Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Saark]

It takes at least 40 hours to get there, until then they are the most prominent mandatory NPCs of the entire crusade.

They have less than 50 lines of dialogue from the start of Chapter 2 to the end of Chapter 3 combined, if you don't count Irabeths Council dialogue. Insanely mandatory and prominent characters. The game focuses very much on companions, and side characters are just there to fill in the blanks, with the exception of Galfrey, the Storyteller and the Herald. Multiple Act 4 Quest NPCS have more text than Anevia+Irabeth have in Chapter 2 and 3 combined. I'm not sure if we've been playing a different game, but my interactions with Irabeth in all of Chapter 2 were getting her to get us reinforcements, rescuing here from the Gargoyles, hitting her in the face before Drezen, and getting 4 quests dumped into my log by her after taking Drezen. After that shes a council member and a quest turn-in and no other interactions happen at any point. Anevia has even fewer appearances.

If, within 40hours of gameplay, you think that those are "major NPCs" then we're either not playing the same game, or are speaking the same language. Nurah and her traitor storyline feature more prominently than those 2 characters do, and the rest of the show is stolen by Regill, Kaylessa and the Kobold.

That's not how romances usually work in RPGs. For all other companions you need to initiate romance, they won't go out of their way to court you. It's written that way to make sure that journos don't miss that option by mistake. Most people will trigger these events unless they are needlessly hostile to useful NPCs.

Neither do the WotR companions, unless you start being coy and flirty with them. Wenduag acts like a pet around you, but you can tell her to cut it out and you will not get any romance-like conversations unless you're specifically seeking her out about it. Daeran is the one exception here, who is actively trying to court the MC. I find that refreshing, not annoying, as it breaks up the typical "go through all dialogue options to romance character X after each chapter" MO that all the other RPGs adopt. Just tell him you're not interested and he'll never press you about it again. Is that really that big of a deal? I'd think that the codex of all places would appreciate writing that strays from the established behavior of companions to have them be more independent and take initiative, like they do in WotR.

but this is simply the case of people playing the game normally and talking about what they see.

If by "playing the game and talking about what they see" you mean that people need to go out of their way to do the gay couples completely optional sidequest, read their lore-only letter, and exhaust every single dialogue option with the gay couple, then yeah, they're in for some gay content. What a surprise. Just don't engage with them if you don't like it? I fail to see the problem. The quest doesn't even give an item, just 500gold or some shit.

When I first played the game and Anevia comes in and calls the ugly orc her wife, I was like "oh no, please not again" because I myself am certainly not looking forward to play yet another game that suffers from these writing issues. But the more I played, the more I realized that it's not a major plot point and is barely brought ever again after their initial reunion. Even in their interactions with one another, you can barely tell that they're a couple. Ultimately not Owlcats fault, when the source material has these character dynamics pre-written already. For how liberal and "progressive" the source material and the Worldwound AP is at times, the game is trying to stay away from those topics as much as possible. They certainly could've made a bigger deal about the fact that Anevia used to have a dick, for example. Now that would've truly been annoying. But it's done in such a subtle and minor way, that most people miss that fact entirely.

 

[Daidre]

The game spams Lore (Nature) checks on the overworld map when travelling, what's up with that?

Skill description says it can delay fatigue. No idea how it works exactly.

I am not a 100% sure, but it seem to happen on some "difficult terrain" like the rifts in Kenabres. Look like it slows you down (like mountains had movement speed penalty on worldmap in Kingmaker) and beating this skill checks helps to prevent extra fatigue accumulation.

 

[gurugeorge]

She's not well written, I agree with that. But her behaviour doesn't seem out of place at all, and as her personal quest comes along and you get to Act 5, shes undergone some fairly significant changes.

I'm not saying her acting like an uncivilized brute is out of place, I'm saying she should be acting like that more, given her background.

I hate to bring up Annah, because after twenty odd years we should have better references, but with her, what she says and how she says it is perfectly in sync with who she is and where she came from. Some berk gave a fuck when they wrote her.

Wenduag's mostly flavourless in comparison. Where are her unique speech mannerisms? Where's her filtering all the new information though her unique, but limited experiences? Where's the quest where you have to procure a solution to her going blind on the surface?

