Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

All this shit is mid-game at the earliest. You guys don’t know what broken means.

I’m not saying that Assassin Poison is broken (lol) but that +10 early game Radiance etc was good analogy for something that is and he nailed the cope people come up with for that kind of thing pretty well.

 

[Rhobar121]

All this shit is mid-game at the earliest. You guys don’t know what broken means.

I’m not saying that Assassin Poison is broken (lol) but that +10 early game Radiance etc was good analogy for something that is and he nailed the cope people come up with for that kind of thing pretty well.

The end of Act 2 isn't even halfway through the game

 

[Desiderius]

Impossible Domain is bad actually, however many you can choose. Why duplicate when you can accentuate? Expanded was fixed.

Merge is dumb but that was nerfed to some extent too IIRC and doesn’t trivialize the game as much as simply being better than alternatives.

 

[mediocrepoet]

All this shit is mid-game at the earliest. You guys don’t know what broken means.

I’m not saying that Assassin Poison is broken (lol) but that +10 early game Radiance etc was good analogy for something that is and he nailed the cope people come up with for that kind of thing pretty well.

So... it's a good analogy for something else that you would get at level 1 and not what he's whining about. Ok.

Guess you got us again, Desiduder.

 

[Desiderius]

It's a good analogy for why brokenness is bad.

People not understanding what broken means is a different issue.

 

[Rhobar121]

Impossible Domain is bad actually, however many you can choose. Why duplicate when you can accentuate? Expanded was fixed.

Merge is dumb but that was nerfed to some extent too IIRC and doesn’t trivialize the game as much as simply being better than alternatives.

You've got to be kidding me, merge is still ultra broken and you might as well set the game to easy once you unlock it.
Neither the bolt of justice nor the storm of justice have been weakened in any way and they are the ones causing the most problems.
There is no reason not to spam these skills once you unlock them.
We are talking here about a spell that deals 1d8 per caster level without any saves, and practically no enemies are resistant to this type of damage.
As a bonus, it can also knock down or weaken enemies it hits.
Of course, it also bypasses any spell resistance.
This alone is broken and I haven't mentioned any other spells.

As for the imposible domain, they are broken. Find me another way to increase both attack and saves so much at a low cost.
These are skills that scale very well throughout the game.
Of course I can make Sosiel a shitty fighter, but why?

 

[Yosharian]

Just don't use Bolt/Storm of Justice and it's fine!

 

[Lacrymas]

Is there a build that isn't broken in this game?

 

[Rhobar121]

Just don't use Bolt/Storm of Justice and it's fine!

The game is fine, just don't use these specific items, feats, spells, domains, classes, mythic powers, mythic paths.
At this point you are left with less than half of your options.

 

[Rhobar121]

Is there a build that isn't broken in this game?

The current implementation of assassin certainly falls into this category.
In addition, about half of the classes and subclasses that were implemented for some reason are complete crap and are not worth using.
The simplest example is the paladin and its subclass. Choose any subclass and you'll end up with a much weaker character than the basic paladin.

 

[Parabalus]

Impossible Domain is bad actually, however many you can choose. Why duplicate when you can accentuate? Expanded was fixed.

Merge is dumb but that was nerfed to some extent too IIRC and doesn’t trivialize the game as much as simply being better than alternatives.

You've got to be kidding me, merge is still ultra broken and you might as well set the game to easy once you unlock it.
Neither the bolt of justice nor the storm of justice have been weakened in any way and they are the ones causing the most problems.
There is no reason not to spam these skills once you unlock them.
We are talking here about a spell that deals 1d8 per caster level without any saves, and practically no enemies are resistant to this type of damage.
As a bonus, it can also knock down or weaken enemies it hits.
Of course, it also bypasses any spell resistance.
This alone is broken and I haven't mentioned any other spells.

As for the imposible domain, they are broken. Find me another way to increase both attack and saves so much at a low cost.
These are skills that scale very well throughout the game.
Of course I can make Sosiel a shitty fighter, but why?

But mobs lategame have >1k HP regularly, 30d8 isn't much really.

 

[Rhobar121]

Impossible Domain is bad actually, however many you can choose. Why duplicate when you can accentuate? Expanded was fixed.

Merge is dumb but that was nerfed to some extent too IIRC and doesn’t trivialize the game as much as simply being better than alternatives.

You've got to be kidding me, merge is still ultra broken and you might as well set the game to easy once you unlock it.
Neither the bolt of justice nor the storm of justice have been weakened in any way and they are the ones causing the most problems.
There is no reason not to spam these skills once you unlock them.
We are talking here about a spell that deals 1d8 per caster level without any saves, and practically no enemies are resistant to this type of damage.
As a bonus, it can also knock down or weaken enemies it hits.
Of course, it also bypasses any spell resistance.
This alone is broken and I haven't mentioned any other spells.

