Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, isn't the towershield just rubbish in WoTR? It weighs so much, requires a feat and doesn't even give you that much AC.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

You don't identify Finnean when you do that...when did you encounter this bug?

Fuck if I remember, but it definitely used to work because I remember cheesing it until I got some anti-dragon bonus to help with the other dragon in act 3.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, isn't the towershield just rubbish in WoTR? It weighs so much, requires a feat and doesn't even give you that much AC.

In general, yeah. Also I think there are unique heavy shields with more interesting properties (like some decent auras). Plus you can shield bash with them.

Overall, I firmy believe that using any shield while mounted is bad. A big part of the attractiveness of mounted combat is that you can generally ignore defenses and fully focus on offence instead (can pick mounted combat & indomitable mount with decent Mobility to protect the mount, though).

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, which is a pity, because mounted heavy knights are cool. Apparently mounts as less OP on the table top because the rider can still be attacked normally.
I think in subsequent playthroughs I won't use mounts. Pets sure, but not mounts. They're a little too jank for me and kind of OP.
Well, except for Azata because apparently you get a dragon you can ride. I might as well build for a mount then.

What sort of playstyle fits Azata anyway?

Angel is great for divine casters, especially full ones
Lich is great for arcane casters, especially full ones
Aeon is great for support and has a lot of swift actions, and if you go inquisitor you get a stupid amount of bane charges so you can basically have it on every fight.

So what is Azata, Demon and Trickster good at?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Trickster is great with physical damage dealers, Azata is great for versatility, and Demon is great for quitting in frustration when your rage runs out again.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Isn't Trickster the Lol Random path though? How does it benefit physical damage dealers?

 

[Haplo]

Angel is great for divine casters, especially full ones

But also martial focused parties, and also parties with multi-ray blasters, such as Battering Blast (SunMarked!)

Lich is great for arcane casters, especially full ones

But also gishes (!) and tanks. Its actually better for gishes then dedicated DC casters.

Aeon is great for support and has a lot of swift actions, and if you go inquisitor you get a stupid amount of bane charges so you can basically have it on every fight.

Well, all kinds of martials benefit, really. Archers perhaps the most, considering their AB deficiency and lack of ability to use Crusader's Edge. Can work okay for mutli-ray casters.

So what is Azata, Demon and Trickster good at?

Azata and demon are the strongest paths for dedicated DC casters and blasters. Demon peaks higher, but is limited to shorther bursts. Also doesn't support Charisma casters that well.
Demon is also one of the strongest paths for martial characters, particularly chargers, users of Combat Maneuvers and Vital Strikers. Plus Earth Kineticists.
Azata makes the best Eldritch Archers. Late game passable martial performance with the DLC3 ring - but late, plain and unimpressive. Note you need Reduce Person to ride Aivu before late game.

Trickster generally is the martial powerhouse. And vanilla Trickster shares that with the rest of the party. Vanilla Trickster special Perception 2 critical feats make critical hit rates and damages skyrocket - and enable crazy critsplosions with the teamwork crit feats (mainly Outflank). Also makes ray casters much more deadly. Completely Normal Spell makes spell slot management in the party far easier and better plus allows easier application of other metamagics to make one's spells stronger. Doesn't do much for DC casters, though.

Mobility 2 Trickster with proper focus dominates most encounters on his own with 20++ attacks of Opportunity vs flat footed enemies. Later on, Persuasion 3 puts the game on autopilot (and before that, Persuasion 1 is the best method to make enemies Shaken or Feared). Other Tricks offer some nifty things as well (if not as game-changing). Like Trickery dispells or UMD3 full wizard spellbook.

 

[Yosharian]

Azata makes an extremely powerful blaster caster, possibly the strongest in the game

 

[Haplo]

Azata makes an extremely powerful blaster caster, possibly the strongest in the game

Eh, its still not as good as Storm of Justice spam. Requires investments and comes online later too.
But yeah, Azatas make pretty cool dedicated casters.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah but come on, Angel is basically a cheat code

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Can you gish as a full arcane caster as Lich? I like spellswords, but the magus caps out at level 6 spells.

 

[Delterius]

Isn't Trickster the Lol Random path though? How does it benefit physical damage dealers?

It's not and it's arguably the second best for physical fighters. Legend is only better because it can use all of Trickster powers. Ie the secret feats.

If you can build around using a weapon to kill people then you can hyper crit all the time and one shot most enemies. This includes blasters who use rays. More importantly this is a boost for the whole party, not just you.

Trickster is not the lol random path, even narratively. It literally looks at the camera and explains its motivations for everything it does. To understand Trickster, take a second look at the Trickster option when talking to Nurah.

