Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Haplo]

Hi, asking for a little help there. I suck at theory crafting and would like to try a shifter build ; I like the class thematically .

I found a demon mythic path based on Aspect of Kalavakus and trip feats onYoutube but I don't like the demon path

Would something work with Azata or trickster mythic class or would I gimp myself ?

Many thanks in advance

Well, Azata isn't a very strong path for martials, but it can still work. Trickster is okay, its crits are strong, but for a shifter - a pretty feat-starved class already - the 3 feats to spend on the critical hit improvements of vanilla Trickster are kind of a big deal.
Lich would work very well IMO. Aeon would be fine also.

My thanks to you and the above poster.
I'll try to play as I go. I wanted an optimized build for a change from my pathfinder walkthrough where my char was seriously underpowered at the end due to suboptimal build but following strict min-maxing strategies I find online is just no fun. I'm in act 3 with a trip kineticist but bored as hell.

Best melee is Angel. Those spells and abilities you get even for non caster are bonkers.

Angel is fine.
However its far from best for melee. Angel never had much in the way of unique Attack Bonus boosts (gets Divine Favor/Power/Avenger - but other casting classes can access the first 2 as well). Now that Abolish Guile is supposedly fixed, he's also lost his major damage boost vs most enemies. And sure, he gets great buffs overall, particularly defensive. Sun Marked adds a nice chunk of damage to the whole party, Holy Sword adds a little more for himself.


But its nowhere near strongest martial support. In this field he's badly overtaken by Trickster, Lich, Aeon, raging Demon... hell even Azata with the DLC3 ring has stonger melee boosts.

Granted, the entire Angel party works very well due to the safety cushion of the awesome buffs plus SunMarked bonus damage.

However a trip machine, like a wolf shifter, would really want something more in the way of Attack Bonus boosts - as they also boost his CMB. And angel offers very little here (compare with Aeon who also has Divine Favor/Might, but ALSO gets up to +10 AB from Gaze + cloak AND up to +10 AB/damage more on AoOs or extra +6 CMB, Lich +4 AB & MR damage from Fear Control and potentially some 6+ AB & damage from Power from Death, Demon who stacks something like +19 CMB during rage, as well as lots of AB & damage...).

I played melee mad dog barbarian with Angel and that was still my easiest playthrough. And trip is overrated as many enemies cannot be tripped and really big ones and with many legs are very resistant. Vs those enemies you want it the most you will not be able to do it. And vs random idiots you do not need it.

You raise some valid points. Although I'd like to check if with some focus (bonuses pets don't usually enjoy, like full BAB, racial & class bonuses, self buffs) plus support from Mythic paths I'm in fact not able to Trip the "resistant" ones.

Wolf shifter is a bit special. You trip on every attack, can aoe Trip with Great Cleave. You may not need it, there are certainly many other CC options, but I think it can be fun - and also very potent (although currently I don't shoot for Unfair). Strong in CC and in party synergies (every ally in range gets an AoO on Great Trip + when enemy gets up).
Only dissapointment so far is that even with Great Trip you only proc one AoO per character on an aoe Great Cleave multi-trip (unless Kalavakus, I guess - his special likely gets a bonus attack vs everyone).

 

[ArchAngel]

Hi, asking for a little help there. I suck at theory crafting and would like to try a shifter build ; I like the class thematically .

I found a demon mythic path based on Aspect of Kalavakus and trip feats onYoutube but I don't like the demon path

Would something work with Azata or trickster mythic class or would I gimp myself ?

Many thanks in advance

Well, Azata isn't a very strong path for martials, but it can still work. Trickster is okay, its crits are strong, but for a shifter - a pretty feat-starved class already - the 3 feats to spend on the critical hit improvements of vanilla Trickster are kind of a big deal.
Lich would work very well IMO. Aeon would be fine also.

My thanks to you and the above poster.
I'll try to play as I go. I wanted an optimized build for a change from my pathfinder walkthrough where my char was seriously underpowered at the end due to suboptimal build but following strict min-maxing strategies I find online is just no fun. I'm in act 3 with a trip kineticist but bored as hell.

Best melee is Angel. Those spells and abilities you get even for non caster are bonkers.

