'Enhancement' on top of weapon enhancement

Items such as Claws of a Sacred Beast, Bracers of Animal Fury & Shroud of Eternal Hunger also have pseudo-Enhancement bonuses, and I just assumed that they wouldn't stack with Bane

But they do. My new theoretical Aeon build just got a lot stronger.

Proof:

Spoiler

Getting closer and closer to actually playing the game, woop woop. Just waiting for the Mighty Charge fix then I'm diving in.

They haven't fixed it for over a year, so personally I wouldn't be waiting for it. Even if I'm sure they'll break something else.

 

[Yosharian]

Nah Starrok assured me personally on Reddit that a fix for it is incoming

And he wouldn't lie!

 

[Rhobar121]

Nah Starrok assured me personally on Reddit that a fix for it is incoming

And he wouldn't lie!

Of course, but in the end he'll say it's your fault because you had too high expectations, and he didn't really say it at all.

 

[Desiderius]

1. Icy Prison, Mass
2. Tsunami
3. Weird
4. Angelic Aspect, Greater
5. Protection from Spells
6. Seamantle
7. Polymorph, Greater
8. Banishment
9. Sirocco

I have listed only the most useful to which Ember has no access.
Plus the difference between the ability to preparing spells and a spontaneous casting.

More endgame theorycrafting. As if by that point you need access to all those spells. Lategame Ember's got her own high level spells to wreck with and the rest of the team gets its own stuff. Seelah gets AA, Greater at lvl 13 anyway and Seamantle gets bypassed by Freedom of Movement.

If there's something on that list you want there are a lot of ways to get it. Obv Nenio's going to be better at Weirding but that can get to the point that it trivializes the game in any case.

If you play normal, you may not need it. Honestly, that would explain a lot of things.
Due to how lethal critical hits are in this game, if an enemy hits you, you will most likely die. The last stand doesn't really help much here because it only works once a day for 3 turns.
Without protective luck, you can have up to + 100AC and it won't help you much if the enemy hits you critically.
The farther in the game, the more attacks the enemies have, so you will most likely be hit in the end anyway.
You don't even have to use it in combat, as you might as well do it moments before.

Seriously, just fuck yourself. I've been posting pics on Hard/Unfair for four years. Where's yours?

I gave Cam a Leopard in my Unfair run and had her keep Protective Luck up to get through the first few levels but after Garrison no longer needed it. I play Hard now because it's a good fit for just playing a low reload game without needing shenanigans like that.

Most crits (rare needing two 20s) from non-bosses aren't lethal if you've got temporary HPs and some DR (reduces damage pre-doubling) but once things get rolling enemy attacks don't show up on my Combat Log much at all. Nat 20s can be managed in that environment but I also keep rezzes like Breath of Life up in case things get out of hand. If Last Stand isn't good for you you're getting killed too often. Sounds like that's due to letting yourself get attacked too often due to poor initiative/debuffing/disabling/distraction. That will happen if you've got one character just spamming a Hex instead of presenting threats.

 

[Desiderius]

In the case of Nulkineth, it's useless because you can use the freedom of movement.
You don't even have to spend your slots on spells (although I don't know what else you would need here because it's the only demon in this location) because you can use scrolls.

This is literally an extremely niche hex that can be useful for 1-2 fights throughout the first two acts and in either case you can achieve the same effect by using freedom of movement. You don't even need it on every character.

Lol I don't want to blow all that money (and attention) on scrolls if I don't have to. If you're not using Crusader's Edge against Nulk what are you even doing?

Of course it's niche. I've already got a Hex that's spammable and always good. If that niche is the thing responsible for the lion's share of my wipes across multiple playthroughs then an ability that closes that niche is very good. And it's not one or two fights. I go to camp to rest after Nulk and the very next fight is Garg Chief down the mountain who's wiped me before with Blasphemy. Not now that I've got Draconic! Maugla usually doesn't get Hold, Mass up but other Nabasu have depending on how well hidden they are. I got Ashbery Hamlet ghost to Rift some summons last time then got got by Blasphemy there too (did end up barely pulling it out). And yeah Minagho's Putrefaction's gotten me in final Drezen fight before too. Chivarro has Hold, Mass etc (by then Freedom does become more practical, but it's moot because Cam's dead).

In general though if I'm fighting undead Freedom slots want to be Death Ward and against Demons they want to be Crusader's Edge, so the first several levels after Freedom becoming available it gets crowded out.

The rnd/lvl duration makes prebuffing with BubbleBot seem a little less exploitative than doing it with the short duration hexes.

