Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Skorpion]

To be fair unless you have an attacking army from an angle you didnt prepare for there isnt really a need to send orders every day, definitely a few times a week to get stacks sorted and new units to their respective armies but thats about it.
The campaign army map is extremely lenient regardless of the difficulty settings.

 

[Desiderius]

...if by "well-itemized" you mean excellent start, early peak at the end of Act 2 and then 2 full acts of basically nothing, untill you finish DLC3 (IF you have it and get to the end in Act 5), then I guess?
Apart from the end game DLC specimen, many other weapon types have much better specimens in Act 2/Act 3.
The Act 3 fauchard isn't quite a meta item, but its still better then nearly all unique glaives IMO (even before we factor the crits).

There's nothing to compare to the Fauchards in P:K, and I already did crit reach stuff there. I find if I go for variety in Wrath vs P:K I find better things to do because it feels like the good devs were going for that too.

If I'm (a) alive (b) not controlled and (c) connecting in Wrath I haven't found much need for crits on Martials. There are no bullet-sponges like in Deadfire or MMOs..

Glaives have the (full game, which is underrated) Book bonus, along with Marching Terror/Dark Horn (Cold Iron) very early, then various things you can do with Soulshear if you want. It's funny summoning a Maralith if you kill something big with it and has even turned out to be good a few times. Just the extra Babau for free can come in handy. Then you can pivot to Finnean late for Brilliant Energy if you want.

Obv again if voltronning/soloing that's different but even there this last Aeon playthrough MC was effectively soloing a lot of content with Bismuth and a Short Bow. With Seelah near bulletproof and Nenio Weirding the denominator of DPS became arbitrarily large as well.

 

[Desiderius]

[Anyway, killed the dragon. Scripted nonsense aside, it was a pretty neat questline. Only problem is that Greybor's sneak attack at the tower didn't seem to do anything? Still a nice fight though.

Use v to advance time in tough fights, not unpause. Sneaks need flat-footed or flanking to trigger.
I don't use AI control, I just play TB style in RTwP.

I meant more that inquisitors get more mileage out of aeon because of the stacking bane. Of course every other class would be fine, its just that Inquisitors seem to get an extra benefit.

Too much duplication of features (especially spell selection) and Swift Actions can easily get overloaded since only one can be activated per turn.

 

[Desiderius]

This is why you need Greater Enduring Spells and those people who say you don't need it are scrubs.

Don't really see the point unless you're trying to do some kind of hardcore no-reloads run.

This is backwards. Enduring is (much) worse in tinman because it crowds out the options that greatly increase survivability.

I mentioned missing it on the Mephistopholes fight but I think I simply went to the wrong location. Random encounters can be otherwise avoided with Stealth.

 

[Average Manatee]

This is backwards. Enduring is (much) worse in tinman because it crowds out the options that greatly increase survivability.

As long as your buffs are 100% always up, you're generally pretty dang survivable.

There's also the fact that Greater Enduring makes up for not having Abundant Spellcasting since you can cast spells that last all day, then take an 8 hour nap and have a full spell book ready ontop of a full spellbook worth of buffs. So if you really, really want to go through the effort of re-arranging your spellbooks every rest its arguably optimal.

It's a shame that basic Enduring Spells is almost completely useless though.

I mentioned missing it on the Mephistopholes fight but I think I simply went to the wrong location. Random encounters can be otherwise avoided with Stealth.

Most of the difficult "random" encounters are forced story ones. Actual random encounters are like 4 trivial mooks. They can't really post a threat to you unless you're running around with exhaustion and low HP, which you wouldn't do if you were doing hardcore.

To be fair unless you have an attacking army from an angle you didnt prepare for there isnt really a need to send orders every day, definitely a few times a week to get stacks sorted and new units to their respective armies but thats about it.
The campaign army map is extremely lenient regardless of the difficulty settings.

Yeah, like I said, mostly autism. Here I was trying to do the math, picked the worst infantry unit upgrade, didn't even notice it until now. If there was a crusade mod that overhauled things and made it harder I'd play it.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

[Anyway, killed the dragon. Scripted nonsense aside, it was a pretty neat questline. Only problem is that Greybor's sneak attack at the tower didn't seem to do anything? Still a nice fight though.

Use v to advance time in tough fights, not unpause. Sneaks need flat-footed or flanking to trigger.
I don't use AI control, I just play TB style in RTwP.

No I mean during the cutscene. In combat his attacks work fine, its just that after you do the stealth skill checks and greybor walks up to the dragon and hits it it does nothing.
Which was kind of disappointing but its fine.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Yeah, lots of things are also just gated around waiting x weeks. I find it kinda clashes with Crusade mode since you want to be on the world map to send out orders every day.

Or you may want to clear 1 army per week and 1 fort per 30 days so you don't run out of green banners for morale.

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah, lots of things are also just gated around waiting x weeks. I find it kinda clashes with Crusade mode since you want to be on the world map to send out orders every day.

Or you may want to clear 1 army per week and 1 fort per 30 days so you don't run out of green banners for morale.