Angel is fine.
However its far from best for melee. Angel never had much in the way of unique Attack Bonus boosts (gets Divine Favor/Power/Avenger - but other casting classes can access the first 2 as well). Now that Abolish Guile is supposedly fixed, he's also lost his major damage boost vs most enemies. And sure, he gets great buffs overall, particularly defensive. Sun Marked adds a nice chunk of damage to the whole party, Holy Sword adds a little more for himself.


But its nowhere near strongest martial support. In this field he's badly overtaken by Trickster, Lich, Aeon, raging Demon... hell even Azata with the DLC3 ring has stonger melee boosts.

Granted, the entire Angel party works very well due to the safety cushion of the awesome buffs plus SunMarked bonus damage.

However a trip machine, like a wolf shifter, would really want something more in the way of Attack Bonus boosts - as they also boost his CMB. And angel offers very little here (compare with Aeon who also has Divine Favor/Might, but ALSO gets up to +10 AB from Gaze + cloak AND up to +10 AB/damage more on AoOs or extra +6 CMB, Lich +4 AB & MR damage from Fear Control and potentially some 6+ AB & damage from Power from Death, Demon who stacks something like +19 CMB during rage, as well as lots of AB & damage...).

I played melee mad dog barbarian with Angel and that was still my easiest playthrough. And trip is overrated as many enemies cannot be tripped and really big ones and with many legs are very resistant. Vs those enemies you want it the most you will not be able to do it. And vs random idiots you do not need it.

You raise some valid points. Although I'd like to check if with some focus (bonuses pets don't usually enjoy, like full BAB, racial & class bonuses, self buffs) plus support from Mythic paths I'm in fact not able to Trip the "resistant" ones.

Wolf shifter is a bit special. You trip on every attack, can aoe Trip with Great Cleave. You may not need it, there are certainly many other CC options, but I think it can be fun - and also very potent (although currently I don't shoot for Unfair). Strong in CC and in party synergies (every ally in range gets an AoO on Great Trip + when enemy gets up).
Only dissapointment so far is that even with Great Trip you only proc one AoO per character on an aoe Great Cleave multi-trip (unless Kalavakus, I guess - his special likely gets a bonus attack vs everyone).

Also it is not only about AB, Angel gives you immunity to basically everything that will stop you from attacking and it gives good damage bonuses. Sure maybe Aeon has more pure AB but that means little unless maybe for Unfair but this game was not designed around Unfair and original question was not about Unfair. On Core or Hard you can be Angel, go full Power Attack and Mythic Power Attack and with Angel bonuses and immunities you will do best as Martial.

 

[Haplo]

Hi, asking for a little help there. I suck at theory crafting and would like to try a shifter build ; I like the class thematically .

I found a demon mythic path based on Aspect of Kalavakus and trip feats onYoutube but I don't like the demon path

Would something work with Azata or trickster mythic class or would I gimp myself ?

Many thanks in advance

Well, Azata isn't a very strong path for martials, but it can still work. Trickster is okay, its crits are strong, but for a shifter - a pretty feat-starved class already - the 3 feats to spend on the critical hit improvements of vanilla Trickster are kind of a big deal.
Lich would work very well IMO. Aeon would be fine also.

My thanks to you and the above poster.
I'll try to play as I go. I wanted an optimized build for a change from my pathfinder walkthrough where my char was seriously underpowered at the end due to suboptimal build but following strict min-maxing strategies I find online is just no fun. I'm in act 3 with a trip kineticist but bored as hell.

Best melee is Angel. Those spells and abilities you get even for non caster are bonkers.

Angel is fine.
However its far from best for melee. Angel never had much in the way of unique Attack Bonus boosts (gets Divine Favor/Power/Avenger - but other casting classes can access the first 2 as well). Now that Abolish Guile is supposedly fixed, he's also lost his major damage boost vs most enemies. And sure, he gets great buffs overall, particularly defensive. Sun Marked adds a nice chunk of damage to the whole party, Holy Sword adds a little more for himself.


But its nowhere near strongest martial support. In this field he's badly overtaken by Trickster, Lich, Aeon, raging Demon... hell even Azata with the DLC3 ring has stonger melee boosts.

Granted, the entire Angel party works very well due to the safety cushion of the awesome buffs plus SunMarked bonus damage.

