Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Haplo]

Mythic Charge + Pounce, do you apply the divine damage on the rest of your iteratives, i.e., you pop your target, do you continue doing mythic charge damage on nearby mooks?

Similar question for all the weapons that add damage on charges too.

Also, mounted charge + Vulpine Pounce, works? Do you even need it, or do you get Full Attacks for free?

Yes to all.

You do need Vulpine Pounce or another source of Pounce to full attack on Charge. Skald sharing Greater Beast Totem is probably most common.
I like Vulpine Pounce the most - allows using spell like abilities (like teleports), you can charge ahead of the party and still full attack (and sometimes demolish enemy groups before they even get to act).

Spirited Charge and spear bonus only work on 1st strike.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I'm confused about the Enforcing Gazes. I have it activated and it doesn't seem to do anything? I went with the DC version to make it easier to apply debuffs, and there's no mention of it applying in the log. There's not even a test being rolled for it.

Edit : I discovered you can absolutely cheese the encounter with Morveg with undead. I didn't even look it up or had to reload; first thing I did was summon skeletons and he just spent the fight trying to kill them and not being able to hit. Apparently its because of his weapon type though I didn't see that in his stats.
I thought it was the devs playing a joke.
Like "Ha ha, look at this deluded idiot who thinks he's god. He can't hit shit!"

 

[LannTheStupid]

I'm confused about the Enforcing Gazes. I have it activated and it doesn't seem to do anything? I went with the DC version to make it easier to apply debuffs, and there's no mention of it applying in the log. There's not even a test being rolled for it.

A question that matches my nickname: have you tried to use any DC spell or effect while the DC Gaze is active? Did you see any additional entries for the DC check in the log file?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I'm confused about the Enforcing Gazes. I have it activated and it doesn't seem to do anything? I went with the DC version to make it easier to apply debuffs, and there's no mention of it applying in the log. There's not even a test being rolled for it.

A question that matches my nickname: have you tried to use any DC spell or effect while the DC Gaze is active? Did you see any additional entries for the DC check in the log file?

Yes, of course, and there is no modification to the saving throw in the log.

 

[Desiderius]

DCs don't give breakdowns, but you can rerun the fight with it off and on and the latter should show up higher in the Combat Log.

I didn't use DC Gaze much because Aeon want to be attacking to take advantage of Aeon Bane/Divine Favor so used the attacking Gazes more. Like 70% sure DC one is working but wouldn't be surprised if it were bugged.

 

[LannTheStupid]

DCs don't give breakdowns, but you can rerun the fight with it off and on and the latter should show up higher in the Combat Log.

I didn't use DC Gaze much because Aeon want to be attacking to take advantage of Aeon Bane/Divine Favor so used the attacking Gazes more. Like 70% sure DC one is working but wouldn't be surprised if it were bugged.

I haven't played Aeon yet, but is it not useful to have AoE DC increase for all your casters together with, say, Evil Eye versus saving throws on some enemies? When a save-or-die spell procs it leaves a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.

 

[Desiderius]

DCs don't give breakdowns, but you can rerun the fight with it off and on and the latter should show up higher in the Combat Log.

I didn't use DC Gaze much because Aeon want to be attacking to take advantage of Aeon Bane/Divine Favor so used the attacking Gazes more. Like 70% sure DC one is working but wouldn't be surprised if it were bugged.

I haven't played Aeon yet, but is it not useful to have AoE DC increase for all your casters together with, say, Evil Eye versus saving throws on some enemies? When a save-or-die spell procs it leaves a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.

I prefer die.

 

[Haplo]

Been a while, but I though the DC Gaze was working for me. But like Desiderius, I was using the Attack Bonus one much more.

 

[Haplo]

DCs don't give breakdowns, but you can rerun the fight with it off and on and the latter should show up higher in the Combat Log.

I didn't use DC Gaze much because Aeon want to be attacking to take advantage of Aeon Bane/Divine Favor so used the attacking Gazes more. Like 70% sure DC one is working but wouldn't be surprised if it were bugged.

I haven't played Aeon yet, but is it not useful to have AoE DC increase for all your casters together with, say, Evil Eye versus saving throws on some enemies? When a save-or-die spell procs it leaves a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.

Yes, useful. Question if better then the alternative for your party. In a typical party more characters (and pets, summons...) attack, then cast offensive DC spells.

