Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Delterius]

Shadowcaster isn't alignment limited, I don't see why an Azata path would break any theme. If anything it feels the 2nd most thematic for the class after trickster, Demon can kind of synergize with basically everything but you've got to rest a lot to get rages back.

Theme-wise, I'd say Shadowcaster is best with Lich since the shadowplane has an undead connotation. It's an image of the mortal world, distorted by proximity with the negative energy plane.

Trickster can basically be whatever though. The story is about making a mockery of the demons, areelu, the crusaders and most everything else. The fact that the mythic has 'fey vibes' and the fey plane is the anti-shadowplane adds to the thesis, even.

 

[Grunker]

Expectation: dozens of classes, hundreds of archetypes, thousands of builds, every game completely different
Reality: one can't skip Demonslayer level 1 dip

I completed the game on Unfair without that - or Brown-Fur Transmuter, or even a Paladin. Hell I didn't even have a full arcane caster with full Sorc/Wiz spell list access.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Expectation: dozens of classes, hundreds of archetypes, thousands of builds, every game completely different
Reality: one can't skip Demonslayer level 1 dip

I completed the game on Unfair without that - or Brown-Fur Transmuter, or even a Paladin. Hell I didn't even have a full arcane caster with full Sorc/Wiz spell list access.

Presumably that didn't involve respeccing compaions, would it good sir?

 

[Grunker]

Expectation: dozens of classes, hundreds of archetypes, thousands of builds, every game completely different
Reality: one can't skip Demonslayer level 1 dip

I completed the game on Unfair without that - or Brown-Fur Transmuter, or even a Paladin. Hell I didn't even have a full arcane caster with full Sorc/Wiz spell list access.

Presumably that didn't involve respeccing compaions, would it good sir?

Yes, but what's your point? I would definitely have been better off with some standard companions, an OP MC, Seelah and the furry

I made Wenduag a shield specialist lol

 

[Desiderius]

at higher levels the will check is less of a problem

Uh, the Shadow gets the check so as it grows more powerful it should become *more* of a problem lol.

Nice counterbalance to inverted difficulty curve. The OP Summon item from under Lost Chapel could also turn on you so sounds similar, though there it was flat 10% chance at summon while this thing gets a check every turn.

Design team around putting it down and get decent chunk of extra EXP from a game that usually doesn't offer it too. Maybe have Control Undead up and ready as needed to get it back onside.

 

[Desiderius]

what's your point?

His point is that strictly worse is strictly worse (outside RP self-nerf just feels bad/no fun). Demonslayer dip is not strictly better though unless you need the Profs.

Other point is that setting is so Demon-heavy that Demon-focused archetypes are too good which fair enough, depends what's killing you. Other archetypes still good enough to beat Unfair and offer interesting play variations/solutions to problems that Demon-classes may not.

Final point is that respec either necessary for Unfair or better enough than stock companions that it feels like self-nerf to play them.

After extensive testing the verdict is no for main game respec not necessary though a couple smol tweaks improve experience and that 95% of what people respec into will be worse than stock played well. In most cases that's single-classed too.

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't see how summons turning on you is interesting. If it does it constantly it's useless/counterproductive. If it does so rarely then it's just a reload unless the fight is so easy it doesn't matter. You'd need to play Ironman to make it function as intended for a PnP game

If it was a constantly occuring but mild effect it might be interesting but it's not, it's just a main class feature being inverted. It's like if monks had to save or lose their wis ac bonus every round, or if tricksters had a 5% chance to damage themselves on crits

Although I gotta say, Trickster mythic powers having drawbacks that hurt yourself/your party would be funny and thematic. It's a pretty overpowered mythic path already, doing this would play into the "tricksters can't help pranking everyone, even their friends" joke.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Wendu-tank is hardly some cooky build, she's a beefcake.

 

[Rhobar121]

Companions in WotR are not terrible, at least those that start at a low level or are broken (Aruehalle). Others like Regil or even worse Greyboar are bad. Theoretically, there is alsol Sosiel, but Cleric in WotR cannot be bad as long as you have access to any domain.
At least there is no situation like in the Kingsmaker where most of the initial companion builds are so bad that they are almost useless.
Who came up with the idea of Barbarian with 16 str or fighter with 19 con?
In addition, we have Ekun, who is as boring as paint drying on the wall, but has the best statistics (much higher than your character can achieve).

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

Expectation: dozens of classes, hundreds of archetypes, thousands of builds, every game completely different
Reality: one can't skip Demonslayer level 1 dip

I got bored of the main campaign and switched to the Midnight Isles standalone. More enemy variety, so you don't have to focus on anti-demon. Also better story and companions.

I completed the game on Unfair without that - or Brown-Fur Transmuter, or even a Paladin. Hell I didn't even have a full arcane caster with full Sorc/Wiz spell list access.

