Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Like i said nothing to do with euros.Are you ammerimut by any chance?Would explain kneeling before jewish idol.Our ancestors went full retard and accepted abrahamic religion luckily we know better.

Sucking Greta's dick and doesn't even know it.

Sad.

 

[LannTheStupid]

This is the @LannTheStupid redemption arc take. It's like saying Sam is the hero of LotR.

I would argue that the heroes of LotR are Frodo and Sam. The rest are just the team "smoke screen".

Aragorn is the Catholic ideal of the king, but with the Ring still in the world his kingdom would have been destroyed.

 

[Desiderius]

This is the @LannTheStupid redemption arc take. It's like saying Sam is the hero of LotR.

I would argue that the heroes of LotR are Frodo and Sam. The rest are just the team "smoke screen".

Aragorn is the Catholic ideal of the king, but with the Ring still in the world his kingdom would have been destroyed.

But… it wasn’t. Madonna and Child took down Witch King turning the tide after Winged Hussars arrived to lift the seige.



You’ve Californicated yourself so hard you have to bowdlerize the founding myth of the genre to calm the cognitive dissonance driving you mad.

Aragorn is hero(ic) archetype. Frodo/Sam MC. Tolkien showed you how to do it but you were too busy bowing down to The Poz to notice.

 

[LannTheStupid]

But… it wasn’t. Madonna and Child took down Witch King turning the tide after Winged Hussars arrived to lift the seige.

The Witch King's power was granted by Sauron and depended on the Ring itself. Merry and Eowyn killing him were heroic, but not important in the grand scheme of things. Destroying the Ring was not only heroic, but crucial.

The more interesting thing is that neither Gandalf nor Aragorn could destroy it. The "hero archetype" is too dangerous to trust the One to them.

Seriously, have you read LotR?

 

[Desiderius]

Whatever, you're too attached to your magic post-Western dildo to see straight. Forgotten the importance of averting the Eye because you can't avert your own from ShtetlHub?

What I was hoping for in Wrath was a Slavic take from Third Rome perspective with more Teutonic and Asiatic elements. You know something different from Catholic/Anglo LotR.

Instead we got the usual current_year pablum shoehorned into whatever quasi-historical setting was top of the pops this week, with nary a trace of the Russian heritage of the devs/writers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky

Slavs to fashion I guess.

 

[LannTheStupid]

What I was hoping for in Wrath was a Slavic take from Third Rome perspective with more Teutonic and Asiatic elements. You know something different from Catholic/Anglo LotR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky

Slavs to fashion I guess.

Alexander Nevsky was a duke, who - very wisely - decided to go against the German crusading orders - Teutonic and Livonic - but to ally himself with the Mongols and ask for the right to rule from Batu Khan.

Which is a nice twist. Almost like beating the wrong demons by becoming the leader of the right demons and the consort of Nocticula. And then eliminating the crusade in Mendev once and for all.

 

[skaraher]

Kineticist still is as brokenly powerful as in Kingmaker. Cleared the Greygarrison without resting once. Companions are only buffbots and meatshield to help you set up your trip-blasts.

 

[Desiderius]

Kineticist still is as brokenly powerful as in Kingmaker. Cleared the Greygarrison without resting once. Companions are only buffbots and meatshield to help you set up your trip-blasts.

They’re only brokenly powerful to you because you’re wasting your other five characters being buffbots and meatshields.

If you’re soloing with one early-game kinnie time to kick up the difficulty.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I've been oscillating between Midnight Isles and the main campaign. I have to say, vanilla fighters are the bee's-knees. They're so well rounded and awash in feats, as to have no real weaknesses. Mythic feats just make them even more OP. I've made a couple of ranged parties where everyone has every ranged feat available, and it's just stupidly powerful. Especially cleaving shot. Mein Got!

 

[Desiderius]

Aldori Defender/Swordlord is a fun variant if you get tired of base fighter.