Each victory adds time to the banner so that's not a problem. I seriously fail to comprehend how anyone can move even close to this slow, the entire Act 3 crusade map is clearable in about a month and would give you almost a years worth of green banners. You'd have to completely remove mage generals and the Infirmary to make it difficult.

 

[Desiderius]

As long as your buffs are 100% always up, you're generally pretty dang survivable.

There's also the fact that Greater Enduring makes up for not having Abundant Spellcasting since you can cast spells that last all day, then take an 8 hour nap and have a full spell book ready ontop of a full spellbook worth of buffs. So if you really, really want to go through the effort of re-arranging your spellbooks every rest its arguably optimal.

It's a shame that basic Enduring Spells is almost completely useless though.

I mentioned missing it on the Mephistopholes fight but I think I simply went to the wrong location. Random encounters can be otherwise avoided with Stealth.

Most of the difficult "random" encounters are forced story ones. Actual random encounters are like 4 trivial mooks. They can't really post a threat to you unless you're running around with exhaustion and low HP, which you wouldn't do if you were doing hardcore.

The buffs I need are, then I spike with rnd/lvl and one minute stuff for bosses. More than enough rest for that. No need for Enduring.

Enduring is 80% convenience, which is made redundant by BubbleBuff. Abundant is nerfed BTW in TTT and I never take it on Spontaneous casters anyway. The available alternatives (especially in TTT) can totally transform the way classes and party strategies play out versus say P:K or similar games. It's both fun and effective to explore those options.

Depending where you are the random encounters absolutely can wipe unbuffed parties on Hard/Unfair, or at minimum leave you needing some rezzes and Restorations which can be a pain. Martial classes with (always on) Armor and Shields have a big advantage in those situations. But I haven't had to deal with that since I started prioritizing Stealth in general.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, lots of things are also just gated around waiting x weeks. I find it kinda clashes with Crusade mode since you want to be on the world map to send out orders every day.

Or you may want to clear 1 army per week and 1 fort per 30 days so you don't run out of green banners for morale.

Each victory adds time to the banner so that's not a problem. I seriously fail to comprehend how anyone can move even close to this slow, the entire Act 3 crusade map is clearable in about a month and would give you almost a years worth of green banners. You'd have to completely remove mage generals and the Infirmary to make it difficult.

The way you move that slow is to fight once with your army then play your party until the next day. Not hard.

 

[Average Manatee]

The way you move that slow is to fight once with your army then play your party until the next day. Not hard.

He said 1 fight per week, not per day. You have to be hitting skip day most of the time to be that slow.

Enduring is 80% convenience, which is made redundant by BubbleBuff. Abundant is nerfed BTW in TTT and I never take it on Spontaneous casters anyway. The available alternatives (especially in TTT) can totally transform the way classes and party strategies play out versus say P:K or similar games. It's both fun and effective to explore those options.

We're talking about the game, not some offbrand modded thing. And its not convenience if you do as I said and make your min/level spells last all day so that you can re-arrange your spellbook. Actually anti-convenience, but a big power spike.

 

[Desiderius]

Yes one per week is stupid.

I did the doubling up spells thing in Nexus where you could get the Hand to reset your spells without resting. It was ok but unspectacular. Abundant itself has diminishing returns already. It's just not that big of a deal. Game gives you the rests to get the casts you already need by mid-game. It's to the point that all the work I did on alternative action econs for casters (like using weapons) in P:K to save casts ends up wasted in Wrath where they can just cast away as needed by the time Enduring would be available.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I finally got through the first circuit of Midnight Isles in campaign mode. Sheesh. It dragged. I got tons of experience, a few good items, and I think I now have 450K gold despite not holding back any spending. Now that I have AT10, I'm unsure about my next level. I'm thinking cross-blooded sorcerer for double dragon damage bonuses.

 

[Yosharian]

It seems that the Aeon is designed for inquisitors. Aeon bane stacks with inquisitor bane and I don't see too many swift actions so far? Gazes seem to be toggles, and this is vanilla.

Not really, Inquisitor is as good as any other Aeon class

I meant more that inquisitors get more mileage out of aeon because of the stacking bane. Of course every other class would be fine, its just that Inquisitors seem to get an extra benefit.

Not really because Aeon Bane only really matters in the tough fights, and in those fights you have enough rounds.

All Inq gives you is the ability to use it a few more rounds per day which is useless because resting in this game is really not an issue.

As an Aeon inquisitor, soon you can use Bane in nearly every fight. And its not insignificant, particularly with the upgrades.

And do you really need to Dispel mooks that you're gonna one-shot anyway?

The last thing I needed in trash fights was Dispel-on-hit, what I needed was more consistency in my attacks, i.e. not rolling 1s, so that the steamroll never stops.

Maybe this is a build design thing *shrug* I guess weaker builds could use more Aeon Bane rounds

 

[Parabalus]

With all the nerfs, which round/level spells can you get to 24h with greater enduring, without mythics? So on companions.

It only applies to spells now, right?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Is there an option to put the whole of Wintersun to the sword? Or do you just punish the chief and leave? I took the Aeon option to break the illusion and sentence him to know exactly what he did.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Is there an option to put the whole of Wintersun to the sword? Or do you just punish the chief and leave? I took the Aeon option to break the illusion and sentence him to know exactly what he did.

