Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Leper's swarms get owned by bludgeoning. Lightning is for the higher level ones but there is probably other nukes that work. I'm pretty bad relatively at nuking so the nukers could probably help you more there.

Bookworm's Headband is immunity and there's something else I'm forgetting. Unbreakable Heart is a first level spell. It was a non-issue last time through on Unfair. Maybe I used tank Seelah to lure them with her high saves?

 

[Haplo]

Is it worth it for Lann to go 20 ZA, or should I multiclass. He's level 7 now.

It's generally good practice to run the companions straight in your first playthrough to give you a good feel for what you're giving up when you multi-class. This isn't Wizardry 8, but it's a lot closer (by design) than most think,

ZA weapon dice keep progressing with levels, as does the DC on your Standard Actions (like Ki Shout) that you can mix in on turns where you have to move. They also target touch AC instead of full. Cold Ice Strike is a Swift Action.

He picks up two more attacks at level 11 so it least taking him that far is good value. Trying to take advantage of his Combat Reflexes with Snap Shot is probably more trouble than it's worth. He makes a great sniper at 50 ft range since he often gets full attacks in earlier in the fight than those who always have to move into position.

The simplest multiclass he'd benefit from would be 5+ levels in Mutation Warrior. Gives Weapon Training (+1 AB & Damage, +3 with gloves), Mutagen (+4 Dex and +2 AC - unless you're going for Wis - then maybe more Str?), bonus feats, Weapon Specialization (which unlocks Mythic Specialization).

 

[Haplo]

Can someone explain to me why the Kabriri cultists get two actions? The one at the door casts divine Fervor and then instant kills a party member with Harm. Even on a successful save it deals 55 damage. How are are you supposed to deal with that?

They were actually harder than Nabasu lol. I beat him first try with a depleted party.

I guess they are probably Warpriests and use the Fervor mechanic to Swift cast spells?
There are more options for using 2 major actions in this game:

Magus Spell Combat allows this from level... 2.
Quicken metmagic, including Quicken rods and other items.
Some inquisitor, Aeon and Paladin spells are Swift cast by default (like the no save Littany of Eloquence)
Eldritch Knights get to Quicken a spell whenever they land a crit.
Demon Coloxus Aspect allows to cast and use abilities with Move Actions.
MR9+ Aeons do that also.
With the last 2 you can actually cast 3 spells in a round (Swift, Move and Standard actions). Demons can do this relatively early, at the start of Act 4.

Azata Zippy Magic isn't the same, but lets you hit 2 enemies with targeted spells (including Chain Lightning).
Then there are Domain Powers made Swift with Domain Zealot and some Warpriest Blessings...

 

[Average Manatee]

Bookworm's Headband is immunity and there's something else I'm forgetting.

I think it's just Bookworm's Headband, unless there's some other item I'm missing from somewhere.

Unbreakable Heart is a first level spell. It was a non-issue last time through on Unfair. Maybe I used tank Seelah to lure them with her high saves?

Problem is that if a swarm runs through your group you've got multiple people checking their saves who will at best have 70% chance to not be affected. Which is not completely awful until you realize 3 or 4 swarms can do it in a single turn. I think the only good way to really get them is to spam spells like sonic blast/shout that target their non-reflex save. Maybe Deep Slumber would work too, they are low enough level there.

 

[Haplo]

Unbreakable Heart is a first level spell. It was a non-issue last time through on Unfair. Maybe I used tank Seelah to lure them with her high saves?

Problem is that if a swarm runs through your group you've got multiple people checking their saves who will at best have 70% chance to not be affected. Which is not completely awful until you realize 3 or 4 swarms can do it in a single turn. I think the only good way to really get them is to spam spells like sonic blast/shout that target their non-reflex save. Maybe Deep Slumber would work too, they are low enough level there.

If you have two-handed heavy hitters Charge the swarms with blunt weapons. And Bookworm's / Swarmbane / high saves (like a Paladin - but better dismount his horse), chances are most of the swarms won't live long enough to reach the core of your party.
Rather then wait for the enemy, bring the fight to them! They won't cripple your party then!

 

[Cyberarmy]

Also scattering really helps. And AoE spells, bombs makes short work of them with alpha strikes.

 

[Average Manatee]

If you have two-handed heavy hitters Charge the swarms with blunt weapons. And Bookworm's / Swarmbane / high saves (like a Paladin - but better dismount his horse), chances are most of the swarms won't live long enough to reach the core of your party.
Rather then wait for the enemy, bring the fight to them! They won't cripple your party then!

That's ALL I have lol (well, 4 characters). Problem is that it only works for 1 swarm, not the next 3 in the group.

Also scattering really helps. And AoE spells, bombs makes short work of them with alpha strikes.

Scattering works. AoE doesn't lol, see previous discussion. Unless by bombs you mean alchemist bombs, those would work.