 

[Desiderius]

Nenio was usually my only offensive caster and she got to where she didn't really need the help since she was doing AoE control on non-bosses. Would have been nice for Sosiel to be able to land some too but didn't end up being necessary. Respecced Lann Drovier into Nomad because his Druid offensive spells just weren't getting there on Unfair, and probably wouldn't have even with DC Gaze.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm just gonna point out that this gaze

Enforcing Gaze - Power of Law​

Whenever an ally makes an attack roll, skill check, or a saving throw, and gets a result equal to or less than (1 + half your mythic rank), this result instead becomes (2 + half your mythic rank). Whenever an enemy who had failed their saving throw makes an attack roll, skill check, or a saving throw, and gets a result higher than (21 - half your mythic rank), this result instead becomes (20 - half your mythic rank). This ability has a lower saving throw DC than your other gazes, equal to (15 + your mythic rank).

Mythic Rank 5

is fucking nuts IMO and well worth running, especially once you can run it AND the attack bonus gaze

 

[Average Manatee]

Yes, useful. Question if better then the alternative for your party. In a typical party more characters (and pets, summons...) attack, then cast offensive DC spells.

I'd actually be interested if anyone had ideas for full or 5/6 caster-focused playthroughs. I guess the play would be a lot of summons and selective nuking?

I'm just gonna point out that this gaze

Enforcing Gaze - Power of Law​

Whenever an ally makes an attack roll, skill check, or a saving throw, and gets a result equal to or less than (1 + half your mythic rank), this result instead becomes (2 + half your mythic rank). Whenever an enemy who had failed their saving throw makes an attack roll, skill check, or a saving throw, and gets a result higher than (21 - half your mythic rank), this result instead becomes (20 - half your mythic rank). This ability has a lower saving throw DC than your other gazes, equal to (15 + your mythic rank).

Mythic Rank 5

is fucking nuts IMO and well worth running, especially once you can run it AND the attack bonus gaze

Ehh, is it? Save is so low that enemies will never be affected. For you it turns very low rolls into 4s/5s/6s. For AB if you hit on a 6 then you're probably already mowing down enemies left and right. For hard fights where you only hit on a 15 its useless. So its just win more on steamroll fights. It is alright for saving throws though but hardly something I'd call amazing.

If there's some way to ensure enemies are affected and therefore can never roll a nat 20 on their attack that'd be amazing though.

 

[volklore]

I'm confused about the Enforcing Gazes. I have it activated and it doesn't seem to do anything? I went with the DC version to make it easier to apply debuffs, and there's no mention of it applying in the log. There's not even a test being rolled for it.

Edit : I discovered you can absolutely cheese the encounter with Morveg with undead. I didn't even look it up or had to reload; first thing I did was summon skeletons and he just spent the fight trying to kill them and not being able to hit. Apparently its because of his weapon type though I didn't see that in his stats.
I thought it was the devs playing a joke.
Like "Ha ha, look at this deluded idiot who thinks he's god. He can't hit shit!"

Mouse over a DC spell from one of your casters after having activated the gaze, you should see that the DC of that spell raised by 2. It works.

 

[Haplo]

I'm just gonna point out that this gaze

Enforcing Gaze - Power of Law​

Whenever an ally makes an attack roll, skill check, or a saving throw, and gets a result equal to or less than (1 + half your mythic rank), this result instead becomes (2 + half your mythic rank). Whenever an enemy who had failed their saving throw makes an attack roll, skill check, or a saving throw, and gets a result higher than (21 - half your mythic rank), this result instead becomes (20 - half your mythic rank). This ability has a lower saving throw DC than your other gazes, equal to (15 + your mythic rank).

Mythic Rank 5

is fucking nuts IMO and well worth running, especially once you can run it AND the attack bonus gaze

Ehh, is it? Save is so low that enemies will never be affected. For you it turns very low rolls into 4s/5s/6s. For AB if you hit on a 6 then you're probably already mowing down enemies left and right. For hard fights where you only hit on a 15 its useless. So its just win more on steamroll fights. It is alright for saving throws though but hardly something I'd call amazing.

If there's some way to ensure enemies are affected and therefore can never roll a nat 20 on their attack that'd be amazing though.