However a trip machine, like a wolf shifter, would really want something more in the way of Attack Bonus boosts - as they also boost his CMB. And angel offers very little here (compare with Aeon who also has Divine Favor/Might, but ALSO gets up to +10 AB from Gaze + cloak AND up to +10 AB/damage more on AoOs or extra +6 CMB, Lich +4 AB & MR damage from Fear Control and potentially some 6+ AB & damage from Power from Death, Demon who stacks something like +19 CMB during rage, as well as lots of AB & damage...).

I played melee mad dog barbarian with Angel and that was still my easiest playthrough. And trip is overrated as many enemies cannot be tripped and really big ones and with many legs are very resistant. Vs those enemies you want it the most you will not be able to do it. And vs random idiots you do not need it.

You raise some valid points. Although I'd like to check if with some focus (bonuses pets don't usually enjoy, like full BAB, racial & class bonuses, self buffs) plus support from Mythic paths I'm in fact not able to Trip the "resistant" ones.

Wolf shifter is a bit special. You trip on every attack, can aoe Trip with Great Cleave. You may not need it, there are certainly many other CC options, but I think it can be fun - and also very potent (although currently I don't shoot for Unfair). Strong in CC and in party synergies (every ally in range gets an AoO on Great Trip + when enemy gets up).
Only dissapointment so far is that even with Great Trip you only proc one AoO per character on an aoe Great Cleave multi-trip (unless Kalavakus, I guess - his special likely gets a bonus attack vs everyone).

Also it is not only about AB, Angel gives you immunity to basically everything that will stop you from attacking and it gives good damage bonuses. Sure maybe Aeon has more pure AB but that means little unless maybe for Unfair but this game was not designed around Unfair and original question was not about Unfair. On Core or Hard you can be Angel, go full Power Attack and Mythic Power Attack and with Angel bonuses and immunities you will do best as Martial.

Yeah, these things are very nice. But generally can be substituted with other spells and items (boots with Freedom, fairly early ring with Mind Immunity, Death Ward, a couple items and/or spells with elemental resistances or even immunities).

You will do well as martial angel, certainly - but definately not best. Far from it. Even less so on a Combat Maneuver build.

 

[Desiderius]

Spirit hunters have average BAB and spirit enchantment isn't enough to make up for that.

The Mythic Carnivorous Crystal is one ridiculous troll of an optional fight. Opens with a large aoe that will instakill anyone who fails the save and has over 1000 HP, but a single casting of wracking ray followed by one polar ray will take it out in one round.

It’s a STR-based archetype but that doesn’t really bite her until later.

Weapon enchanting + Bane Weapon + Hampering Hex (Battle Spirit exclusive to lower foe AC by 4 for team even on made save with no immunity) makes her a force to be reckoned with at lvl 8. Just make sure to use Reduce Person and Fencing Grace and she’s gold at lvl 8 when she gets Bane + second attack + Hex kicks up from 2 to 4. She gets Ghost Touch at lvl 1.

Then at lvl 9 Divine Power hits +3/+3. She gets it at lvl 7 for extra attack and +2/+2.

Basically people don’t know how to use one minute buffs because they’re resting like P:K. Spiking is a big part of Wrath success and she spikes hard.

Also she has good crit and activates Outflank often. When you give her that medium armor that gives +4 damage when using outflank she does even better. I usually get Extend spell with her and put Divine Power in lvl 5 slots as well and then use sorcerous reflex to have that cast as swift at start of each battle.
And she can grab Animal Spirit and get animal companion at lvl 16 which lets her move and do full attack.

Precast Divine Favor/Power people. A minute is ten rounds. It’s enough.

Sure but many fights are not controlled by you and for the rest you need to move slowly and carefully so you do not start the fight before you cast it. I rather just run through maps and into range of enemy so turn starts and then cast it as free action on turn 1

Free? Sorc Reflex is Swift and costs a Mythic. If you want to get it free you can use BubbleBuff in combat instacast but that’s kind of cheating.

Doing all your Short buffs precombat with BubbleBuff is painless or unmodded you can just save it for the fights where you need to spike. Burning in-combat actions on pre-combat buffs is subpar play.

 

[Desiderius]

Hi, asking for a little help there. I suck at theory crafting and would like to try a shifter build ; I like the class thematically .