 

[Haplo]

If you have two-handed heavy hitters Charge the swarms with blunt weapons. And Bookworm's / Swarmbane / high saves (like a Paladin - but better dismount his horse), chances are most of the swarms won't live long enough to reach the core of your party.
Rather then wait for the enemy, bring the fight to them! They won't cripple your party then!

That's ALL I have lol (well, 4 characters). Problem is that it only works for 1 swarm, not the next 3 in the group.

Hmm, maybe you need higher Initiative to intercept enemies better?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Do touch attacks use weapon finesse? I've been avoiding touch attacks on Camellia and Daeren because whilst they do have good dex scores their strength isn't that great.
If so, where does it say that?

 

[volklore]

Bookworm's Headband is immunity and there's something else I'm forgetting.

I think it's just Bookworm's Headband, unless there's some other item I'm missing from somewhere.

Unbreakable Heart is a first level spell. It was a non-issue last time through on Unfair. Maybe I used tank Seelah to lure them with her high saves?

Problem is that if a swarm runs through your group you've got multiple people checking their saves who will at best have 70% chance to not be affected. Which is not completely awful until you realize 3 or 4 swarms can do it in a single turn. I think the only good way to really get them is to spam spells like sonic blast/shout that target their non-reflex save. Maybe Deep Slumber would work too, they are low enough level there.

There is a cloak that gives immunity on killing blow for a few rounds. Which is okay. Unbreakeable heart is nice in a pinch but you have to set up the turn order so that UH caster acts right before the target, it isn't really a solution.

Slow makes them completely useless though. In leper's it's basically a 50/50 on unfair with nenio and without spell focus in transmutation so on lower diffs should be pretty simple to hit them. Even if you on only affect 1/2 in the pack it will make your life a lot easier. It pretty much reverts them to their release state where you could just 5 foot step away from them, full attack and they couldn't catch up to you and attack in the same round.

 

[Haplo]

Oh yes, Slow should be great.

 

[Haplo]

Do touch attacks use weapon finesse? I've been avoiding touch attacks on Camellia and Daeren because whilst they do have good dex scores their strength isn't that great.
If so, where does it say that?

Ranged Touch Attacks use Dex only.

Melee Touch Attacks use Strenght by default. But if the character has Weapon Finesse feat and higher Dex then Str, then they will use Dex.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Do touch attacks use weapon finesse? I've been avoiding touch attacks on Camellia and Daeren because whilst they do have good dex scores their strength isn't that great.
If so, where does it say that?

Ranged Touch Attacks use Dex only.

Melee Touch Attacks use Strenght by default. But if the character has Weapon Finesse feat and higher Dex then Str, then they will use Dex.

Yeah that's what I meant, melee touch attacks.
Ranged Touched attacks do indeed use dex and even suffer the shooting into combat penalty. Which isn't great for Daeran or Nenio.
I guess I should have given Daeran that touch of death ability from the Bones Mystery then.

What's annoying is that molten orb also uses a dex hit roll even those it doesn't seem to mention it in the spell description. I assumed it was just going to be a weaker version of fireball, but its a missile attack apparently.

Did they change grenades to use a hit roll? I do not remember having to roll to hit with grenades in Kingmaker.

Daeran's default / recommended build is weird. He's clearly a buffer / healer, but the game recommends that you give him weapon finesse and rapier focus, even though you can find a crossbow pretty early on that's designed for Oracles.

 

[Yosharian]

I wish I'd known about Slow being effective against those swarms, that section of the game was fucking horrendous.

 

[Yosharian]

Which actually gets me thinking. Slow works against Undead too, right?

 

[Haplo]

Which actually gets me thinking. Slow works against Undead too, right?

Indeed.
Trouble is its difficult to get Transmutation DCs high.

As an alternative for Druids/Shamans there's also Conjuration Slowing Mud - Fortitude based.
Not that Conjuration DCs are that much better.

 

[scytheavatar]

Which actually gets me thinking. Slow works against Undead too, right?

Indeed.
Trouble is its difficult to get Transmutation DCs high.

As an alternative for Druids/Shamans there's also Conjuration Slowing Mud - Fortitude based.
Not that Conjuration DCs are that much better.

Use Spike Stones for Druids/Shamans. Destroys swarms like they are nothing. Spike Growth is helpful too.

 

[Max Damage]

Difficult Terrain is also helpful against swarms if you can't take the gamble with Slow.

 

[Desiderius]

Problem is that if a swarm runs through your group

Group? Let them see who you want them to see.

his horse

His? Horse? She starts with Shield Focus and Dodge. Get her on the ground tanking with that fat ass. Divine Weapon Bond a Heavy Flail (for Swarms) and slay.

UH caster acts right before

 

[LannTheStupid]

Difficult Terrain is also helpful against swarms if you can't take the gamble with Slow.

