Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Haplo]

You don't need Vital Strike to open fights with ranged attacks. If your Initiative is good, you'll fire 1 shot, the combat will start and you'll fire the rest of your volley.
Getting Order of the Sword for an archer sounds super-wierd.
With high Cha I'd rather pick Lion or something.

If the pet will fight alone, dog/wolf morphed into a dragon is best, as I understand.

 

[Lambach]

I assume Angel gets to keep being the commander, only in a special mission to the Abyss.

Yes, and Aeon does as well if you made the right choices and pass a Persuasion Check. I would assume it's even possible with Azata, if you choose to wait for Galfrey to drag her useless ass to Drezen and not launch a surprise attack on the Midnight Fane (but that defeats the purpose of being an Azata, so why would you do that?)

 

[Yosharian]

You don't need Vital Strike to open fights with ranged attacks. If your Initiative is good, you'll fire 1 shot, the combat will start and you'll fire the rest of your volley.
Getting Order of the Sword for an archer sounds super-wierd.
With high Cha I'd rather pick Lion or something.

If the pet will fight alone, dog/wolf morphed into a dragon is best, as I understand.

Dude Order of the Sword gives you a mega-smite at level 15

• Knight's Challenge: At 15th level, the Cavalier can make a knight's challenge once per day. This functions like a normal Challenge, but the Cavalier adds his Charisma bonus on all attack rolls and damage rolls made against the target of his challenge. In addition, he receives a +4 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits against the target of his Knight's Challenge.

Lion gives fuck all, I already have Competence bonuses to everything

Additionally, the Challenge bonus from Sword:

• Challenge (Order of the Sword): Whenever an Order of the Sword Cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 a morale bonus on attack rolls against the target of his challenge so long as he is astride his mount. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.

Stacks with Heroism. Lion gives a dodge bonus, fucking useless.

Ahhh holy shit a morphed dragon! I never thought about that. I guess its better than Velociraptor? I forget how it works now, the pet gets the 6 APR from DKIII but gets trip on every attack or something?

 

[Daidre]

It gets 2x CHA to damage at endgame from Mirror+Cloak & Darkness Caress

Mirror+Cloak combo is not in the main campaign and Darkness Caress only available for the last 15 min of the game and you need to meet extra conditions to get it.

 

[Yosharian]

It gets 2x CHA to damage at endgame from Mirror+Cloak & Darkness Caress

Mirror+Cloak combo is not in the main campaign and Darkness Caress only available for the last 15 min of the game and you need to meet extra conditions to get it.

...seriously? I thought it was?

I know about Darkness Caress.

You can't get the Cloak or the Mirror? Or just one?

Well shit, there goes that idea then sigh.

 

[Yosharian]

I could swear someone said the mirror was available in the main game

 

[Haplo]

You don't need Vital Strike to open fights with ranged attacks. If your Initiative is good, you'll fire 1 shot, the combat will start and you'll fire the rest of your volley.
Getting Order of the Sword for an archer sounds super-wierd.
With high Cha I'd rather pick Lion or something.

If the pet will fight alone, dog/wolf morphed into a dragon is best, as I understand.

Dude Order of the Sword gives you a mega-smite at level 15

• Knight's Challenge: At 15th level, the Cavalier can make a knight's challenge once per day. This functions like a normal Challenge, but the Cavalier adds his Charisma bonus on all attack rolls and damage rolls made against the target of his challenge. In addition, he receives a +4 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits against the target of his Knight's Challenge.

Lion gives fuck all, I already have Competence bonuses to everything

Additionally, the Challenge bonus from Sword:

• Challenge (Order of the Sword): Whenever an Order of the Sword Cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 a morale bonus on attack rolls against the target of his challenge so long as he is astride his mount. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.

Stacks with Heroism. Lion gives a dodge bonus, fucking useless.

Ahhh holy shit a morphed dragon! I never thought about that. I guess its better than Velociraptor? I forget how it works now, the pet gets the 6 APR from DKIII but gets trip on every attack or something?

For the King! stacked, last time I checked.

Or something. I think pets with iteratives get more then 6 atttacks, but haven't tested.

 

[Yosharian]

Well anyway the point is moot now, not gonna go with a CHA build anymore.

Maybe Oracle? Eh I dunno.

I need to find a way to exploit the ridiculously high WIS. If the mirror isn't available then I just can't figure out how to do that. It doesn't help that ZA's flurry doesn't work with ranged feats.