I found a demon mythic path based on Aspect of Kalavakus and trip feats onYoutube but I don't like the demon path

Would something work with Azata or trickster mythic class or would I gimp myself ?

Many thanks in advance

Well, Azata isn't a very strong path for martials, but it can still work. Trickster is okay, its crits are strong, but for a shifter - a pretty feat-starved class already - the 3 feats to spend on the critical hit improvements of vanilla Trickster are kind of a big deal.
Lich would work very well IMO. Aeon would be fine also.

My thanks to you and the above poster.
I'll try to play as I go. I wanted an optimized build for a change from my pathfinder walkthrough where my char was seriously underpowered at the end due to suboptimal build but following strict min-maxing strategies I find online is just no fun. I'm in act 3 with a trip kineticist but bored as hell.

Best melee is Angel. Those spells and abilities you get even for non caster are bonkers.

Angel is fine.
However its far from best for melee. Angel never had much in the way of unique Attack Bonus boosts (gets Divine Favor/Power/Avenger - but other casting classes can access the first 2 as well). Now that Abolish Guile is supposedly fixed, he's also lost his major damage boost vs most enemies. And sure, he gets great buffs overall, particularly defensive. Sun Marked adds a nice chunk of damage to the whole party, Holy Sword adds a little more for himself.


But its nowhere near strongest martial support. In this field he's badly overtaken by Trickster, Lich, Aeon, raging Demon... hell even Azata with the DLC3 ring has stonger melee boosts.

Granted, the entire Angel party works very well due to the safety cushion of the awesome buffs plus SunMarked bonus damage.

However a trip machine, like a wolf shifter, would really want something more in the way of Attack Bonus boosts - as they also boost his CMB. And angel offers very little here (compare with Aeon who also has Divine Favor/Might, but ALSO gets up to +10 AB from Gaze + cloak AND up to +10 AB/damage more on AoOs or extra +6 CMB, Lich +4 AB & MR damage from Fear Control and potentially some 6+ AB & damage from Power from Death, Demon who stacks something like +19 CMB during rage, as well as lots of AB & damage...).

I played melee mad dog barbarian with Angel and that was still my easiest playthrough. And trip is overrated as many enemies cannot be tripped and really big ones and with many legs are very resistant. Vs those enemies you want it the most you will not be able to do it. And vs random idiots you do not need it.

You raise some valid points. Although I'd like to check if with some focus (bonuses pets don't usually enjoy, like full BAB, racial & class bonuses, self buffs) plus support from Mythic paths I'm in fact not able to Trip the "resistant" ones.

Wolf shifter is a bit special. You trip on every attack, can aoe Trip with Great Cleave. You may not need it, there are certainly many other CC options, but I think it can be fun - and also very potent (although currently I don't shoot for Unfair). Strong in CC and in party synergies (every ally in range gets an AoO on Great Trip + when enemy gets up).
Only dissapointment so far is that even with Great Trip you only proc one AoO per character on an aoe Great Cleave multi-trip (unless Kalavakus, I guess - his special likely gets a bonus attack vs everyone).

Also it is not only about AB, Angel gives you immunity to basically everything that will stop you from attacking and it gives good damage bonuses. Sure maybe Aeon has more pure AB but that means little unless maybe for Unfair but this game was not designed around Unfair and original question was not about Unfair. On Core or Hard you can be Angel, go full Power Attack and Mythic Power Attack and with Angel bonuses and immunities you will do best as Martial.

Yeah, these things are very nice. But generally can be substituted with other spells and items (boots with Freedom, fairly early ring with Mind Immunity, Death Ward, a couple items and/or spells with elemental resistances or even immunities).

You will do well as martial angel, certainly - but definately not best. Far from it. Even less so on a Combat Maneuver build.

Disease immunity is very nice and not all that common. AoE long-lasting frees up a lot of slots/buffs and eventually Mass Aegis (?) gives all buffs with single-click. Sword of the Heavens + Divine Power is no joke either.

 

[Desiderius]

You should get a good taste of Shifter from the Companion if you want to play something else with your main.

