Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

But why give up on two-handed damage and full attacks after movement?

Problem is that if a swarm runs through your group

 

[Average Manatee]

So... you're showing off that you wasted a ton of feats and class levels getting 30 more AC than you needed in exchange for not being able to do 50% more damage on full attacks and not being able to full attack after movement (worth like x10 damage at the end game)? Nevermind the damage and trip a pet would be adding.

Cool I guess. Sunk cost fallacy at work here, those 2 starting feats (which is really just 1 because 1 of those was the human bonus feat) is NOT worth going down an objectively far worse build path.

 

[Desiderius]

Too many people solving problems you don't have.

If you're hurting for damage with 5 other toons you're doing it wrong. That said, Seelah does plenty with one-handed weapons, of which there are *a lot*, and going one-handed lets you use one of the tremendous shields available throughout the game and doesn't waste her Shield Focus. Mounted wastes her AC and Divine Weapon Bond which is a great way to bypass DR or put Keen on some of those good one-handers.



It's unnecessary on difficulties below Unfair but you can even use Bless Weapon and Divine Weapon Bond Keen to crit fish (to set off Outflank chains or just do good damage) with her on Unfair (using the Drezen Scimitar or Lab Kukri) while dumping her AB to up her AC (via Fighting Defensively/Combat Expertise/Tower Shield malus etc...). Turns out with Smite and a good party I ended up not having to rely on this as much as anticipated. Balanced Defender also gets AB pretty high.

 

[Desiderius]

So... you're showing off that you wasted a ton of feats and class levels getting 30 more AC than you needed in exchange for not being able to do 50% more damage on full attacks and not being able to full attack after movement (worth like x10 damage at the end game)? Nevermind the damage and trip a pet would be adding.

Cool I guess. Sunk cost fallacy at work here, those 2 starting feats (which is really just 1 because 1 of those was the human bonus feat) is NOT worth going down an objectively far worse build path.

The original claim was that she made a bad tank. The other is that you're worried about stuff hitting your backline.

That pic solves both problems. Do I look like I'm hurting for damage lol?

Guys, we've all played enough MMOs and Diablo or whatever. Play this game instead. It's good.

 

[Desiderius]

Seelah tank uses Shield Focus to unlock various Shield Feats from Mods and Dodge is eventually prereq for Crane (with Monk dip to unlock Monk shirt if you want).

If you respec her (meh) you'd have that Human Bonus Feat for something else. She solves a lot of problems people commonly have as is.

Mounts are better for getting ranged toons in position to trigger Snap Shots and prevent squishier melee from getting hit. I *want* her to get hit to draw attention away from other targets. It works!

 

[Average Manatee]

Defending 19 levels of bad choices because they don't "waste" shield focus (oh no, what will I do without that +1 AC?) is laughable.

Seelah tank uses Shield Focus to unlock various Shield Feats from Mods and Dodge is eventually prereq for Crane (with Monk dip to unlock Monk shirt if you want).

If you respec her (meh) you'd have that Human Bonus Feat for something else. She solves a lot of problems people commonly have as is.

OK, but a pet invalidates both of those while also adding more damage and giving Seelah more damage and speed. Making it *objectively* better.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

What's a Bloodrager like? Apparently they're magic berserkers who can wear armour and still cast magic?
Wouldn't HKS be a good synergy for them?

 

[Desiderius]

bad choices

We playing the subpar game again? Am I doing badly here? She starts tanking at lvl 6, not 19.

 

[Desiderius]

Defending 19 levels of bad choices because they don't "waste" shield focus (oh no, what will I do without that +1 AC?) is laughable.

Seelah tank uses Shield Focus to unlock various Shield Feats from Mods and Dodge is eventually prereq for Crane (with Monk dip to unlock Monk shirt if you want).

If you respec her (meh) you'd have that Human Bonus Feat for something else. She solves a lot of problems people commonly have as is.

OK, but a pet invalidates both of those while also adding more damage and giving Seelah more damage and speed. Making it *objectively* better.

By the criteria you're using sure.

You're using the wrong ones.

 

[Desiderius]

What's a Bloodrager like? Apparently they're magic berserkers who can wear armour and still cast magic?
Wouldn't HKS be a good synergy for them?

HKS is redundant. I enjoyed Reformed Fiend Aeon.

 

[Average Manatee]

What's a Bloodrager like? Apparently they're magic berserkers who can wear armour and still cast magic?
Wouldn't HKS be a good synergy for them?

Primalist or Bloodrider are what you want. Primalist lets you take rage powers as fast as a full Barbarian gets them (basically invalidates the barbarian class). Bloodrider has a horse pet and anyone on a pet with full AB and a twohanded weapon is automatically a high tier build, you can kind of think of them like a Paladin but Arcane rather than Divine spells and his bloodrage bonuses are worse than smite evil (and nothing comparable to Mark of Justice), though he can have rage on continuously eventually.

HKS, no. 3/4ths AB progression is bad for you and for Primalist it delays essential rage abilities. HKS really just doesn't fit the game because all of their arcane armor training bonuses are invalidated by the fact that arcane casters can just take Archmage armor as a mythic ability. Bloodrager of course just doesn't care about his armor much because lmao pets.