 

[Desiderius]

What I was hoping for in Wrath was a Slavic take from Third Rome perspective with more Teutonic and Asiatic elements. You know something different from Catholic/Anglo LotR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky

Slavs to fashion I guess.

Alexander Nevsky was a duke, who - very wisely - decided to go against the German crusading orders - Teutonic and Livonic - but to ally himself with the Mongols and ask for the right to rule from Batu Khan.

Which is a nice twist. Almost like beating the wrong demons by becoming the leader of the right demons and the consort of Nocticula. And then eliminating the crusade in Mendev once and for all.

What Tolkien's Anglo-Saxons were up to at the beginning of the Crusades:

 

[gurugeorge]

Seelah is terribad. Why is this girl is even a paladin ? Her dialogue are also written like a modern zoomer black teenager. Her voice actor delivery is just hilarious tho. If she fails a skill check she go into full Afroamerican accent "It's not just MAH LUCKY DAY"

I actually really like Seelah's backstory, it's quite solid and meaningful. But I can't stand the actress' voice (not that she's intrinsically that bad, just not suited to sounding like a fucking Paladin), and the contemporary zoomer feel, as you say.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I don't actually hate Seelah as much as I thought I would so that's a positive I guess. She's OK most of the part but being mean to Ember is unacceptable!

 

[skaraher]

I don't actually hate Seelah as much as I thought I would so that's a positive I guess. She's OK most of the part but being mean to Ember is unacceptable!

Sosiel is worse than Seelah.

 

[Roguey]

I actually really like Seelah's backstory, it's quite solid and meaningful. But I can't stand the actress' voice (not that she's intrinsically that bad, just not suited to sounding like a fucking Paladin), and the contemporary zoomer feel, as you say.

I don't understand how you can like her backstory but also expect to her sound like a paladin.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I actually really like Seelah's backstory, it's quite solid and meaningful. But I can't stand the actress' voice (not that she's intrinsically that bad, just not suited to sounding like a fucking Paladin), and the contemporary zoomer feel, as you say.

I don't understand how you can like her backstory but also expect to her sound like a paladin.

Because she is one now. In the uh, ?frontstory?

 

[Desiderius]

The Witch King's power was granted by Sauron and depended on the Ring itself. Merry and Eowyn killing him were heroic, but not important in the grand scheme of things. Destroying the Ring was not only heroic, but crucial.

The more interesting thing is that neither Gandalf nor Aragorn could destroy it. The "hero archetype" is too dangerous to trust the One to them.

(heroes are necessary but not sufficient, both sublime and mundane have their roles to play, the Word was made Flesh and dwelt among us)

WK's power depended on the Ring but not just the Ring. The Ring's maker had a maker which Madonna and Child embody, and they revoked it, foreshadowing Frodo and Sam doing likewise in a similar manner.

As far as game design in the genre you've got everything depending on the mundane MC (and buyer of your game) with plenty of room for a hero character (or several) to help one along one's way/turn the tide in the player's favor/inspire the player to emulate their example.

 

[Roguey]

Because she is one now. In the uh, ?frontstory?

Seelah was at least 14 when she stole that paladin's helmet. She's not going to change her entire way of speaking because she's hanging around paladins instead of street people, especially since these were bleeding heart paladins.

The paladins were moved beyond words—they had known from the start that Seelah had stolen the helm, but Acemi had forbidden her brothers and sisters from collecting it, hoping that the helm would bring the desperate orphan enough money to survive for another few months.

 

[gurugeorge]

I actually really like Seelah's backstory, it's quite solid and meaningful. But I can't stand the actress' voice (not that she's intrinsically that bad, just not suited to sounding like a fucking Paladin), and the contemporary zoomer feel, as you say.

I don't understand how you can like her backstory but also expect to her sound like a paladin.

Oh for sure she'd likely still be a "rough" speaker in context - just like she's portrayed as still being quite a "rough" character for a Paladin (fond of drinking and joking with the boys, etc.) - but it's the difference between expecting the speech patterns of a reformed guttersnipe from the 15th century and a Black zoomer from the 21st. They didn't need to do much except not have 21st century colloquialisms and speech patterns. Is that too much to ask?