Gryphon companion is very strong... but also very one-note as far as shifters go (just choorge evry round, without worrying about positioning or line of sight).
Vanilla shifter is much more versatile (if not necessarily stronger). Like Wolf shifter with Trip on every attack offers a very different playstyle - that of melee CC/DD hybrid, potentially aoe.

But companion can Grapple.

 

[ArchAngel]

Spirit hunters have average BAB and spirit enchantment isn't enough to make up for that.

The Mythic Carnivorous Crystal is one ridiculous troll of an optional fight. Opens with a large aoe that will instakill anyone who fails the save and has over 1000 HP, but a single casting of wracking ray followed by one polar ray will take it out in one round.

It’s a STR-based archetype but that doesn’t really bite her until later.

Weapon enchanting + Bane Weapon + Hampering Hex (Battle Spirit exclusive to lower foe AC by 4 for team even on made save with no immunity) makes her a force to be reckoned with at lvl 8. Just make sure to use Reduce Person and Fencing Grace and she’s gold at lvl 8 when she gets Bane + second attack + Hex kicks up from 2 to 4. She gets Ghost Touch at lvl 1.

Then at lvl 9 Divine Power hits +3/+3. She gets it at lvl 7 for extra attack and +2/+2.

Basically people don’t know how to use one minute buffs because they’re resting like P:K. Spiking is a big part of Wrath success and she spikes hard.

Also she has good crit and activates Outflank often. When you give her that medium armor that gives +4 damage when using outflank she does even better. I usually get Extend spell with her and put Divine Power in lvl 5 slots as well and then use sorcerous reflex to have that cast as swift at start of each battle.
And she can grab Animal Spirit and get animal companion at lvl 16 which lets her move and do full attack.

Precast Divine Favor/Power people. A minute is ten rounds. It’s enough.

Sure but many fights are not controlled by you and for the rest you need to move slowly and carefully so you do not start the fight before you cast it. I rather just run through maps and into range of enemy so turn starts and then cast it as free action on turn 1

Free? Sorc Reflex is Swift and costs a Mythic. If you want to get it free you can use BubbleBuff in combat instacast but that’s kind of cheating.

Doing all your Short buffs precombat with BubbleBuff is painless or unmodded you can just save it for the fights where you need to spike. Burning in-combat actions on pre-combat buffs is subpar play.

I always take with her Sorc reflex as Mythic 2 ability, there is not many things at that level that are more useful

 

[LannTheStupid]

I know what you mean. When I've played kineticists it eventually devolves to alpha strike "deadly earth" followed by another deadly earth if anything wasn't in the first area of effect. Now and then maybe a blast, but empowered+maximized deadly earth trivializes most encounters in the game.

Does it make sense to use both empowered and maximized, though? Don't they override each other?

There is a threshold where one metamagic is stronger than the other, I don't remember exact numbers, but I will check.

 

[Desiderius]

Spirit hunters have average BAB and spirit enchantment isn't enough to make up for that.

The Mythic Carnivorous Crystal is one ridiculous troll of an optional fight. Opens with a large aoe that will instakill anyone who fails the save and has over 1000 HP, but a single casting of wracking ray followed by one polar ray will take it out in one round.

It’s a STR-based archetype but that doesn’t really bite her until later.

Weapon enchanting + Bane Weapon + Hampering Hex (Battle Spirit exclusive to lower foe AC by 4 for team even on made save with no immunity) makes her a force to be reckoned with at lvl 8. Just make sure to use Reduce Person and Fencing Grace and she’s gold at lvl 8 when she gets Bane + second attack + Hex kicks up from 2 to 4. She gets Ghost Touch at lvl 1.

Then at lvl 9 Divine Power hits +3/+3. She gets it at lvl 7 for extra attack and +2/+2.

Basically people don’t know how to use one minute buffs because they’re resting like P:K. Spiking is a big part of Wrath success and she spikes hard.

I definately prefer her as ranged Vital Striker nowadays. Goes well with a Rowdy dip - and even better if you respec her to a Shadow Shaman. Later Loremaster will let her pick GVS.
Still has Move action to Chant.


Btw., Vek added Split Hex and Bewitching Reflex in TTT. Yay, witches are back on the menu!

She’s ok ranged but wastes a lot of what makes her good there. I did that to facilitate the meta Snowball build with Winter Witch, which is kind of narrow (but good against Devarra). DEX-based wants to take advantage of the higher AC in melee.