I toyed with the idea of offensive casting but ZA is so costly at three levels.

 

[Desiderius]

Scouting out Grotto on what I thought was Hard so didn't take many pics. On third fight Seelah got lit up by a Mino Axe Thrower I hadn't even scouted out and figured out I'd been on Unfair the whole time lol. Seemed more challenging than I expected, but not really a threat with rnd/lvl stuff up. Without it in the Mino fight things could have gone sideways. But didn't as it turned out. Anyway, these pics are on Unfair:



Cool thing Reg can do now with Travel Domain is Swift Hop in and still have a Full Action for Dazzling Display. Could piar with Thug lvl or Fearsomeness (or Signature Skill mod) to really go off.



Not using any Evo DC items on Unfair means that Order's Wrath only sometimes Dazes, but still solid damage.



Mounted Combat Mobility Check a nice thing to have against Unfair Touch Attax



Nice try with the Force Bomb there bub.



Here's what Grunker is talking about.

(1) She's usually in the mid-60s, which wouldn't be enough but wouldn't be hopeless. Can get close to mid-70s at this point if I have to.

(2) Don't let Minos get free full strength shots. Reminds me of Might and Magic 7. Other non-boss mobs not nearly as much of an issue.

 

[Desiderius]

Missed one:



Can see Druid Summons starting to get some damage in here on Unfair with no Summon specific items or abilities outside of Augment Summoning Feat. Nenio's spell is Shadow Evocation, Greater I think. A way to get greater flexibility while also upping the DC without taking Evo Focus Feats, tho it bites you if they get a lucky save to disbelieve.

Higher level Shadow spells have greater chance of effect even if disbelieved, and there's a Mythic to lower disbelief chance. Probably already know this from Weird/Killer but also applies to Shadow spells in different ways. Here the disbelief didn't keep him upright.

(Lann again using Scimitar because I forgot to switch it back. Next level won't have to switch at all. His Ranged damage as a Druid isn't great yet so doesn't matter a ton. Does more casting when it matters. That Scimitar is decent weapon anyway)

 

[ga♥]

I assume Angel gets to keep being the commander, only in a special mission to the Abyss.

Yes, and Aeon does as well if you made the right choices and pass a Persuasion Check. I would assume it's even possible with Azata, if you choose to wait for Galfrey to drag her useless ass to Drezen and not launch a surprise attack on the Midnight Fane (but that defeats the purpose of being an Azata, so why would you do that?)

Difference been that Angel can fuck up and still retain the title, azata/aeon don't.
Also Azata midnight fane version is underwhelming honestly, a lot less enemies, and nothing really unique beside the free crusaders.

 

[ga♥]

Good news fellas, I managed to cheese the Echo by accidentally breaking his AI and swarm infesting him to death (very slowly). In hindsight I probably could've continually spammed creeping doom to keep him distracted while swarm infest would've been doing all the work.

I remember I had to swarm infest and then dimension door away and wait for him to die.

you can eat the storyteller for whatever reason.

No you can't, did you try to pick the dialogue? It doesn't let you eat him.
Btw eating people via dialogue is always bad, you used to not get a bonus if you do to swarm size, better use [attack] and then eat them.
(all the vault dwellers in the codex quests are level 20, they increase the swarm size a lot!)

 

[Daidre]

You can't get the Cloak or the Mirror? Or just one?

Both items are missing in the integrated version.

 

[Desiderius]

Just picked up Evercold. How good do you consider that, Daidre?

I like XBow for Eldritch Archer but not sure it would be worth it on Slayer MC, though it might for wider crit range. Eventually will go Short Bow I think for the Mounted one but not sure how Evercold stacks up with Eye for an Eye with Aeonbane.

 

[Daidre]

Just picked up Evercold. How good do you consider that, @Daidre?

I like crossbows's better crit range so I went for Crossbows on my Trickster run and was not dissapponted.

Spoiler

Plus, good endgame crossbow drops from Nocti and only available to Trickster/Demon.

TTT got Mythic Manyshot that only works with Bows so it muddles balance around Bow vs Crossbow vs Dual Throwing even more.

 

[Yosharian]

You can't get the Cloak or the Mirror? Or just one?

Both items are missing in the integrated version.

Ah fuck. Oh well.

 

[Yosharian]

Just picked up Evercold. How good do you consider that, @Daidre?