Doesn't do much for DC casters, though.

God I wish you could make an enchantment trickster. But I guess that will forever be the realm of Demon and Devilzata.

 

[Parabalus]

You don't identify Finnean when you do that...when did you encounter this bug?

Fuck if I remember, but it definitely used to work because I remember cheesing it until I got some anti-dragon bonus to help with the other dragon in act 3.

Also (used to at least) work with all items you craft from crusade evets.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Hmm...so if I wanted to go a Guts build, would it be better and more to his character to go Demon -> Legend or Trickster -> Legend?

 

[Yosharian]

Demon into Legend is very thematic, especially if you romance Arue, but it doesn't offer much in the mechanical sense AFAIK, I think you lose nearly all your powers

Trickster is just a meme path but it is probably the most powerful Legend option

Problem is Legend is mostly at the end of the game and isn't really as good as just sticking with your path except for a few specific builds

 

[Haplo]

Yeah but come on, Angel is basically a cheat code

Nuker oracle angel - yes.
Its not the only type of angel that can be played

...also there's Persuasion 3 Trickster
...and Trick Fate with Completely Normal Spell

 

[Haplo]

Isn't Trickster the Lol Random path though? How does it benefit physical damage dealers?

It's not and it's arguably the second best for physical fighters. Legend is only better because it can use all of Trickster powers. Ie the secret feats.

Its not 2nd best. Legend is not better when Trick Fate exists.
Plus it cannot touch a Mobility Trickster's number of attacks or... battlefield Mobility.

I'd even rate martial Aeon higher to be honest (end game, when Legend becomes available). Enemies are quite helpless against it.

 

[Haplo]

Can you gish as a full arcane caster as Lich? I like spellswords, but the magus caps out at level 6 spells.

Yes. Generally you use 10 levels of Eldritch Knight Prestige Class for this (Full BAB). Can also dip 3 levels in Hellknight Signifier (if you want to wear armor) or 4 in Dragon Disciple + 1 Scaled Fist (if Sorc Cha based and without armor).
Can be of wizard, sorcerer, arcanist or even witch flavour. Though Arcanist's limited memorized spell slots would be very painful in vanilla.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

What does EK do that HKS doesn't? Doesn't HKS give you a bunch of resistances and immunities?

 

[Haplo]

What does EK do that HKS doesn't? Doesn't HKS give you a bunch of resistances and immunities?

Full BAB, bonus feats, access to fighter restricted feats, free Quickened spell (or spell effect proc, like Move trough Space to freely teleport) when you score a crit...
HKS has comparatively very low value - its only use is getting rid of Arcane Spell Failure from wearing armor.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Trickster is, ironically, the least "random" path and there is an excellent synergy in his kit.

I never tried Legend, does BAB stack when you get Legend, or how does that work?

 

[Haplo]

Trickster is, ironically, the least "random" path and there an excellent synergy in his kit.

I never tried Leend, does BAB stack when you get Legend, or how does that work?

Yes, it fully stacks. And you continue to get iteratives.
What does not stack is caster level. Although Prestige class levels taken before you become a Legend do increase the cap.

In addition you do not loose Trickster specific unique feats (or feats taken trough World 3).
In case of merged spellbook (divine angel or arcane lich), you also get to keep the Mythic Spells you've scribed/learned. A legend lich can be very strong.

Demon and Aeon Legends don't get to keep anything.

 

[Yosharian]

Extra iteratives is rarely more useful than stuff that mythic paths provide, that's the sad truth. You're either hitting the target, in which case it's probably dead soon, or you aren't because of things which extra BAB or APR aren't going to fix

 

[Parabalus]

Can you gish as a full arcane caster as Lich? I like spellswords, but the magus caps out at level 6 spells.

Yes. Generally you use 10 levels of Eldritch Knight Prestige Class for this. Can also dip 3 levels in Hellknight Signifier (if you want to wear armor) or 4 in Dragon Disciple + 1 Scaled Fist (if Cha based and without armor).

Any options if you want to ride a pet?

 

[Haplo]

Can you gish as a full arcane caster as Lich? I like spellswords, but the magus caps out at level 6 spells.

Yes. Generally you use 10 levels of Eldritch Knight Prestige Class for this. Can also dip 3 levels in Hellknight Signifier (if you want to wear armor) or 4 in Dragon Disciple + 1 Scaled Fist (if Cha based and without armor).

Any options if you want to ride a pet?

Eh, a mostly pure Sylvan Sorcerer? But that's not really a gish then.

With TTT you can get Animal Ally or even Horse Master.