Vital Strike is a really bad fit for DEX-based. Either you’re going small with Reduce Person (which is all upside DEX-based) or big with VS, not both. Her base class doesn’t have the Feats for it either, and VS is bad fit for ranged since ranged advantage is getting full attacks due to not needing to move.

When I finally get around to next playthrough I’ll be respeccing her to STR-based to take advantage of archetype. The other things you’re doing are either lateral moves (Shadow Shaman) or undermining the strength of her archetype (which scales by class level three ways) with the splashes.

Melee doesn't mix with Hexes. You do one or the other. You need to use Move actions to engage or fullattack. If you want her to be an offtank and mostly ignore a major class feature like Hexes, that's fine, but IMO doesn't play to her strenghts.
Ranged VS + Chant to keep up Protective Luck on tank or/and Evil Eye/Hampering Hex on major enemy do work together.

Base Vital Strike might not be great with Reduce - and cost feats. But that's where a Rowdy comes into play. You get it for free and it scales basing on Sneak Attack damage (Shadow Shamans have Sneak progression). Later Mythic VS DOES multiply stat and other fixed modifiers (like enchantment, Divine Power and so on). And Cleaving Shots fire additional Vital Strikes :D ....eventually Loremaster adds GVS and you're golden.

I did same thing with Amiri and Freebooter’s Bane. Hex + Move in one turn. Full attack the next. In Amiri case Bane was Move Action so more flexible. Hexes are medium range (most touch spells are close) so easier to do this than it would be on spells.

You don’t need Hex on most fights so there she just slays (or nukes late if you want to). The point is that Hex is there if you need it (and scales up with level). Archetype doesn’t get the full amt of Hexes and you can use some for passives (like Iceplant) and Feats (Dazzling/Meta), so fighting plus powerful situational Hexes is what archetype is designed to do.

Of course last time I discovered Draconic (AoE paralyze immunity, which was gold for Nulk and fights around that level). Hampering is archetype exclusive so also good fit (not mind-affecting unlike Eye).

 

[Desiderius]

I know what you mean. When I've played kineticists it eventually devolves to alpha strike "deadly earth" followed by another deadly earth if anything wasn't in the first area of effect. Now and then maybe a blast, but empowered+maximized deadly earth trivializes most encounters in the game.

Does it make sense to use both empowered and maximized, though? Don't they override each other?

There is a threshold where one metamagic is stronger than the other, I don't remember exact numbers, but I will check.

Max is effectively double while Empowered is x1.5 which is why it costs more. I think they’re not supposed to stack? but usually have in vanilla P:K/Wrath.

 

[Desiderius]

Hi, asking for a little help there. I suck at theory crafting and would like to try a shifter build ; I like the class thematically .

I found a demon mythic path based on Aspect of Kalavakus and trip feats onYoutube but I don't like the demon path

Would something work with Azata or trickster mythic class or would I gimp myself ?

Many thanks in advance

Well, Azata isn't a very strong path for martials, but it can still work. Trickster is okay, its crits are strong, but for a shifter - a pretty feat-starved class already - the 3 feats to spend on the critical hit improvements of vanilla Trickster are kind of a big deal.
Lich would work very well IMO. Aeon would be fine also.

My thanks to you and the above poster.
I'll try to play as I go. I wanted an optimized build for a change from my pathfinder walkthrough where my char was seriously underpowered at the end due to suboptimal build but following strict min-maxing strategies I find online is just no fun. I'm in act 3 with a trip kineticist but bored as hell.

Best melee is Angel. Those spells and abilities you get even for non caster are bonkers.

Angel is fine.
However its far from best for melee. Angel never had much in the way of unique Attack Bonus boosts (gets Divine Favor/Power/Avenger - but other casting classes can access the first 2 as well). Now that Abolish Guile is supposedly fixed, he's also lost his major damage boost vs most enemies. And sure, he gets great buffs overall, particularly defensive. Sun Marked adds a nice chunk of damage to the whole party, Holy Sword adds a little more for himself.


But its nowhere near strongest martial support. In this field he's badly overtaken by Trickster, Lich, Aeon, raging Demon... hell even Azata with the DLC3 ring has stonger melee boosts.