Which is really weird because Vescavors are supposed to be flying.

But even Camellia low DC worked sometimes.

 

[Desiderius]

I guess I should have given Daeran that touch of death ability from the Bones Mystery then.

What's annoying is that molten orb also uses a dex hit roll even those it doesn't seem to mention it in the spell description. I assumed it was just going to be a weaker version of fireball, but its a missile attack apparently.

Did they change grenades to use a hit roll? I do not remember having to roll to hit with grenades in Kingmaker.

Daeran's default / recommended build is weird. He's clearly a buffer / healer, but the game recommends that you give him weapon finesse and rapier focus, even though you can find a crossbow pretty early on that's designed for Oracles.

There's a lot of ways to go with Daeran, none of them easy to get a good action econ out of. Both of the Divine casters are idiot-proofed with Channeling Feats to wean people off of the single-target heals they're used to from other games (Channeling is usually a better deal) but those eat up Feats that they don't have many of in the first place (the weakness of those classes).

Most buffing is done outside of combat and if you're playing well healing doesn't come up that often either (MMO-type heal/damage races aren't really a thing) so it's a good idea to have another action econ for them in combat. For early game Daeran that can be as simple as strategic applications of Demoralize. Other options:

(1) Ploinking with that xBow

Never going to do much damage since he doesn't have any other ranged abilities. If you attack enemy casters and archers you don't need Point Blank/Precise Shot which he can't really afford anyway. He has some decent ranged attack spells like Arrow of Law against higher AC foes and is Spontaneous so comes with more casts to use them.

(2) Rapier/Shields

The game has a lot of good Shields and Rapier has a nice crit range to trigger Outflank chains. Being in melee puts him in position to hit enemies with Archon's Aura (one of the best spells in the game) and Channel as necessary. You'd need Finesse, Outflank, and Mythic Finesse to do decent damage along with Divine Favor/Power.

One thing I've done here which takes a LONG time to come online is to go STR-based to save on Finesse Feats and take advantage of Divine Power/Frightful Aspect so he can Shield Bash with the outstanding late-game bashing shields. It's ok but by then he has so many casts he could just cast full-time instead.

(3) Evo Caster

Since Archon's Aura uses Evo DC this is the most natural way for him to go. Worth it to look closely at the different spells he can get through Second Mystery here but divine spellbook comes with good ones like Sonic Burst, Arrow of Law, and Order's Wrath. Never going to have DCs as high as Nenio but good enough for Core and below. Spontaneous gives him more casts than Sosiel so he'll come online for this earlier. Start with Spell Pen and Mythic Spell Pen (also helps Prayer land) then Evo Focus and Sorcerous Reflex. Late game Stormbolts is pretty good with the Rod that converts Lightning to Unholy.

(4) Second Mystery Nature Mounted

This is probably my favorite for a lot of reasons. Not least is it gives him full Barkskins which can free up a party slot.

Molten Orb sadly is kind of a cursed spell. Ember even takes her Blackened malus casting it. Does trigger a lot of concentration checks I guess. Just doesn't do enough.



Daeran comes with Glitterdust as a spell-like ability. Don't forget, it's pretty good!



Since he's CHR-based Mythic Channeling is a viable option.



It's not great having low STR but it's not the end of the world when there are so many other other ways to boost AB/damage.



Cold Ice Strike is a Swift Action if you don't want to burn a Mythic on Sorcerous Reflex.



There's an item in Blackwater to unlock Lightning spells.



Arrow of Law is a solid spell in this setting.



Sound Burst stun is good vs casters since they usually have low Fort saves.



Storm of Souls comes with Ancestors Second Mystery (that also has some good spells). Check out the range.



Holy Smite/Order's Wrath are also great spells in this setting. Just make sure he doesn't get caught in the blast.

 

[Max Damage]

In my headcanon swarms fly low, which explains how they're so fast and still get slowed by roots/web/liquid splashes.

 

[Haplo]

his horse

His? Horse? She starts with Shield Focus and Dodge. Get her on the ground tanking with that fat ass. Divine Weapon Bond a Heavy Flail (for Swarms) and slay.

Yeah, I thought of paladins in general, not necessarily of a specific black paladin womyn person. But of course, considering her makes absolute sense in this game.
Anyway, feel free to fix the devs' mistakes in her build with the respec mod. I'm firmly convinced that mount is the better option for her. Even moreso in vanilla, even moreso when she's supposed to tank.

 

[Desiderius]

All it takes is one TSS dip.

You know me, I always say a strategic dip is the best thing you can do.

On core she's gonna be just fine.

 

[Haplo]

All it takes is one TSS dip.

You know me, I always say a strategic dip is the best thing you can do.

On core she's gonna be just fine.

But why give up on two-handed damage and full attacks after movement?