Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[LannTheStupid]

FriendlyMerchant From what I saw - again, I don't understand.

1. They greatly improved the UI. To the extent that I, probably, will spend on D20 only a quarter of the time I spent there playing Kingmaker.
2. They improved the A.I., but you need to enable it which makes all the difficulties lower than Hard - custom. Maybe they will change it later.
3. I have nothing to say about the encounter design in general. What I played in beta was good. And the improved A.I. was not a joke.
4. In general, you think they should have abandoned everything they had built before and after 2018 and used absolutely new setting with new combat system? I am not sure this is a good idea. They were making a continuation, not the second revolution. Will they make a revolution again - who knows. May be even they do not know.

So we are seeing different things in the same game, and this is OK.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Icewind Dale barely did that though. It was pretty much just taking what Baldur's Gate already did and made a combat centered spin-off.

AND IT WAS FUCKING GREAT.

 

[dacencora]

Man, this is nigh unplayable after leaving the Shield Maze. My 1080 cannot keep up. Gonna try and go down to 1080p, which will look hideous on my monitor, but it’s getting down to like 15 fps lmao

 

[DeepOcean]

Unlike WotR's devs, who establish that the demons invaded the city in *seconds*, killed its most powerful defender, cracked the city in pieces (because reasons) and then waited around for you to go through a bloated and pointless dungeon before defeating you in a scripted fight...and then letting you live and escape to...a tavern where everyone is drinking happily.

My experience:
"A dragon in human guise defender of the city comes to talk personally with me, random schmuck number 505 because I'm special."
me: Hummm... this smells like Bethesda unless my expectations are subverted.
"Demon lord shows up to face dragon."
me: Oh, epic fight on the first 5 mins, definitily looks like Bethesda."
"Dragon that can fly but just roars and Demon lord cuts its head."
me: Yeah, expectations were subverted, cool, looks like my mother cutting the heads of chicken for dinner. Hey. really wanna go where that head landed on, would make a nice trophy.
Developer: "But you dont understand, that is a dramatic moment, a servant of Iodemoe... Iademae... Iodemiae... you know exotic sounding deity to show Pathfinder is TOTALLY not a DnD ripoff, died."
me: Dude, before George Martin killed Ned Stark, he was on the end of the first book on the Game of Thrones series not on the first 5 mins, at this point, this is a dragon and I just wanna its loot. Where its head? I can probably craft a +5 fire resist legendary head gear from it.
Developer: "No, you will visit a lesbian couple home to stop being an asshole and actually care about what we are writing."
me: Wot? Sorry I zoned out while I was looking my loot on the inventory, hey... that half ork paladin woman has a nice armor, can I kill her and steal it for me?
Developer: "No, didnt you notice them hugging each other, it was so cool..."
me: Yeah, pain in the ass, all those valuable Bardishes on the ground to be pick up to sell later and those two bitches cant stop hugging each other so I can pick them up, such a bullshit, if this was PnP, while they were hugging each other I would be pickpocketing them while they had debuffs on their perception stat."

 

[jf8350143]

What happens if you leave the Vescavor queen in Drezen alive?

She grows later and you need to fight her again. Also it's required to unlock the swarm path.

 

[jf8350143]

Yeah not sure where the money for DOUBLE REACTIVITY went to.... I mean PFK had lots of CnC for quests

Well, in Kingmaker Jubilost did not recognize the main hero as a gnome and went on to explain about the Bleaching. And Jaethal did not recognize the main hero as an elf and went on how Kyonin is and why it is a forbidden city. And Valerie did not recognize the main hero is the paladin of Shelyn. That locked me out of 2 races and one subclass.

So if they solve at least those things I will be OK. After watching some streams I decided to play an LE aasimar for my first playthrough (sorry Kitsune). I'd like to see if Daeran would see a person with the same, well, affliction - and even

Spoiler

what my character would say to Wenduag when she tells about eating a steak of an aasimar thigh.

I guess I'll see then.

Owlcat straight up shows a human male in plate armor as protagonist during the story book scene between each chapter in Kingmaker.

It's pretty clear that they don't give a shit about acknowledging your character's race,class and gender

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

FriendlyMerchant From what I saw - again, I don't understand.