Granted, the entire Angel party works very well due to the safety cushion of the awesome buffs plus SunMarked bonus damage.

However a trip machine, like a wolf shifter, would really want something more in the way of Attack Bonus boosts - as they also boost his CMB. And angel offers very little here (compare with Aeon who also has Divine Favor/Might, but ALSO gets up to +10 AB from Gaze + cloak AND up to +10 AB/damage more on AoOs or extra +6 CMB, Lich +4 AB & MR damage from Fear Control and potentially some 6+ AB & damage from Power from Death, Demon who stacks something like +19 CMB during rage, as well as lots of AB & damage...).

QStaff Master Angel got there on Core/Hard. That’s CMB + Flurried Full Attax.

 

[rojay]

I know what you mean. When I've played kineticists it eventually devolves to alpha strike "deadly earth" followed by another deadly earth if anything wasn't in the first area of effect. Now and then maybe a blast, but empowered+maximized deadly earth trivializes most encounters in the game.

Does it make sense to use both empowered and maximized, though? Don't they override each other?

There is a threshold where one metamagic is stronger than the other, I don't remember exact numbers, but I will check.

I *think* they combine, but a good rule of thumb when reading my posts is to remember I'm an idiot.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Found it.

If the spell damage is a*d(b) + c then if a*d(b) > c then Empowered gives more damage than Maximized. There average of die rolls need to be calculated, for sure.

 

[Haplo]

I know what you mean. When I've played kineticists it eventually devolves to alpha strike "deadly earth" followed by another deadly earth if anything wasn't in the first area of effect. Now and then maybe a blast, but empowered+maximized deadly earth trivializes most encounters in the game.

Does it make sense to use both empowered and maximized, though? Don't they override each other?

There is a threshold where one metamagic is stronger than the other, I don't remember exact numbers, but I will check.

Max is effectively double while Empowered is x1.5 which is why it costs more. I think they’re not supposed to stack? but usually have in vanilla P:K/Wrath.

Of course they should stack. No reason not to.
In Wrath Empower also multiplies Bolster damage increase AFAIR, which it probably shouldn't. So with Bolster Empower is actually stronger AFAIR.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Desiderius]

I know what you mean. When I've played kineticists it eventually devolves to alpha strike "deadly earth" followed by another deadly earth if anything wasn't in the first area of effect. Now and then maybe a blast, but empowered+maximized deadly earth trivializes most encounters in the game.

Does it make sense to use both empowered and maximized, though? Don't they override each other?

There is a threshold where one metamagic is stronger than the other, I don't remember exact numbers, but I will check.

Max is effectively double while Empowered is x1.5 which is why it costs more. I think they’re not supposed to stack? but usually have in vanilla P:K/Wrath.

Of course they should stack. No reason not to.
In Wrath Empower also multiplies Bolster damage increase AFAIR, which it probably shouldn't. So with Bolster Empower is actually stronger AFAIR.

I think one of the mods cancels the stacking. They should both only effects die rolls so @LannTheStupid’s calculations wouldn’t apply and Max would double expected value while Empower would increase it 1.5.

Both should work on less obvious things like Mirror Image, Undeath to Death, and Summons as well.

 

[Desiderius]

Spirit hunters have average BAB and spirit enchantment isn't enough to make up for that.

The Mythic Carnivorous Crystal is one ridiculous troll of an optional fight. Opens with a large aoe that will instakill anyone who fails the save and has over 1000 HP, but a single casting of wracking ray followed by one polar ray will take it out in one round.

It’s a STR-based archetype but that doesn’t really bite her until later.

Weapon enchanting + Bane Weapon + Hampering Hex (Battle Spirit exclusive to lower foe AC by 4 for team even on made save with no immunity) makes her a force to be reckoned with at lvl 8. Just make sure to use Reduce Person and Fencing Grace and she’s gold at lvl 8 when she gets Bane + second attack + Hex kicks up from 2 to 4. She gets Ghost Touch at lvl 1.

Then at lvl 9 Divine Power hits +3/+3. She gets it at lvl 7 for extra attack and +2/+2.

Basically people don’t know how to use one minute buffs because they’re resting like P:K. Spiking is a big part of Wrath success and she spikes hard.