 

[LannTheStupid]

As a native Russian speaker, I am deaf to various American accents, racist or not. For me Seelah speaks like a person who grew up in a bad district. And that is who she is.

The fact that a petty thief became a Paladin and was accepted into the crusade means, first, that Paladins might and should have different backgrounds; and second, that the crusade itself is desperate enough to have thief Paladins and a weirdo from nowhere as the commanding officer.

The side effect of this is that Daeran likes her. She does not like to be liked by such a person as Daeran, but for him Seelah is a Paladin with a human face under the helmet.

 

[Roguey]

Oh for sure she'd likely still be a "rough" speaker in context - just like she's portrayed as still being quite a "rough" character for a Paladin (fond of drinking and joking with the boys, etc.) - but it's the difference between expecting the speech patterns of a reformed guttersnipe from the 15th century and a Black zoomer from the 21st. They didn't need to do much except not have 21st century colloquialisms and speech patterns. Is that too much to ask?

I don't really recall anything about her dialogue that sounds like it's specifically from someone born in the late 90s.

This does not come across as how someone in the 21st century would talk.

 

[Desiderius]

She's not going to change her entire way of speaking because she's hanging around paladins instead of street people, especially since these were bleeding heart paladins.

She's not just hanging with paladins, she's becoming one. Of course that will change how one acts, including speech. It's kind of the point.

 

[Desiderius]

Oh for sure she'd likely still be a "rough" speaker in context - just like she's portrayed as still being quite a "rough" character for a Paladin (fond of drinking and joking with the boys, etc.) - but it's the difference between expecting the speech patterns of a reformed guttersnipe from the 15th century and a Black zoomer from the 21st. They didn't need to do much except not have 21st century colloquialisms and speech patterns. Is that too much to ask?

I don't really recall anything about her dialogue that sounds like it's specifically from someone born in the late 90s.

This does not come across as how someone in the 21st century would talk.

Stunning and brave.

 

[skaraher]

Not really believable. If you join a religious order/military outfit, especially as a young conflicted teenager, you generally have picked up the mannerism and appearances of it when you're well into adulthood. Those organisations tend to weed out the ones who aren't going to fit in the mold. It's more of an excuse to justify away bad writing (Paladin is the trickiest class to write/roleplay as compelling characters witout versing into caricature) by staying in the generic "teenage adventurer kicking ass" fratsis shtick. What could have been actually good writing would be to let her old past and mannerism surface in specific situations. Like maybe have her using thief slang while dealing with the thieflings, etc.

Having the paladin being a reformed thief is not a bad idea on paper, and the fact that her own past pushes her to hope for the same kind of redemption for Curl could make sense, but the execution in the actual dialogues is very poor.

Also she is from OG-Pathfinder TTRPG so maybe the interesting parts of her background weren't written by Owlcat.

Have her actually fall and devolving to Neutral Good or Lawful Neutral depending on your choices and loosing her paladin powers could have been an interesting outcome for her quest. Missed opportunity for C/C.

 

[gurugeorge]

Oh for sure she'd likely still be a "rough" speaker in context - just like she's portrayed as still being quite a "rough" character for a Paladin (fond of drinking and joking with the boys, etc.) - but it's the difference between expecting the speech patterns of a reformed guttersnipe from the 15th century and a Black zoomer from the 21st. They didn't need to do much except not have 21st century colloquialisms and speech patterns. Is that too much to ask?

I don't really recall anything about her dialogue that sounds like it's specifically from someone born in the late 90s.

This does not come across as how someone in the 21st century would talk.

My topic here is partly about the VO and choice of actress though (or at the very least, her coaching and production). (And to be clear, I'm not one of those who hates all the writing in the game, I've always maintained that it's merely uneven and that it does have some good bits, even some very good bits, same as Kingmaker.)