1. They greatly improved the UI. To the extent that I, probably, will spend on D20 25-30% of the time I spent there playing Kingmaker.

Meh. UI improvements aren't a big deal. It's a nice thing but meh. Most of the UI looks the same and the places where it's "improved" are clunkier than in the last game.

2. They improved the A.I., but you need to enable it which makes all the difficulties lower than Hard - custom. Maybe they will change it later.

I'm not seeing it.

3. I have nothing to say about the encounter design in general. What I played in beta was good. And the improved A.I. was not a joke.

There's nothing to say. The encounter design pretty much is the same thing as Kingmaker. Just crtl+c/crtl+v all game.

4. In general, you think they should have abandoned everything they had built before and after 2018 and used absolutely new setting with new combat system? I am not sure this is a good idea. They were making a continuation, not the second revolution. Will they make a revolution again - who knows. May be even they do not know.

So we are seeing different things in the same game, and this is OK.

I'm saying they should've actually improved their game. They didn't have to abandon the system or setting. They just had to improve it. The RTWP system has been around for over 20 years with no real development or improvement. Owlcat has continued this trend. Both this game and Kingmaker are just another RTWP game with very little real improvements.

 

[The_Mask]

I've defeated Chorussina's little pet. Tough fight.

Proof in spoilers.

Spoiler

 

[cw8]

The Elemental in the Shield Maze prompts a tutorial message that "you don't have to try every fight, some side encounters will push your shit in" message, so it's not like the game fails to warn you about such encounters.

Couple things:

-This fight is an example of how Owlcat fundamentally fails to understand the system they're running. A CR 8 fight isn't supposed to be winnable by *any* level 2 party of *any* composition. I was able to win through pure luck--it rolled poorly to hit and I scored some critical charges. But in any normal game that's a TPK. It's like "rocks fall everyone dies" but the DM actually goes to the trouble of rolling the rock damage, and somehow rolls 20d6 with all 1s.

-What is the actual point? The game has some blatant unfair fights. So you should... just... not... fight... stuff... ? Okay? But why? It's not even like the elemental is guarding anything good or gatekeeping a tougher area of the dungeon. it's just a random out of depth monster because fuck you that's why.

Beat the Elemental on Core. Put the tanks on one line, fully buffed Seelah right in front so the Elemental went for her first. My character behind, she's a Monk. The two others behind them. Couldn't win at first, couldn't get past the DR. Till Lann got a Masterwork Composite Longbow with higher damage later in the dungeon. Then the fight became cakewalk.

 

[Takamori]

Ok reached a point in game where I can only choose demon, angel or trickster wtf. I avoided all the angel, demon options and just played a trick on a guy once. Where is my option to a legendary hero I don't want to be a faggot monster option.

 

[Cryomancer]

Ok reached a point in game where I can only choose demon, angel or trickster wtf. I avoided all the angel, demon options and just played a trick on a guy once. Where is my I don't want to be a faggot monster option.

In chapter 5 you can chose "legend" but till then, you need to choose a MP.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Kits was very popular in old school RP because it brings diversity and more originality.

*were.

I know, but praising the amount of kits when more important elements were neglected is what I object to. "1000 spells! so many kits!" and meanwhile the game is buggy, a janky grind in the strategy part and has horrible writing.

It's like if someone says they're gonna make you a cheeseburger, adds 50 different toppings on it, stacks it high and then forgets to cook the meat.

Wrong. They are awful.

No, they're better written objectively. Motivations, character arcs etc. You may not like them, but that's just your opinion. Their writing is consistent and believable in context.

Larian in other hands can make even a vampire companion boring.

Again, you're confusing your opinion of the character with how he was written.

For example: I like Camellia just fine, but I recognize that she's poorly written (still one of the better ones so far though). See the difference? I can separate my opinion from objective analysis of the writing.

So lets have only one class or even better be like a JRPG where you can only play as a human swordsman /sarcasm

I'd rather have fewer classes and a story with characters that have arcs and remotely believable dialog than the nonsensical word salad that is WotR.

I and guess what. Lich in beta was the second most popular mythic path. There are a lot of people who enjoy necromancy in RPG.