 

[Parabalus]

New dude is Shifter, will probably play with him so I wouldn't want it on MC.

Do you get full attacks after Demonic Charge?

Are normal charges still broken by the tiniest of pebbles, or did they fix that?

No, Demonic Charge is a Move Action, so no Full Attacks afterwards.

Not much has changed in the effectiveness of the normal Charges I think.

But the new guy cheats and has an ability called Death from Above, that lets him Charge without regard for obstacles or line of sight. Also gets Pounce at level 9.

So what would you use to make the most out of Demonic Charge?
Seems like the most fun ability they have.

 

[Average Manatee]

So what would you use to make the most out of Demonic Charge?

Vital Strike build?

Incidentally has anyone tried a ranged vital strike build? Zen Archer vital strike might be interesting if it multiplies your improved bow dice. You're giving up your APR stuff, but you do have Cleaving Shot.

 

[Haplo]

So what would you use to make the most out of Demonic Charge?
Seems like the most fun ability they have.

Yeah, I guess still Cleaving Finish Vital Strikes. Not really a meta build after the nerfs, though.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Is the AI programmed to just not attack your character when mounted? Even since I started using mounts I noticed the AI just ignoring it and walking past him to attack the rest of my party. What's the point of having a tank if it can't draw aggro?

 

[Average Manatee]

They should attack the mount. A few enemy types will prioritize certain characters, not sure what exactly it's based on (AC? Class? Just going for the guy in back?), but 99% just attack nearest target, to the point where you only have to walk backwards (ideally with acrobatics active) for half a second in RT mode in order to lose aggro and have someone else closer take it.

On the whole archers seem to be the ones most likely to consistently target low AC backline characters.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

That's the thing, I've been seeing a lot of enemies just ignore my front line and rush the backline.
Its gotten to a point where Camelia keeps dying because the enemy ignores my mounted character and rushes her down.

Drezen is pretty cool, but its easy to get lost and there's a lot of difficult encounters. I think the hardest so far are Shadow Votaries, who can trap your entire party before you have time to react and then just fireball you to death.

It doesn't help that RTwP mode makes your party members suicidal idiots who walks into danger.
There's one particularly nasty ambush in the temple where a Vorock Votary casts Blade Wall from outside of vision range, which willl one shot your characters. That's kind of bullshit.

 

[Average Manatee]

If you're in melee for something for a long time (in this case meaning, like, more than 3 rounds), enemies sometimes switch and go after something weaker if they aren't hitting their target. Is that it? My normal fights generally consist everything dying within 1 round of my characters getting in melee with them so I don't see it much outside of early boss fights against really high AC things. e.g, prologue/act 1 fights where my pet has 35 AC and protective luck on him so the boss never hits the pet but we're not hitting the boss much either, sometimes the boss will redirect to hit something softer.

Its gotten to a point where Camelia keeps dying because the enemy ignores my mounted character and rushes her down.

Are you using Camellia in melee or ranged?

 

[Cyberarmy]

Mounted characters only get attacked by AoEs or follow up strikes from full attacks that killed something.

 

[Average Manatee]

I think AoOs too if they trigger it by moving out of range or casting a spell.

But 95% of the time you take serious damage as a mounted character its because something CCed you or your mount causing an immediate dismount. Happens quite often early game, there's not nearly enough cloaks of resistance to go around if you have more than a few characters who need them and you aren't immune to most things.

 

[Haplo]

Indomitable Mount feat with high Mobility helps protect your mount from enemy spells/CC.
Having a high Charisma character Oracle/Oracle dip with Nature Mystery and Friend to Animals Revelation helps a ton as well.

 

[Yosharian]

Mounted characters only get attacked by AoEs or follow up strikes from full attacks that killed something.

Which makes no fucking sense at all

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

If you're in melee for something for a long time (in this case meaning, like, more than 3 rounds), enemies sometimes switch and go after something weaker if they aren't hitting their target. Is that it? My normal fights generally consist everything dying within 1 round of my characters getting in melee with them so I don't see it much outside of early boss fights against really high AC things. e.g, prologue/act 1 fights where my pet has 35 AC and protective luck on him so the boss never hits the pet but we're not hitting the boss much either, sometimes the boss will redirect to hit something softer.

Its gotten to a point where Camelia keeps dying because the enemy ignores my mounted character and rushes her down.

Are you using Camellia in melee or ranged?

Melee. She has those recommended melee feats. Thing is that it doesn't matter because the enemy will just past the front line. What I used do is wait until the AI is distracted by my tanks and then move her in, but now they just ignore my tankiest boi and go after the squishies.

I really wish there was a taunt or something.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Mounted characters only get attacked by AoEs or follow up strikes from full attacks that killed something.

Which makes no fucking sense at all

Its probably a programming limitation, seeing as how the mounted + character counts as a single unit and all attacks affect the mount.

 

[Haplo]

There's no Taunt... but tripping pets with Combat Reflexes can intercept enemies trying to run past them...

Or well, you can be the tripper/controller