As for the imposible domain, they are broken. Find me another way to increase both attack and saves so much at a low cost.
These are skills that scale very well throughout the game.
Of course I can make Sosiel a shitty fighter, but why?

But mobs lategame have >1k HP regularly, 30d8 isn't much really.

You should count it more like 60d8 because quicken metamagic rod exists. There are additional bonuses like Sword of Heaven for free 4d8 (with cloak) per cast.
If anything survives, it will die in the next turn or be finished off by companions.
Of course, you can also mark your dominance and use metamagic for greater overkill.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Is there a build that isn't broken in this game?

I mean if you don't specifically try to do a very specific, specialist build, usually the build just comes out... OK?

Like some Vital Strike meme, or Haplo amazing Dimension Charge thing, or ultra focus on Weird to one shot people. Stuff like those.

And you can very well finish the game on Core and Hard with just OKish build (well Hard will be Hard tho due to the number inflation).

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Usually builds come out okay, because Mythic paths are so strong you'll ultimately always end up overpowered. But the whole point of build-porn game is to build weird shit, and Owlcat keeps releasing more weird shit instead of fixing all the broken weird shit.

 

[Parabalus]

Impossible Domain is bad actually, however many you can choose. Why duplicate when you can accentuate? Expanded was fixed.

Merge is dumb but that was nerfed to some extent too IIRC and doesn’t trivialize the game as much as simply being better than alternatives.

You've got to be kidding me, merge is still ultra broken and you might as well set the game to easy once you unlock it.
Neither the bolt of justice nor the storm of justice have been weakened in any way and they are the ones causing the most problems.
There is no reason not to spam these skills once you unlock them.
We are talking here about a spell that deals 1d8 per caster level without any saves, and practically no enemies are resistant to this type of damage.
As a bonus, it can also knock down or weaken enemies it hits.
Of course, it also bypasses any spell resistance.
This alone is broken and I haven't mentioned any other spells.

As for the imposible domain, they are broken. Find me another way to increase both attack and saves so much at a low cost.
These are skills that scale very well throughout the game.
Of course I can make Sosiel a shitty fighter, but why?

But mobs lategame have >1k HP regularly, 30d8 isn't much really.

You should count it more like 60d8 because quicken metamagic rod exists. There are additional bonuses like Sword of Heaven for free 4d8 (with cloak) per cast.
If anything survives, it will die in the next turn or be finished off by companions.
Of course, you can also mark your dominance and use metamagic for greater overkill.

Sounds like this hinges upon rest spamming.

 

[Average Manatee]

Sounds like this hinges upon rest spamming.

If you fully commit to blasting and use metamagic to use most/all of your spell slots each level you can have like 30 casts

 

[easychord]

If they really care about balance, all the playtesting balance nerds are focussing on Pathfinder 2e, not mythic build casters in 1e.

 

[Rhobar121]

If they really care about balance, all the playtesting balance nerds are focussing on Pathfinder 2e, not mythic build casters in 1e.

Which is much better than the delayed 1e

 

[easychord]

If they really care about balance, all the playtesting balance nerds are focussing on Pathfinder 2e, not mythic build casters in 1e.

Which is much better than the delayed 1e

Opinions are split on 2e. Some people love how it plays like a firaxis xcom tactical game and is actually balanced, but others find it gets boring as your options are always more locked down than they first seem.

 

[Desiderius]

As for the imposible domain, they are broken. Find me another way to increase both attack and saves so much at a low cost.
These are skills that scale very well throughout the game.
Of course I can make Sosiel a shitty fighter, but why?

Because he already has two good Domains that Zealot turns on. Hearth is Full Action, once per rest, and now gives Competence which you've already got if your MC is Bard/Skald or can get other ways if not and AB is usually not an issue for me anyway even on Unfair. Saves are nice but that requires staying in the Hearth radius which costs a lot of tempo that I can use not to need saves at all. I pick it up late for a couple specific fights but that's the opposite of broken.

If MC is Bard/Skald he's far from shitty fighter due to Aspect STR and self-advantage Domain ability from Luck (pre-combat, multiple activation per rest). O/W he buffs with Swift Touch of Luck/Good and Holy Lance (pre-combat) then casts with Standard Actions. Prayer is solid all game and he can also Dispel, Greater and throw in high-level Evo late. Reach lets him hit hard with AoO even there.

 

[Desiderius]

Is there a build that isn't broken in this game?

I mean if you don't specifically try to do a very specific, specialist build, usually the build just comes out... OK?

Like some Vital Strike meme, or Haplo amazing Dimension Charge thing, or ultra focus on Weird to one shot people. Stuff like those.

And you can very well finish the game on Core and Hard with just OKish build (well Hard will be Hard tho due to the number inflation).