Larian can't make decent necromancy.

No offense, but you really should work on your grammar.

Anyway, not sure what this has to do with anything.

List of your critiques

• Too much options, we should only have 3 classes a mage a warrior and a cleric, like in a mmo dps/heal/tank.
• Too much epicness in a adaptation of the most epic AP from Paizo
• Bad companions
• Anything that isn't dungeons & kobolds is a Michael Bay film.
• Giving cool options to the player is "edgy powergamey shit"

Nice collection of strawmen. Bad companions is the only thing you got right. The "writing is shit" is something you didn't even bother to make a strawman for too.

Again, I would be fine if they added a dozen class retreads if A) they all actually worked and weren't broken like Cavalier and B) they got the rest of the game right first. As it is, they're majoring in the minors.

 

[Jackpot]

 

[Takamori]

Spoiler

After you get the banner there is no option to choose legend? I'm wondering if my respec fucked up my access to it

 

[Jorus]

Spoiler

After you get the banner there is no option to choose legend? I'm wondering if my respec fucked up my access to it

Spoiler

Lategame path you don't get it until chapter 5

 

[Takamori]

Ok reached a point in game where I can only choose demon, angel or trickster wtf. I avoided all the angel, demon options and just played a trick on a guy once. Where is my I don't want to be a faggot monster option.

In chapter 5 you can chose "legend" but till then, you need to choose a MP.

Spoiler

After you get the banner there is no option to choose legend? I'm wondering if my respec fucked up my access to it

Spoiler

Lategame path you don't get it until chapter 5

Oh I'm retarded didn't see Mere answer, thank you both.

 

[jac8awol]

Damn, Lann feels very overpowered compared to the rest of my party. Got that longbow +3 from some dead mutant elf woman, and now Lann just snipes everything with his 2, sometimes 3 attacks. May have to kick him out the group, this feels like cheating.

 

[gurugeorge]

I've been clocking the music more. The main theme finally "sunk in" the other day, and I realized it's quite a cracker, so I was curious about it.

It's a very convincing rendition of a real orchestra with sample libraries (overlaid by some real overdubs here and there) so I was curious about the people who did it. I think the music in this is better than the PF:K music. Although there were some great moments in that, it was a bit to schmalzy overall, a bit too much like Inon Zur's style, and I got sick of it pretty quickly (not that Inon Zur's stuff isn't great, but it's a particular thing, very like Jeremy Soule's). With this, I'm still enjoying the music after many hours - I think there's more of it and more variety too.

These guys seem to be young and hungry. Well done lads, you took the job damn seriously and you did good!

 

[Cryomancer]

I know, but praising the amount of kits when more important elements were neglected is what I object to. "1000 spells! so many kits!" and meanwhile the game is buggy, a janky grind in the strategy part and has horrible writing.

It's like if someone says they're gonna make you a cheeseburger, adds 50 different toppings on it, stacks it high and then forgets to cook the meat.

That is not a valid analogy cuz a good character building is one of pillars of any decent RPG. IS nothing like "toppings". Iif you had only one mythic path. Angel, the game would be better? For the guys who enjoy the fantasy of being a angel, yes. For me the guys who enjoy other "stuff" like necromancy, necromancy is trash in 99,9999(...)% of modern games. People who like necromancy will buy this game regardless of you seeing redundant with mages or not. Regardless of you seeing it as a "edgy power fantasy" or not. Because this game appeals to then.

People play Pathfinder 1E due the fact that you can build and play with really unique characters. Why the CRPG adaptation should be different?

And is not as if this game lacks strategy.

The water elemental in the first dungeon, a invisible mage which constnatly summon creatures in ch 1 companion quest. The gargoyle swarm in chapter 2. If you look into my posts in first pages, there are a lot of hard enemies and strategies which I used vs then. It has too much trash encounters? Sure, but just let the AI kill then.

characters that have arcs and remotely believable

Lets pick my favorite BG3 char(Gale) and my favorite PF:WoTR char(Arueshalae) and compare the "believeability" of the two.