Trickster with crit feats? Merged Angel?

 

[Grunker]

Trickster with crit feats? Merged Angel?

Not at all. A meme natural attack stacking build (Demon mythic). I switched to a caster build during the last 3-4 hours of the game because the Shifter DLC was released, but by then the game had become a cakewalk anyway.

EDIT: Make no mistake, the run was balls-to-the-wall hard, and water elemental in prologue was near impossible (though I did it). The Darkness-thingy also gave me great trouble, as did the secret hideout in the abyss (I consider the latter to be the best fight in the game).

EDIT2: MC build can be found here for those curious (no longer works after Shifter release): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16qq--FuBKw86vLMhPajQMr8ij5zAvsSN4n1rsrcaTR8/edit?usp=sharing. It could have been more optimized with more boring race and class picks, but I wanted to play into the fantasy of a RIP & TEAR demon.

 

[Agesilaus]

I don't see how summons turning on you is interesting. If it does it constantly it's useless/counterproductive. If it does so rarely then it's just a reload unless the fight is so easy it doesn't matter. You'd need to play Ironman to make it function as intended for a PnP game

The shadow hangs around long enough to severely drain stats, so the turning just becomes a small part of the greater calculation. Let's say you let Blightmaw get fully-summoned, now what are you going to do? You know he can't hurt a shadow, and you know the shadow will, at the very least, drain most of his strength. So if the negative is that you might have to take out the shadow mid-fight, it's not a bad trade at all. Even if the shadow breaks free after only a few turns, so what? You focus fire on the shadow and then finish off a severely crippled Blightmaw who can barely scratch you.

I will say that my shadow underperformed against Staunton/Minagho/Nura. It kept focusing on Minagho who is apparently immune to the stat drain, so it just wasted its time. On the "positive" side, Staunton ultimately killed it with his glaive, so apparently some enemies can hurt it. I suppose that makes it a danger-free summon; if you cast it near an enemy that can kill it, it will probably die before it attacks you, and while it lives it will cause a big stat-drain. The OP summoning item from under the Lost Chapel (the angel/devil thing, right?) was more appropriate for the Staunton battle, though, as they have weapons and just smack the enemy repeatedly.

Also, now that I have my Lich powers... these spells are insanely powerful. I also kitted my vanguard champion in the best gear I could find, and he is helpful to have around. I gave him that blue bard hat that does fast heal, it looks very spiffy and will help when I get the next upgrade.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't see how summons turning on you is interesting. If it does it constantly it's useless/counterproductive. If it does so rarely then it's just a reload unless the fight is so easy it doesn't matter. You'd need to play Ironman to make it function as intended for a PnP game

If it was a constantly occuring but mild effect it might be interesting but it's not, it's just a main class feature being inverted. It's like if monks had to save or lose their wis ac bonus every round, or if tricksters had a 5% chance to damage themselves on crits

Although I gotta say, Trickster mythic powers having drawbacks that hurt yourself/your party would be funny and thematic. It's a pretty overpowered mythic path already, doing this would play into the "tricksters can't help pranking everyone, even their friends" joke.

Think of it the other way: the game gives you a signifcant chunk of extra EXP every fight as long as you design your party to handle an enemy Shadow added to each fight, and sometimes you get lucky and it fights on your side. As the game goes on the luck happens less and less (although you can summon it right next to bosses to distract them momentarily) but you get extra INT to compensate. The EXP itself moves you down the difficulty curve faster.

Sounds like a pretty good variant.

 

[Desiderius]

Companions in WotR are not terrible, at least those that start at a low level or are broken (Aruehalle). Others like Regil or even worse Greyboar are bad. Theoretically, there is alsol Sosiel, but Cleric in WotR cannot be bad as long as you have access to any domain.
At least there is no situation like in the Kingsmaker where most of the initial companion builds are so bad that they are almost useless.
Who came up with the idea of Barbarian with 16 str or fighter with 19 con?
In addition, we have Ekun, who is as boring as paint drying on the wall, but has the best statistics (much higher than your character can achieve).

Tell me you never played Regill without telling me you never played Regill. Do you understand that Hellknight Order abilities (including up to three Domains from his Godclaw) don't show up on the Character Sheet until they're chosen? On top of that he's got +3 Morale AoE Aura that includes AC (so stacks with everything)?

Don't come to this forum with ghey Fextralife memes.

the secret hideout in the abyss (I consider the latter to be the best fight in the game)

Dimensional Hop is from Travel Domain, giving him virtual Pounce.

Gheybor is set up to pwn as a Shield Basher.

As for Amiri and Val...

16 STR? That's -2 AB from 20 STR out of what ends up being 60 AB/AC and Wrath scales to 100. Barb turns out to be very solid class and her 12 WIS is enough to go Freebooter or Sacred Huntmaster.