Not that I know of, though there is a choice where the town as to acknowledge what happened. Its a punishment if its own.

 

[Desiderius]

Just to re-iterate, at lvl 11 Scorching Ray triggers Aeon Bane 3 times. I’ve used this on Monk (Student of Stone playthrough).

Obv caster can make greater use unless it’s been nerfed since. Bettering Blast, Hellfire Ray, etc…

 

[volklore]

Enduring is 80% convenience, which is made redundant by BubbleBuff. Abundant is nerfed BTW in TTT and I never take it on Spontaneous casters anyway. The available alternatives (especially in TTT) can totally transform the way classes and party strategies play out versus say P:K or similar games. It's both fun and effective to explore those options.

We're talking about the game, not some offbrand modded thing. And its not convenience if you do as I said and make your min/level spells last all day so that you can re-arrange your spellbook. Actually anti-convenience, but a big power spike.

I don't feel like resting is a problem enough in this game that I need to carry more than 1 set of min/level buffs in this game. Even in big dungeons, you get enough corruption heals to rest a lot and I don't even come close to use all of them. I guess if you find the game too generous with resting and want to limit yourself or go for achievement like sadistic game design, then I'd probably pick it up. As it is, I much prefer picking up more impactful mythic abilities like rupture restraints/last stand. For the same reason, I don't really like abundant casting.

 

[volklore]

Just to re-iterate, at lvl 11 Scorching Ray triggers Aeon Bane 3 times. I’ve used this on Monk (Student of Stone playthrough).

Obv caster can make greater use unless it’s been nerfed since. Bettering Blast, Hellfire Ray, etc…

I had fun playtesting aeon bane with alchemist bombs (fast bombs + rapid shot + haste) and destructing dispel feat. That's a lot of dispel checks and saves triggered. Pretty fun for boss killing, and quite good at locking up buffed mooks later on in the game.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

What's a kineticist like? I found a diadem for them a while back. Are they like monks who can use spells or something?
Also, I'm beginning to suspect that maces might be a little shit. Its not that I'm doing poorly with them, its just that I think there might be better weapons.
Still better than picks though, which seem kind of rubbish.

 

[Haplo]

It seems that the Aeon is designed for inquisitors. Aeon bane stacks with inquisitor bane and I don't see too many swift actions so far? Gazes seem to be toggles, and this is vanilla.

Not really, Inquisitor is as good as any other Aeon class

I meant more that inquisitors get more mileage out of aeon because of the stacking bane. Of course every other class would be fine, its just that Inquisitors seem to get an extra benefit.

Not really because Aeon Bane only really matters in the tough fights, and in those fights you have enough rounds.

All Inq gives you is the ability to use it a few more rounds per day which is useless because resting in this game is really not an issue.

As an Aeon inquisitor, soon you can use Bane in nearly every fight. And its not insignificant, particularly with the upgrades.

And do you really need to Dispel mooks that you're gonna one-shot anyway?

The last thing I needed in trash fights was Dispel-on-hit, what I needed was more consistency in my attacks, i.e. not rolling 1s, so that the steamroll never stops.

Maybe this is a build design thing *shrug* I guess weaker builds could use more Aeon Bane rounds

Aeon Bane is also more damage.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

More damage more gud.
Make metal club hit 'arder.

Dammit, I should have gone Aeon barbarian. Just a big dumb Conan type dispensing justice the barbarian Numerian way.

One thing I liked about Kingmaker was the sheer glut of build options they throw at you, and Wrath gives you even more build options.

 

[Haplo]

Just to re-iterate, at lvl 11 Scorching Ray triggers Aeon Bane 3 times. I’ve used this on Monk (Student of Stone playthrough).

Obv caster can make greater use unless it’s been nerfed since. Bettering Blast, Hellfire Ray, etc…

Of course. Although damage-wise ray caster Angel is better: +4d6 Holy Sword per projectile (can be Maximized!) AND 5-7d6 from Sun Marked per projectile (maybe can be Maximized as well?)

 

[Average Manatee]

What's a kineticist like? I found a diadem for them a while back. Are they like monks who can use spells or something?

Not at all like a monk, they are basically dedicated forever ray/nuke spammers craft their own unique attacks. Can pick from a bunch of elements, forms (think ray vs blast vs explosion vs. pulsing AoE), and attach riders like knockdown or blind to these depending on element. Depending on element you can also hit touch AC which makes them super reliable (though touch AC elements deal less damage). They can also empower/maximize/etc their attacks and have a sort of reserve that allows them to do even more impressive stuff a limited number of times per day depending on their CON.

Also, I'm beginning to suspect that maces might be a little shit. Its not that I'm doing poorly with them, its just that I think there might be better weapons.
Still better than picks though, which seem kind of rubbish.

The game is pretty good about supporting a lot of weapon types but the number of weapon types is still way, way too high for them all to see action. Can always respec. One way to do it is to pick a weapon that a companion you won't be taking uses, since companion weapon types are obviously itemized pretty well.