I like crossbows's better crit range so I went for Crossbows on my Trickster run and was not dissapponted.

Spoiler

Plus, good endgame crossbow drops from Nocti and only available to Trickster/Demon.

TTT got Mythic Manyshot that only works with Bows so it muddles balance around Bow vs Crossbow vs Dual Throwing even more.

Surely the damage on crossbows is horrendous

 

[Desiderius]

Just picked up Evercold. How good do you consider that, @Daidre?

I like crossbows's better crit range so I went for Crossbows on my Trickster run and was not dissapponted.

Spoiler

Plus, good endgame crossbow drops from Nocti and only available to Trickster/Demon.

TTT got Mythic Manyshot that only works with Bows so it muddles balance around Bow vs Crossbow vs Dual Throwing even more.

Surely the damage on crossbows is horrendous

Why would it be? Aeon Slayer. Holy Lance + Staff of Law + Mark of Justice etc. Do the math.

 

[Desiderius]

Just picked up Evercold. How good do you consider that, @Daidre?

I like crossbows's better crit range so I went for Crossbows on my Trickster run and was not dissapponted.

Spoiler

Plus, good endgame crossbow drops from Nocti and only available to Trickster/Demon.

TTT got Mythic Manyshot that only works with Bows so it muddles balance around Bow vs Crossbow vs Dual Throwing even more.

Mythic Manyshot has been great, though part of that is that it seems to be bugged to trigger on AoOs. Not enough Feats for Mounted Combat with Dual Throwing (did Dual Throw Slayer MC in P:K) so Short Bow’s been very good, just don’t have home for XBow. Nenio’s using Staff and no Aru.

 

[Haplo]

Just picked up Evercold. How good do you consider that, @Daidre?

I like crossbows's better crit range so I went for Crossbows on my Trickster run and was not dissapponted.

Spoiler

Plus, good endgame crossbow drops from Nocti and only available to Trickster/Demon.

TTT got Mythic Manyshot that only works with Bows so it muddles balance around Bow vs Crossbow vs Dual Throwing even more.

Surely the damage on crossbows is horrendous

Why would it be? Aeon Slayer. Holy Lance + Staff of Law + Mark of Justice etc. Do the math.

A bow would enjoy the same bonuses. With Str bonus and an extra attack on top.

 

[Yosharian]

A good archer build should be able to get at least +15 STR modifier, leaving that on the table seems barmy to me

and frankly looking at the crossbows they are not that impressive

also as Hap points out you are not able to use Manyshot

 

[Desiderius]

A bow would enjoy the same bonuses. With Str bonus and an extra attack on top.

Obv. The point is that the STR-bonus is a relatively small part of the total damage. Have to figure out how that compares with the wider crit range. Also XBows tend to have some good procs.

We're talking about Evercold XBow that comes with an extra attack built in*. With an additional Stagger Proc. Don't remember if the Cold 2d6 creates an extra packet like Eye for an Eye.

Unlike Yosharian we're not designing everything around lvl 20 so STR bonus is closer to +6 than +15. Chaplain has 99 (199?) Dino Bones now not limitless as well (Seelah gets Legendary, but nobody else).

* - doesn't trigger TTT Manyshot Mythic, which I'm using, but would have to retrain anyway for PBM XBow

 

[Haplo]

Saying the Str modifier its a small part of overall damage is rather bold.
And wider crit range in a vacuum is the same damage increase as increased crit multiplier of bows.

Of course, we don't live in a vacuum, plus Mythic Improved Critical is a thing, so the extra teamwork procs and Mythic Critical are a small plus for crossbows.

 

[IllusiveBrian]

Does Evercold's extra attack proc on Vital Strike? Never tried it.

 

[Desiderius]

Saying the Str modifier its a small part of overall damage is rather bold.
And wider crit range in a vacuum is the same damage increase as increased crit multiplier of bows.

Of course, we don't live in a vacuum, plus Mythic Improved Critical is a thing, so the extra teamwork procs and Mythic Critical are a small plus for crossbows.

What it means is that you're not getting the same bang for the buck on STR-bonus that you would on two-handed melee or things like Elk/Bismuth (!) because you don't get the Power Attack multipliers at range.



When I said do the math I meant it literally since we can see the damage breakdowns now. I’ve been disappointed on Aru xBow damage before but so maybe Yosharian is right.