Its fantastic to eliminate critical misses and very low rolls, without affecting your chances to roll high. Good martials should be guaranteed hitting on 6+. Particularly with other buffs from Aeon (and enemy debuffs/dispells).

For preventing enemies from rolling high, Aeon has this:
https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Edict+of+Predetermination

 

[volklore]

Yes, useful. Question if better then the alternative for your party. In a typical party more characters (and pets, summons...) attack, then cast offensive DC spells.

I'd actually be interested if anyone had ideas for full or 5/6 caster-focused playthroughs. I guess the play would be a lot of summons and selective nuking?

I was planning on doing an Aeon playthrough like that using the caster gazes (caster level and DC) but I am not sure about the concept yet.
Only thing I am kinda fixed on is I want a court poet in my party and focus on cha/int casters.
Problems to solve is competition for gear, especially spell penetration wise. If playing vanilla, allied spellcaster teamwork feat should basically solve it but it is fixed in TTT.

 

[Parabalus]

Mythic Charge + Pounce, do you apply the divine damage on the rest of your iteratives, i.e., you pop your target, do you continue doing mythic charge damage on nearby mooks?

Similar question for all the weapons that add damage on charges too.

Also, mounted charge + Vulpine Pounce, works? Do you even need it, or do you get Full Attacks for free?

Yes to all.

You do need Vulpine Pounce or another source of Pounce to full attack on Charge. Skald sharing Greater Beast Totem is probably most common.
I like Vulpine Pounce the most - allows using spell like abilities (like teleports), you can charge ahead of the party and still full attack (and sometimes demolish enemy groups before they even get to act).

Spirited Charge and spear bonus only work on 1st strike.

But first strike will still propagate with cleaving finish, right? Hence demolishing enemy groups.

Which weapons benefit from double charge damage, just longspears? Glaives?

Can you use lunge while mounted? Thinking about how different the threatened area is between on-foot serpentine bloodrager vs mounted cavalier.

Which teleports can you use while mounted?

 

[Haplo]

Mythic Charge + Pounce, do you apply the divine damage on the rest of your iteratives, i.e., you pop your target, do you continue doing mythic charge damage on nearby mooks?

Similar question for all the weapons that add damage on charges too.

Also, mounted charge + Vulpine Pounce, works? Do you even need it, or do you get Full Attacks for free?

Yes to all.

You do need Vulpine Pounce or another source of Pounce to full attack on Charge. Skald sharing Greater Beast Totem is probably most common.
I like Vulpine Pounce the most - allows using spell like abilities (like teleports), you can charge ahead of the party and still full attack (and sometimes demolish enemy groups before they even get to act).

Spirited Charge and spear bonus only work on 1st strike.

But first strike will still propagate with cleaving finish, right? Hence demolishing enemy groups.

Frankly I don't think so, nowadays. But in vanilla, maybe?

Which weapons benefit from double charge damage, just longspears? Glaives?

Just longspears and regular spears AFAIK.

Can you use lunge while mounted? Thinking about how different the threatened area is between on-foot serpentine bloodrager vs mounted cavalier.

Sure you can.

Which teleports can you use while mounted?

Nearly all? Well, frankly not sure about Demonic Charge.
And one problem is that active Rage (most common Pounce source, among other things), blocks most of them.

 

[Parabalus]

Mythic Charge + Pounce, do you apply the divine damage on the rest of your iteratives, i.e., you pop your target, do you continue doing mythic charge damage on nearby mooks?

Similar question for all the weapons that add damage on charges too.

Also, mounted charge + Vulpine Pounce, works? Do you even need it, or do you get Full Attacks for free?

Yes to all.

You do need Vulpine Pounce or another source of Pounce to full attack on Charge. Skald sharing Greater Beast Totem is probably most common.
I like Vulpine Pounce the most - allows using spell like abilities (like teleports), you can charge ahead of the party and still full attack (and sometimes demolish enemy groups before they even get to act).

Spirited Charge and spear bonus only work on 1st strike.

But first strike will still propagate with cleaving finish, right? Hence demolishing enemy groups.

Frankly I don't think so, nowadays. But in vanilla, maybe?

Which weapons benefit from double charge damage, just longspears? Glaives?

Just longspears and regular spears AFAIK.

Can you use lunge while mounted? Thinking about how different the threatened area is between on-foot serpentine bloodrager vs mounted cavalier.

Sure you can.

Which teleports can you use while mounted?