• Gale : A Wizard who had relationship with Mystra himself and owns inside his body a Netherese magical nuke. He has a bakground which I would expect from a guy like Karsus or Elminster. His level? 1. How he got such artifact? Why nobody used divination magic and killed such weakling for such artifact? What in his character made a deity interested in him? Nothing is explained. A lv 1 wizard should be the guy who read his spellbook for the first time today, not having ancient Netherese artifacts and being in love with deities.
• Arueshalae : A Succubus struggling against her own nature. attempt to fight against her own lust, tries really hard to not see trustfullness as a sign of weaknesses, send herself to jail to avoid putting others in risk and you can talk to her and see how he perceive things. After a extremely amount of effort, from chaotic evil she managed to become chaotic neutral. You only get her at chapter 3 cuz she is too powerful for a low level campaign.

No offense, but you really should work on your grammar.

English is not my native language. In fact, is my third language. However, I had no problem in TOELF despite my poor grammar.

The "writing is shit" is something you didn't even bother to make a strawman for too.

Because you are judging a game by the introductory part(which everyone agrees that is awful) and it is like judging a book by the first 5 pages.

Also, many mysteries are relevated only for certain mythic paths. For example, Liches in chapter 4 discover how Nocticula become so powerful. All other MP can't discover certain details of the plot.

 

[Shadenuat]

I thought I was a bit too idealistic, judging 'dex on last times when everyone was excited and was full of hope about coming RPGs. But thinking back, last time you could point a finger on even any dumbfuck and even they would say you something interesting about the game was really long ago. Like, I remember when DOS1 came out (ironically), there was that level of discussion, but that was damn like 7 years ago? Actual Bee posted back then. I really am living in the past, am I.

But now I wake up in rainy Moscow morning and make my coffe, and take a little slice of cake to eat, and I get 25555 alerts, that Volourn is rating me shit, and it almost feels like home. Almost.
(drinks out of the cup slowly, reading more fanta romancing every NPC in game)

 

[markec]

Is "Now that Owlcats have gained enough popularity, they can ditch Pozzfinder and make their own BASED instead of WOKE game, perhaps W40K campaign" cope? I fear it's just a cope and company has contracted woke virus. Owner reminds me of Feargus, Mishulin of Old Josh Sawyer

They are Russian Obsidian

Obsidian had their occasional gay character for ticking boxes and pleasing the multi-color-haired audience who is in it for CRPG romance, but not even both PoE's combined with DLCs frontload that heavy and blatant amount of shameless pandering LGTBQ*+ propaganda on you as WotR does. I guess the AP name is quite meta in that regard. It truely is the wrath of the self proclaimed righteous, "gifting" the grognards with one of the most fun CRPG gameplays combined with the most woke setting and NPC design. Which way will it be western men?

Pathfinder is woke from the get go and we all knew what we will get with the games. Although I think that few here really expected this much wokeness with the sequel, but still the underlying game is good.

Obsidian on the other hand with PoE was supposed to be the savior of the genre and make a true sequel of BG. Finally a game were no pesky publisher will interfere with their vision and they can do what they want. Then they stabbed in a back a fan due a random tranny bitching on a twitter and released a boring, bland, mediocre at best game.

I can excuse a certain level of wokeness but betrayal never.

Tranny bitching had nothing to do with the failure of PoE.

True but bending over to that tranny is why I washed my hands off Obsidian.

The reason why PoE 2 failed is due first game being overhyped mediocre at best game. Which made few of those who played the first game want to try the sequel.

And not what certain shameless Obsidian fanboys and shills on this site pushed "It's a great game, it's just that people in general are not interested in sequels!"

 

[fantadomat]

Now you could become a furry.

 

[Funposter]

Even by Codexian standards, I think that people are focusing way too much on "wokist" elements. It's not exactly the game's main problem.

It's front-loaded and very much shoved in the player's face, so someone's impression after an hour or two of playtime is going to be soured by it if they dislike this stuff. If the exact same scenes happened but didn't occur until 20 hours into the game, there would have been barely a peep from anyone, since that's a lot of playtime and people have differing levels of dedication to playing the game. Instead, it's the FIRST thing that everyone experienced.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Now you could become a furry.

 

[Sarkile]

Now you could become a furry.

Where is your portrait from? I love it.