Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Yosharian]

So, did some testing with Arcane Pool. Unfortunately, Arcane Mount is still broken - the pet gets nothing. It's kinda shitty, but it doesn't have a huge impact on the build, so whatever. Maybe one day they'll fix it. Sigh.

Anyway, I found some new information which actually makes the Magus build better in my eyes than the Cavalier build.

I tested Bane Blade and Devoted Blade, and found that they both work on Jinx's bonus hit. So that's 6D6 extra damage, applied twice per attack vs a hexed target. Nice.

Then I tested with Aeon Bane, because of course I thought: there's no way they're gonna stack, but best to test it - really I was just curious if Aeon Bane would work on the Jinx hit.

Well, the Banes stack. On both hits. So that's 8D6 unresistable damage added twice per attack vs a hexed target. That's 16D6 damage per attack, i.e. 56 damage on average. That really makes up for the loss of damage from losing Mounted Mastery - which only ever applied on charges anyway.

And now I have Prescient Attack/Arcane Accuracy as an optional attack boost vs high AC targets. And Dimensional Ride for positioning.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, I enjoy some of this bonus damage (Holy from Devoted mostly and bane from Crusader's Edge) on my Wide Sweep Mobility Trickster. No double-hits, but instead propagating the damage all around the target.


And yeah, Aeon Bane is really fun. Although Greater Bane is an end game affair. But already Improved is very good - and you can get the damage component much earlier if you're an inquisitor.

I now think that Aeons need to be casters, at least hybrid (guess even ranger would work). Destructive Dispel with Improved Aeon Bane (and occassionally Selective Zero State) is just so much fun! And you need to be a 11 level caster for that. So pure monks and fighters would loose out on it.
You strip most buffs from most enemies, making them far more vulnerable to various CC, much easier to hit, much weaker AND at the same time you spam Stun CC and a lot of enemies fail the check sooner or later.
Late game Aeon is really OP.

Not sure now which path is the strongest late-game: Aeon or Trickster.
Guess maybe Trickster with the silly Persuasion Greater Trick and Trick Fate... but Aeon really isn't far behind.

 

[Yosharian]

I now think that Aeons need to be casters, at least hybrid (guess even ranger would work). Destructive Dispel with Improved Aeon Bane (and occassionally Selective Zero State) is just so much fun! And you need to be a 11 level caster for that. So pure monks and fighters would loose out on it.

Whut. Explain. I'm not seeing anything in Destructive Dispel's description that states you need to be a level 11 caster.

Wait what is the DC of Destructive Dispel when it triggers from Aeon Bane?

Edit: I'm not convinced Destructive Dispel is a viable strategy for Aeon Bane. The DC doesn't get very high. I just tested it on my Legend Cav and the DC was 34. I'm not sure how the DC of Aeon Bane scales, maybe it's better the more Mythic rank you have?

Edit2: yeah I just tested it with the Aeon Threshold save I have and the DC is very, very bad, DC25. Nothing is going to fail that save unless they roll a 1. Sickened is fine I guess but this isn't worth a feat IMO.

 

[Yosharian]

Arcane Rider doesn't seem to get the option to 'Continue' mount progression when you already have a mount? What is this, Owlcat

Edit: alright seems like it worked anyway. Damn, had me worried there

 

[Haplo]

I now think that Aeons need to be casters, at least hybrid (guess even ranger would work). Destructive Dispel with Improved Aeon Bane (and occassionally Selective Zero State) is just so much fun! And you need to be a 11 level caster for that. So pure monks and fighters would loose out on it.

Whut. Explain. I'm not seeing anything in Destructive Dispel's description that states you need to be a level 11 caster.

Wait what is the DC of Destructive Dispel when it triggers from Aeon Bane?

Edit: I'm not convinced Destructive Dispel is a viable strategy for Aeon Bane. The DC doesn't get very high. I just tested it on my Legend Cav and the DC was 34. I'm not sure how the DC of Aeon Bane scales, maybe it's better the more Mythic rank you have?

Edit2: yeah I just tested it with the Aeon Threshold save I have and the DC is very, very bad, DC25. Nothing is going to fail that save unless they roll a 1. Sickened is fine I guess but this isn't worth a feat IMO.

Hm, curious. In my game it needs Dispel or Greater Dispel access (can be gotten from Aeon), but also CL 11+ (where Aeon Mythic casting seemed insufficient).

Guess it might be a TTT requirement? Not listed in the readme though.