Nearly all? Well, frankly not sure about Demonic Charge.
And one problem is that active Rage (most common Pounce source, among other things), blocks most of them.

Thanks.

Think I'll just go with Kitsune Gendarme with Glaive/Longspears, can always respec if something doesn't work.

 

[Haplo]

Thanks.

Think I'll just go with Kitsune Gendarme with Glaive/Longspears, can always respec if something doesn't work.

Glaives would be a very sub-par choice.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

That aeon aura feature seems inconsistent.
Daeran, Arue and Camelia doesn't have it even though in dialogue they do, but Woljif is pratically glowing.
I kind of understand it for Arue though because she is repentant.

That quest was pretty fun. A lot of large demons, but they had very exploitable weaknesses. For example, I turned the a Deraki and a Retriever into a dog. It could still shoot lasers though, which was kind of bullshit but whatever.
The hag was weak to grease too, which was hilarious to watch.

 

[volklore]

That aeon aura feature seems inconsistent.
Daeran, Arue and Camelia doesn't have it even though in dialogue they do, but Woljif is pratically glowing.
I kind of understand it for Arue though because she is repentant.

That quest was pretty fun. A lot of large demons, but they had very exploitable weaknesses. For example, I turned the a Deraki and a Retriever into a dog. It could still shoot lasers though, which was kind of bullshit but whatever.
The hag was weak to grease too, which was hilarious to watch.

Baleful polymorph bugs out sometimes and it takes a round before the enemy stops using special abilities. It's pretty annoying.

 

[Average Manatee]

Its fantastic to eliminate critical misses and very low rolls, without affecting your chances to roll high. Good martials should be guaranteed hitting on 6+. Particularly with other buffs from Aeon (and enemy debuffs/dispells)

Critical misses aren't a problem unless you're doing something like a Vital Strike build where missing means you wasted your whole turn. Otherwise any enemy you hit 95% of the time is trivially easy already and you're only getting a 5% boost out of it. You'd vastly prefer just +1 AB because then if you run into the odd enemy that is 15 AC higher your hit rate goes from 25% to 30%, which is a 20% improvement. And that's basically the whole story of WotR difficulty, you casually chunking your way through 100 enemies that you hit on a 5 until you run into a brickwall that requires 15+ to hit who has mirror image and requires you to spend some more effort buffing to take down. You should prepare more for the latter.

I was planning on doing an Aeon playthrough like that using the caster gazes (caster level and DC) but I am not sure about the concept yet.
Only thing I am kinda fixed on is I want a court poet in my party and focus on cha/int casters.
Problems to solve is competition for gear, especially spell penetration wise. If playing vanilla, allied spellcaster teamwork feat should basically solve it but it is fixed in TTT.

Yeah. My problem is that my spell nuking game is always very bumpy with a few levels where my casters do basically nothing but cause a mild itch to enemies. With worse equipment loadouts that would only be magnified. At the same time I'm not sure exactly how far high you could stack spellcaster buffs with certain classes like Court Poet.

Another problem is that there's not really good companion classing options to divert them to being a better caster the same way you can martials or hybrids. You're just always way behind, and casting is more reliant on base stats than physical stats which are easy to buffs (and AB gets more buffs than DC).

 

[Desiderius]

Think I'll just go with Kitsune Gendarme with Glaive/Longspears, can always respec if something doesn't work.

Glaives would be a very sub-par choice.

MC gets passive Glaive bonus from book in Maze, and they're well-itemized throughout the game. Depends how much you want to rely on crits. TTT gives Lance bonuses to Longspear I think?

Hate to waste a Martial class on that though. Make sure you have a specific reason for those extra Feats if you go Gendarme, it gives up a *lot* for them.

 

[Average Manatee]

Hate to waste a Martial class on that though.

Yeah. If you're gonna waste a feat for anything I think you should be getting 18-20 base crit range out of it. In that instance you can justify it as just picking improved critical a 2nd time.

 

[Desiderius]

I'd actually be interested if anyone had ideas for full or 5/6 caster-focused playthroughs. I guess the play would be a lot of summons and selective nuking?

Aeon Bane triggers on Rays (including on each of multiples), so that's probably the way to go. Court Poet buffs CHR/INT for team as well as adding damage to all rolls.

I did Azata for Court Poet run but Aeon may well be better if you like the pew pew.