I thought that was the case but ended up doing well on Unfair with simply single-classing companions with Seelah picking up a TSS level at lvl 6 to tank and Monk after getting Mark of Justice. Monk probably not really necessary but was nice to open up Shirt slot and Crane (which didn't actually trigger all that much). Lann ZA2-> Drovier for speed Aura was probably pretty important for getting Seelah/Reg moving but left him pretty meh. Ended up respeccing into straight Nomad once I could keep Haste up.

Weird is lvl 17 at the earliest. Pretty broken after that (what's up with the Stun on made save?) but that's relatively late. Not trivial to get DC high enough for faceroll on Unfair but I guess other people are doing it. Too good for taking out adds without much effort.

 

[Rhobar121]

As for the imposible domain, they are broken. Find me another way to increase both attack and saves so much at a low cost.
These are skills that scale very well throughout the game.
Of course I can make Sosiel a shitty fighter, but why?

Because he already has two good Domains that Zealot turns on. Hearth is Full Action, once per rest, and now gives Competence which you've already got if your MC is Bard/Skald or can get other ways if not and AB is usually not an issue for me anyway even on Unfair. Saves are nice but that requires staying in the Hearth radius which costs a lot of tempo that I can use not to need saves at all. I pick it up late for a couple specific fights but that's the opposite of broken.

If MC is Bard/Skald he's far from shitty fighter due to Aspect STR and self-advantage Domain ability from Luck (pre-combat, multiple activation per rest). O/W he buffs with Swift Touch of Luck/Good and Holy Lance (pre-combat) then casts with Standard Actions. Prayer is solid all game and he can also Dispel, Greater and throw in high-level Evo late. Reach lets him hit hard with AoO even there.

Rest is not the slightest problem in this game.
You really only need big buffs in specific fights.

I still don't know why I should devote time and attention to buffing Sosiel with buffs that last a few seconds.
I don't know why anyone would waste their time on this.
If it was a 4 team, I would agree with you, but since we have 6 people, it means that you can easily sacrifice 1 character to strengthen the others.
Especially since the benefit-cost ratio is very high. I doubt whether you will be able to make Sosiel as a fighter worth more than +10 for the entire team (early game) and then 22+ (I don't remember exactly how much) in act 4 and 5.

 

[Rhobar121]

Is there a build that isn't broken in this game?

I mean if you don't specifically try to do a very specific, specialist build, usually the build just comes out... OK?

Like some Vital Strike meme, or Haplo amazing Dimension Charge thing, or ultra focus on Weird to one shot people. Stuff like those.

And you can very well finish the game on Core and Hard with just OKish build (well Hard will be Hard tho due to the number inflation).

I thought that was the case but ended up doing well on Unfair with simply single-classing companions with Seelah picking up a TSS level at lvl 6 to tank and Monk after getting Mark of Justice. Monk probably not really necessary but was nice to open up Shirt slot and Crane (which didn't actually trigger all that much). Lann ZA2-> Drovier for speed Aura was probably pretty important for getting Seelah/Reg moving but left him pretty meh. Ended up respeccing into straight Nomad once I could keep Haste up.

Weird is lvl 17 at the earliest. Pretty broken after that (what's up with the Stun on made save?) but that's relatively late. Not trivial to get DC high enough for faceroll on Unfair but I guess other people are doing it. Too good for taking out adds without much effort.

The only thing you need for Unfair is a good tank, which honestly can be done with just a pet.
The rest really depends on the buffs.

 

[Desiderius]

Storm spam is too much better than the alternatives (trvializes build choices) but takes awhile to simply dominate the game (trivializes playing the game altogether).

The latter is more what is meant by broken. I'm uninterested in the former so can't really say whether the latter is true since I've never tested it.

I ended up solving game with Aeon Ranged Vanguard MC mounted on Bismuth backed up by Nenio Illusion Magic Spam (Weird + Persistent Phantasmal spells) and unhittable Seelah tank with high saves/immunities. Combination ended up broken.

 

[Desiderius]

I still don't know why I should devote time and attention to buffing Sosiel with buffs that last a few seconds.

Ignorance isn't an argument. Sacrifice? I just explained that you're not sacrificing anything. If you take Domain Zealot instead of needless Impossible you can use Swifts to give advantage/big Sacred bonus and cast with Standards. With Mythic Spell Pen Standard Prayer applies AoE buff + debuff with no save and gets you in position to trigger Archon's. Seconds? By the time he gets Holy Lance/Divine Fortune its at least 3 rounds and goes up from there. They get extra activations each four levels.

Hearth is Full Action so either you're putting it down then trying to pull or getting it down in the middle of the action by the time most of my fights are half over. Once you have Domain Zealot it gets alot better but that's M3 at the earliest unless you're skipping Mythic Pen or Evo Focus. Abundant Casting is where I want to be there unless you're massively rest spamming.