Yeah, the DCs are not that high. BUT enemies roll per effect dispelled, so often it can be 5-10 rolls per target. Even critical "1" odds aren't bad.
I think TTT also fixes the DCs (10 + 1/2 CL + Highest Mental Stat - according to readme). Yesterday in Act 4 at level 17 and MR6 I had 32 DC.
Solid, given how much enemies roll all the time.

 

[Humbaba]

Good news fellas, I managed to cheese the Echo by accidentally breaking his AI and swarm infesting him to death (very slowly). In hindsight I probably could've continually spammed creeping doom to keep him distracted while swarm infest would've been doing all the work.

Anyway, once you get to mythic level 9, the game is essentially on easy mode. Swarm is easily the strongest mythic path with all the benefits you're getting, chief among which being swarm immunities, meaning you're immune to any and all sources of physical damage. This means that 99% of enemies in the game are literally no longer a threat. Plus you get all those massively juiced up stats via swarm form and your swarm size. I've never gotten through Iz that fucking quickly. Even the Filleted Man stands absolutely no chance. The mythic Deraknis and Nalfeshnees can lock me down for a while with drone and unholy nimbus but they can't hurt me, so they get chopped to pieces after those effects wear off. Balors might as well be Kobolds.

Sadly, there's also a few shortcomings. The transformation effect sucks absolute shit unless you're wearing a helmet or a mask, because you can still very clearly see the face underneath the bugs without one. I don't understand why they couldn't just make a separate model, like they did for Aeon or Lich. Galfrey shows absolutely no reaction to you being a swarm but then again she also shows no reaction to being a lich. The devs just borked Iz didn't they.

There's also some weird reactivity issues, like Dorgelinda or Lady Konomi and other crusade NPCs still hanging around, because the crusade system is removed except for the Homm minigame after you go swarm. You also can't eat them BUT you can eat the storyteller for whatever reason. I am also EXTREMELY disappointed by the fact that you don't eat your companions but they just leave like they quit their job. I was hoping you'd get to fight them and certain points in the game like you fight Vhailor or Ignus in PST.

Currently stuck on Deskari because I just can't seem to hit the motherfucker. Think I'll have to cheese him as well.

 

[Yosharian]

Ah ok yeah.

So, random question: a couple of items are available from Gwerm's Mansion in Act 5 during Camellia's final quest 'The Final Drop'.

Only problem is, I killed the bitch. Can I still get those items from the Mansion?

There's a pair of boots in particular but also an amulet.

 

[Humbaba]

No you don't get to kill Cam and get her stuff.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Can I still get those items from the Mansion?

Nope, you need her alive till the door opens.

 

[Yosharian]

Can I still get those items from the Mansion?

Nope, you need her alive till the door opens.

DAMNNNN THIS BIIIIIITCH

fuck it, Toy Box it is

 

[Haplo]

Choice and Consequence...

 

[Yosharian]

Choice and Consequence...

Yes it makes complete sense that an item that is just looted from a location suddenly becomes unavailable when an NPC dies

Oh wait no it doesn't

 

[Haplo]

Does it make more sense for the Knight Commander to search and ransack houses?

 

[Yosharian]

Does it make more sense for the Knight Commander to search and ransack houses?

You clearly haven't met my Knight Commander

 

[LannTheStupid]

Does it make more sense for the Knight Commander to search and ransack houses?

It's requisition of private property for war effort.

 

[coldcrow]

Ah ok yeah.

So, random question: a couple of items are available from Gwerm's Mansion in Act 5 during Camellia's final quest 'The Final Drop'.

Only problem is, I killed the bitch. Can I still get those items from the Mansion?

There's a pair of boots in particular but also an amulet.

Why would you ever kill Camelia?

Darn, I have to get on with my Demon Kinetic playthrough.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Darn, I have to get on with my Demon Kinetic playthrough.

I did, after 7 months gap! It's amazing!

 

[Humbaba]

Deskari was easy actually, just have the 2 swarm clones tank and do damage with swarm feast and have your main guy hang back, cast swarm infest and creeping doom and wait.

 

[Delterius]

So, everyone keeps saying Galfrey is retarded, chides you for no reason etc. It's kind of a bizarre contrast with my playthrough because as Demon she is being way too lenient. Her finally stripping you of command makes complete and absolute sense and honestly comes way, waaaaay too late

This made me think a bit and I don't think Galfrey was lenient per-se. She was actually just powerless to move against you between the beginning of act 2 and the end of act 3.