Also she has good crit and activates Outflank often. When you give her that medium armor that gives +4 damage when using outflank she does even better. I usually get Extend spell with her and put Divine Power in lvl 5 slots as well and then use sorcerous reflex to have that cast as swift at start of each battle.
And she can grab Animal Spirit and get animal companion at lvl 16 which lets her move and do full attack.

Precast Divine Favor/Power people. A minute is ten rounds. It’s enough.

Sure but many fights are not controlled by you and for the rest you need to move slowly and carefully so you do not start the fight before you cast it. I rather just run through maps and into range of enemy so turn starts and then cast it as free action on turn 1

Free? Sorc Reflex is Swift and costs a Mythic. If you want to get it free you can use BubbleBuff in combat instacast but that’s kind of cheating.

Doing all your Short buffs precombat with BubbleBuff is painless or unmodded you can just save it for the fights where you need to spike. Burning in-combat actions on pre-combat buffs is subpar play.

I always take with her Sorc reflex as Mythic 2 ability, there is not many things at that level that are more useful

There are always useful Mythics to take, even on Vanilla. Play the game - it’s fun. Cam doesn’t have many Swifts in Vanilla (modded has Swift Hex Mythic) so Sorc Reflex could be decent there, though Shaman doesn’t get Prayer.

 

[skaraher]

How are Last Sarkorian quest ? Worth it or not ?

 

[Haplo]

I know what you mean. When I've played kineticists it eventually devolves to alpha strike "deadly earth" followed by another deadly earth if anything wasn't in the first area of effect. Now and then maybe a blast, but empowered+maximized deadly earth trivializes most encounters in the game.

Does it make sense to use both empowered and maximized, though? Don't they override each other?

There is a threshold where one metamagic is stronger than the other, I don't remember exact numbers, but I will check.

Max is effectively double while Empowered is x1.5 which is why it costs more. I think they’re not supposed to stack? but usually have in vanilla P:K/Wrath.

Of course they should stack. No reason not to.
In Wrath Empower also multiplies Bolster damage increase AFAIR, which it probably shouldn't. So with Bolster Empower is actually stronger AFAIR.

I think one of the mods cancels the stacking. They should both only effects die rolls so @LannTheStupid’s calculations wouldn’t apply and Max would double expected value while Empower would increase it 1.5.

Both should work on less obvious things like Mirror Image, Undeath to Death, and Summons as well.

... As well as Enervations and similar drain/stat damage debuffs.

 

[Roguey]

I finished the Codex quest. That's what got so many people mad? It's a bit long, but I completed it no problem.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Ember is really shining right now. Her mixture of hexes are doing me very well. Now that my party is level 8, Evil Eye and Cackle are front and center. Stacking that with Protective Luck is just grand. Not sure if Evil Eye was a better choice than Misfortune, but the reliability of no save is great. Mathematically Misfortune is about equivalent to -4, but it debuffs everything. Regardless, I'm not getting much use out of her spells anymore because of all the hexing. I do a sorcerous reflex spell to open but that's about it. I finally got a decent hook hammer for Regill. I've got his AC to an OK place, but I don't know that I'm going to be able to drop Seelah. My MC is proving to be a bit of a carry and it's holding the party back. I'd really like to have my UMDII, but I know that won't be for awhile. I just got ML2.

 

[skaraher]

I finished the Codex quest. That's what got so many people mad? It's a bit long, but I completed it no problem.

What's the codex quest ?

 

[ArchAngel]

I finished the Codex quest. That's what got so many people mad? It's a bit long, but I completed it no problem.

What's the codex quest ?

One where they force you into TB mode even if you are playing RTwP.

 

[Roguey]

I finished the Codex quest. That's what got so many people mad? It's a bit long, but I completed it no problem.

What's the codex quest ?

One where they force you into TB mode even if you are playing RTwP.

Yeah the Fallout reference where not-Lilura inexplicably decides to side with demons and coerce innocent Vault Dwellers into sending her into the abyss.

I was already playing in TB so being forced didn't bother me (though Ember did bug out once) though there's nothing about it I'd say that necessitates turn-based.

 

[skaraher]

Ah its the Fallout one ? Didn't play it. General consensus seems to be that it's trash. Captain Sellkind didnt make me want to uncover more of that arc.