 

[Rhobar121]

1. Icy Prison, Mass
2. Tsunami
3. Weird
4. Angelic Aspect, Greater
5. Protection from Spells
6. Seamantle
7. Polymorph, Greater
8. Banishment
9. Sirocco

I have listed only the most useful to which Ember has no access.
Plus the difference between the ability to preparing spells and a spontaneous casting.

More endgame theorycrafting. As if by that point you need access to all those spells. Lategame Ember's got her own high level spells to wreck with and the rest of the team gets its own stuff. Seelah gets AA, Greater at lvl 13 anyway and Seamantle gets bypassed by Freedom of Movement.

If there's something on that list you want there are a lot of ways to get it. Obv Nenio's going to be better at Weirding but that can get to the point that it trivializes the game in any case.

If you play normal, you may not need it. Honestly, that would explain a lot of things.
Due to how lethal critical hits are in this game, if an enemy hits you, you will most likely die. The last stand doesn't really help much here because it only works once a day for 3 turns.
Without protective luck, you can have up to + 100AC and it won't help you much if the enemy hits you critically.
The farther in the game, the more attacks the enemies have, so you will most likely be hit in the end anyway.
You don't even have to use it in combat, as you might as well do it moments before.

Seriously, just fuck yourself. I've been posting pics on Hard/Unfair for four years. Where's yours?

I gave Cam a Leopard in my Unfair run and had her keep Protective Luck up to get through the first few levels but after Garrison no longer needed it. I play Hard now because it's a good fit for just playing a low reload game without needing shenanigans like that.

Most crits (rare needing two 20s) from non-bosses aren't lethal if you've got temporary HPs and some DR (reduces damage pre-doubling) but once things get rolling enemy attacks don't show up on my Combat Log much at all. Nat 20s can be managed in that environment but I also keep rezzes like Breath of Life up in case things get out of hand. If Last Stand isn't good for you you're getting killed too often. Sounds like that's due to letting yourself get attacked too often due to poor initiative/debuffing/disabling/distraction. That will happen if you've got one character just spamming a Hex instead of presenting threats.

I just listed a wizard spell that Ember doesn't have access to, that's it. I limited myself to high lvl only because there was a question about Woljif.

There are a lot of murderous non-boss mobs. The ones you meet quite early are glabrezu.
The only sensible and easily available form of DR is stoneskin.
The problem is that it is on the same level as greater invisibility, which is the instant win for most of the fights you encounter in Chapter 2.
Temporal hp is also quite limited at the beginning, if I remember correctly the only spell available in act 2 is aid.

You may not like and use personal luck, but objectively it's one of the best hexes.
Reducing the chance of an enemy hit from 1/20 to 1/400 is a huge gain.
If you had to use it only in combat, you could argue whether it is really worth it, the problem is that thanks to the cackle it costs you literally nothing if you use it outside of combat.
Both this and fortune are quite unique effects that at almost zero cost (the only cost is spending time buffing) allow you to roll twice in almost any situation.
Other hexes are much more situational and many of them can be replaced with spells like freedom of movement.
Freedom of Movement protects against a lot of annoying mechanics and, unlike draconic resistance, it lasts forever.
Due to the fact that it lasts so long, you can even use the only scrolls (usually you don't need this on all characters), until you unlock the abundant casting.
The scrolls themselves are also not very expensive.

 

[Desiderius]

Are you using Reduce Person and Bane Enemies?

Yes, Bane of Enemies is the best Enchant that Camellia has - but thing is, it is level 8 ability from Battle Spirit, any Shaman archetype with Battle Spirit got it. And any shaman without Battle Spirit can get it from Wandering Spirit at lvl 12, with some delay.

Honestly, I was genuinely surprised when my Possessed Shaman MC got it. Turned out that Owlcat being Owlcat had not listed lvl 8 and lvl 16 abilities (each spirit has them) in Battle Spirit description. Btw, her Greater Spirit ability is Enlarge + Divine Power for minute, and that does not work well with her build.

Point is, that after Elemental Barrage fix Camellia got probably worst Shaman Archetype in the game and one that was made specifically for her, since Spirit Hunter is not in PnP : )
It is very surprising that Wildland Shaman, for example, gets much more - full pet, but paying less for it, since he still got Wandering Spirit to cheese Shatter prereqs.

The Battle Spirit abilities:



Note Cam has decent CHR and can wear CHR boosting equipment to get more activations. Making this archetype DEX-based was flat-out incompetent. This isn't a puzzle to solve it's just designed by someone with only a passing familiarity with the mechanics of the game.