Val's high CON ends up giving her nice high FORT saves which you need early game against all the Centipedes before you've got the resources to deal with all the stat drain/get poison immunity. She has enough STR for what she's there for and that CON even sets her up for nice TSS!/Kinetic Knight build.

Val's very handy as TSS, Bard, KKnight, or even Feyspeaker since her CHR ends up very large and Feyspeaker has nice pet + Mirror Image/Displacement.

 

[Agesilaus]

Companions in WotR are not terrible, at least those that start at a low level or are broken (Aruehalle). Others like Regil or even worse Greyboar are bad. Theoretically, there is alsol Sosiel, but Cleric in WotR cannot be bad as long as you have access to any domain.
At least there is no situation like in the Kingsmaker where most of the initial companion builds are so bad that they are almost useless.
Who came up with the idea of Barbarian with 16 str or fighter with 19 con?
In addition, we have Ekun, who is as boring as paint drying on the wall, but has the best statistics (much higher than your character can achieve).

Tell me you never played Regill without telling me you never played Regilll.

Don't come to this forum with ghey Fextralife memes.

Agreed, Regill is in my front line right now. I have Regill, Camillia, Wenduag, Daeran, and Nenio. I would say they all carry their weight well.

Regill is even better now with the new mythic feats. There's heavy armour mythic feats that make him extra tanky or damaging, and a feat that gives him Camillia's buckler AC. He tears things apart with the hooked hammer, he has an AC aura buff, his smite can make casters shut up, and as a fighter Regill is the perfect target for all of your own buffing spells.


Also, Regill approves of my lich decision.

 

[Desiderius]

If you’re a Trickster you can even turn him into a Swarm (sort of).

Tiny pretty good already.

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't see how summons turning on you is interesting. If it does it constantly it's useless/counterproductive. If it does so rarely then it's just a reload unless the fight is so easy it doesn't matter. You'd need to play Ironman to make it function as intended for a PnP game

If it was a constantly occuring but mild effect it might be interesting but it's not, it's just a main class feature being inverted. It's like if monks had to save or lose their wis ac bonus every round, or if tricksters had a 5% chance to damage themselves on crits

Although I gotta say, Trickster mythic powers having drawbacks that hurt yourself/your party would be funny and thematic. It's a pretty overpowered mythic path already, doing this would play into the "tricksters can't help pranking everyone, even their friends" joke.

Think of it the other way: the game gives you a signifcant chunk of extra EXP every fight as long as you design your party to handle an enemy Shadow added to each fight, and sometimes you get lucky and it fights on your side. As the game goes on the luck happens less and less (although you can summon it right next to bosses to distract them momentarily) but you get extra INT to compensate. The EXP itself moves you down the difficulty curve faster.

Sounds like a pretty good variant.

You get xp from the shadow? Couldn't you just summon it outside battle to farm?

 

[Desiderius]

Summons from Lost Chapel item give EXP (360 each) IIRC.

Would have to test Shadows since they spawn on your team.

 

[Delterius]

You get xp from the shadow? Couldn't you just summon it outside battle to farm?

fallout rat farm . exe engaged

 

[Desiderius]

Grinding EXP is just sad but stipulation variant that also lets you level faster while randomly draining bosses when you get lucky could be fun.

 

[Desiderius]

Guardian of Life Amulet for sale in Kenabres Tavern buffs Cure Wounds on downed targets but also gives +2 Morale (stacking) AC vs Undead attacks if wearer has Death Ward up.

Already good for Sosiel companion quest (Zombie Graveyard and Skeleton Archers) and other tough Undead fights, but can just keep Death Ward always up on tank (to prevent drain) and summon Shadow near it to minimize impact when it turns.

 

[Desiderius]

"Stalwart Defender's damage reduction now stacks with damage reduction from other sources, including armor"

This can now get there (DR is prior to Unfair damage doubling, so does twice as much on Unfair)

 

[Rhobar121]

"Stalwart Defender's damage reduction now stacks with damage reduction from other sources, including armor"

This can now get there (DR is prior to Unfair damage doubling, so does twice as much on Unfair)

If it works, because recently (after the release of the DLC) stacking did not work properly even though it should.

 

[Apostle Hand]

Is it possible to respec your character when you reach lost chapel in chapter 2?
also, what is the level cap for this game and does it depends on game difficulty (I'm playing on core)
Dragonheir Scion really interests me so I would want to try it out

 

[Haplo]

Well, the respec NPC is at the camp in Act2.
Level cap is 20 + 10 Mythic Ranks (actually 9 for practical purposes). Difficulty has no impact here.

Dragonheir Scion is like a worse fighter - which is a rather vanilla class anyway. But if that's what you like...