When you leave Kenabres you do so with volunteers from Nerosyan and the Eagle Watch. But already during the march towards Drezen you're expected to build your own army. The mendevian soldiers are complemented with hellknights, mercenaries and other volunteers. Moreover you save their lives twice on the way to Drezen. All in all there's a case to be made that at least a plurality of the army is loyal to you rather than the Queen. By act 3 it gets worse. You're now entrenched in your own realm, the army continues to grow with mercenaries and foreign soldiers, and you start getting your first few mythic units, which are loyalist. By that point dislodging you as commander takes more than an order, it takes Galfrey coming personally to Drezen at the head of an army. Plus, she needs a damn good justification to do so, which is sending you to the Abyss. It's something you might want to do anyways, and also a good way to deal with a victorious leader.

My impression from the demon story is that they could have leaned a bit harder on the notion that some crusaders see you as fire to be used against fire rather than the chosen of iomedae. But all in all I think it works.

 

[Grunker]

So, everyone keeps saying Galfrey is retarded, chides you for no reason etc. It's kind of a bizarre contrast with my playthrough because as Demon she is being way too lenient. Her finally stripping you of command makes complete and absolute sense and honestly comes way, waaaaay too late

This made me think a bit and I don't think Galfrey was lenient per-se. She was actually just powerless to move against you between the beginning of act 2 and the end of act 3.

When you leave Kenabres you do so with volunteers from Nerosyan and the Eagle Watch. But already during the march towards Drezen you're expected to build your own army. The mendevian soldiers are complemented with hellknights, mercenaries and other volunteers. Moreover you save their lives twice on the way to Drezen. All in all there's a case to be made that at least a plurality of the army is loyal to you rather than the Queen. By act 3 it gets worse. You're now entrenched in your own realm, the army continues to grow with mercenaries and foreign soldiers, and you start getting your first few mythic units, which are loyalist. By that point dislodging you as commander takes more than an order, it takes Galfrey coming personally to Drezen at the head of an army. Plus, she needs a damn good justification to do so, which is sending you to the Abyss. It's something you might want to do anyways, and also a good way to deal with a victorious leader.

My impression from the demon story is that they could have leaned a bit harder on the notion that some crusaders see you as fire to be used against fire rather than the chosen of iomedae. But all in all I think it works.

My point wasn't so much that it was a problem in my game that she was too lenient - it was more a counterpoint to the posts I see about her being retarded for firing you. Seems like there's a lot of mythic scenarios where it makes sense despite your success.

 

[Delterius]

Seems like there's a lot of mythic scenarios where it makes sense despite your success.

Definitely. The game succeeds in making you feel antipathy towards Galfrey. Really, everyone looks at the camera and says she's being a dumbass. So what I think happens is that people take that feeling and project to saying the entire thing is a meta-farce, that Galfrey has no real reason to demote you. That's far from the truth most of the time. And sometimes she doesn't even do that. I assume Angel gets to keep being the commander, only in a special mission to the Abyss.

 

[Yosharian]

Guys do Inquisitors lose access to their powers if they stray from their deity's alignment?

 

[Yosharian]

Godammit. I wonder if Divine Hunters do as well..

 

[Grunker]

Seems like there's a lot of mythic scenarios where it makes sense despite your success.

Definitely. The game succeeds in making you feel antipathy towards Galfrey. Really, everyone looks at the camera and says she's being a dumbass. So what I think happens is that people take that feeling and project to saying the entire thing is a meta-farce, that Galfrey has no real reason to demote you. That's far from the truth most of the time. And sometimes she doesn't even do that. I assume Angel gets to keep being the commander, only in a special mission to the Abyss.

Exactly. "I won so it's dumb she doesn't let me lead"

 

[Yosharian]

Sooo I had a weird build idea

Dunno if this is gonna work but

Classes: Beast Rider 15/Zen Archer 3/Instinctual Warrior 1/Demonslayer 1
Role: Ranged Damage (STR/WIS/CHA)
Race: Tiefling (Motherless - Qlippoth-Spawn)
Alignment: ?
Background: Pickpocket (Street Urchin)
Deity: ?
Ability Score Distribution: (25 points)

• STR: 18 (+2)
• DEX: 07
• CON: 12
• INT: 10 (-2)
• WIS: 18 [+5 => 23]
• CHA: 14

Skills: 3/level

• Perception (20): skill checks
• Mobility (20): Indomitable Mount checks?
• Athletics (20): skill checks

Feats (*: bonus feat):
L01 Zen Archer 1: Improved Initiative, Precise Shot*, Perfect Strike
L02 Zen Archer 2: Point-Blank Shot*, Way of the Bow (Longbow)
L03 Zen Archer 3: Dazzling Display, Point-Blank Master*, Zen Archery
L04 Instinctual Warrior 1: Focused Rage, Fervent Reflexes
L05 Beast Rider 1: Boon Companion, Shake It Off*, Order of the Sword
L06 Demonslayer 1: Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders)
L07 Beast Rider 2: Shatter Defenses
L08 Beast Rider 3: -
L09 Beast Rider 4: Improved Critical (Longbow), Snap Shot*
L10 Beast Rider 5: -
L11 Beast Rider 6: Clustered Shots, Improved Snap Shot*
L12 Beast Rider 7: -
L13 Beast Rider 8: Combat Reflexes, Indomitable Mount*
L14 Beast Rider 9: Outflank* (Teamwork)
L15 Beast Rider 10: Deadly Aim
L16 Beast Rider 11: -
L17 Beast Rider 12: Great Fortitude?, Greater Snap Shot*
L18 Beast Rider 13: -
L19 Beast Rider 14: Iron Will?
L20 Beast Rider 15: Knight's Challenge

M01: Last Stand
M02: Improved Initiative (Mythic)
M03: [Demon Path] Ever Ready
M04: (EMA) Cleaving Shot
M05: Mythical Beast
M06: Deadly Aim (Mythic)
M07: Rupture Restraints
M08: Great Fortitude (Mythic)?
M09: Always A Chance
M10: Iron Will (Mythic)?

Suggested Gear: Bracers of Archery, Cloak of Sweet Lies, Mirror of Beautiful Deceit, Darkness Caress, Deadeye, Sure Footing, Flawless Belt of Physical Perfection +8, Shroud of the Eternal Hunger, Back Rank Assistance/Half of the Pair, Glasses of Undeniable Truth, Hammer Of Masterpiece. Any armor.

Aspects: Incubus, Vrock, Nabasu, Babau
Major Aspects: Shadow Demon, Vavakia, Balor
Demon Lord Aspects: Nocticula / Pazuzu

Endgame Ability Scores (buffed, with items):

• STR: 52 (18 base, +8 Enh, +2 Elixir, +10 FA, +6 DA, +4 Profane, +4 Food)
• DEX: 21 (07 base, +8 Enhancement, +2 Elixir, +4 Food)
• CON: 38 (10 base, +8 Enhancement, +2 Elixir, +8 FA, +6 DA, +4 Food)
• INT: 30 (10 base, +8 Enhancement, +2 Elixir, +6 Song, +4 Food
• WIS: 56 (23 base, +8 Enh., +6 DA, +5 Mythic, +2 Elixir, +6 Profane, +2 Rage, +4 Food)
• CHA: 38 (14 base, +8 Enhancement, +2 Elixir, +4 Food, +6 Song, +4 Mirror)

It's so retarded it might actually work

It gets 2x CHA to damage at endgame from Mirror+Cloak & Darkness Caress, and 2x WIS to AB from Zen Archery & Mirror. Also CHA to saves but w/e that's not even that important. Additionally, CHA-to-damage from Knight's Challenge at endgame so that's 3x CHA to damage, and also up to +30 damage from Knight's Challenge plus regular Challenge.

That's 42 damage from CHA, 21 damage from Deadly Aim, 21 damage from STR, and 30 damage from double Challenge (takes two rounds to set that up). So, +114 damage in addition to items/abilities etc.

Let's see, +2 Ring of Summons, +3 Luck from Crusade bonus, +5 Enhancement, +2 Living Bane, +4 Shroud, +8 Incubus, +2 Demonslayer, +8 Rage, +4 Heroism, +2 Demongraft, +1 Circumstance, that's +41, so +155 damage in total, maybe a bit more from some other sources. Also extra damage dice from Babau & Bane I guess. Oh and there's that Demon spell that adds Unholy damage.

Hammer of Masterpiece will give +2 attacks so that's 4 (BAB) + 2 (Hammer) + 1 (Haste) + 1 (Flurry) so 8 APR.

The idea is to have Wenduag as an archer as well and give her all the Demon bonuses using Noct's Aspect, she can wield Killing Pace and together they make a firing squad for anything that dares come close.

The rest of the team will be offensive casters supported by a Court Poet.

I dunno if it will ride a mount or just have it fight by itself, maybe a Velociraptor? Dunno. If it doesn't ride a mount then it can benefit from Legendary Proportions and then with Hurricane Bow the base damage will actually be pretty sick. Maybe it's worth it to get Vital Strike for opening fights with a big hit?