I agree with your main point (there could have been more detail and reactivity), but I don't think the neathers should be depicted as all that brutal. They are very materially poor, sure, but they haven't regressed to total savagery. They have pride in their origins and they have a social structure with regular timekeeping (the gong), moots, etc. - they even have a museum of sorts - so it's not that weird that they should be educated to some level. Re. Wendy being baffled by shopping, that would actually be out of place because there's a vendor in neather town - although IIRC the vendor complains that the neathers don't grok trade very well, they're not totally unfamiliar with it. Gwern also comments that they seem like reasonable people who hold to agreements. Quite an interesting concept really.

 

[Saark]

I agree with your main point (there could have been more detail and reactivity), but I don't think the neathers should be depicted as all that brutal. They are very materially poor, sure, but they haven't regressed to total savagery. They have pride in their origins and they have a social structure with regular timekeeping (the gong), moots, etc. - they even have a museum of sorts - so it's not that weird that they should be educated to some level. Re. Wendy being baffled by shopping, that would actually be out of place because there's a vendor in neather town - although IIRC the vendor complains that the neathers don't grok trade very well, they're not totally unfamiliar with it. Gwern also comments that they seem like reasonable people who hold to agreements. Quite an interesting concept really.

I think one thing thats important to keep in mind, is that Wenduag is not a good representation of the Neathers. She wants to take them down an entirely different path, whereas most of the Mongrels would side with Lann over Wenduag anytime. Lann certainly holds a certain reverence not only for their ancestors and heritage, but humans and the crusades in general. Wenduag is the outcast for a multitude of reasons, and her being abrasive and submissive are less of a reflection of her heritage, but her character. That part of her personality is then reflected within the romance itself as well, obviously. She definitely eems to enjoy a certain level of humilitation and servitude.

 

[gurugeorge]

I have to admit, the faggotry the devs evidently expect some players to indulge in with Sosiel made me feel quite queasy. I've been invited to do gay flirtation in just about every conversation with him.

Which is quite annoying for someone who's OCD about clicking every dialogue option that's not grey

If they want to have an option for gay flirtation, they should have it initiated from the NPC's side, or have some sort of neutral interaction option that flags interest short of "I want you to paint me in the nude, you sexy black hunk of a man you."

Again, the activist idea is to normalize that stuff, to make it all seem like we're on the verge of gay luxury space Communism with puppies and rainbows - but it's not normal, it's not what most players are going to be interested in, and gay luxury space Communism can go fuck itself.

 

[BrotherFrank]

I will never cease to be amazed by pcgamer reviews and their ability to say very little in so many words.

Which brings me something else I've seen a fair few journos wet themselves over but which has absolutely baffled me now that I'm at the end game: Finnean, the talking weapon of the game.

Finnean according to journos: amazing revolutionary piece of game design so you ain't dependent on finding gear because finnean can be any weapon you want to be, much wow.

Me: Dafuq? Other then having ghost touch and cold iron I think it's just a +1 weapon that gets immediately replaced by the first decent weapon I get.
It remains at +1 for most of the game since the quest location to upgrade it is in a spot guarded by tough demons which most people will not reach in act 3.
And then when you do that quest about 60 hours in? Well if you're of a good disposition you do the right thing and free the sword where it becomes an okayish +5 but by that point you're rolling in magical weapons and also it's a longsword which means it's for Seelah who already has like a dozen good longsword options.

Say what you will about poe2, but Modwyr was 100x a better talking weapon and stayed consistently useful.

 

[LannTheStupid]

people need to go out of their way to do the gay couples completely optional sidequest, read their lore-only letter, and exhaust every single dialogue option with the gay couple, then yeah, they're in for some gay content.

The problem is - if you remove the words "gay" or "gay couple", then this how CRPG's are played by prestigious autists that are well presented in this noble asembly. Yes, personally I will exhaust all dialogue options, read all the letters I can find, do completely optional sidequests, reload on failed PER checks (or roll a character with high WIS), and so on. That is how I am playing CRPG's for a long time. And now you are telling me that I am at risk of stepping on some "gay content" this way?

Granted, it was the same with Bioware (with increased "inclusivity" from DA: O to DA: I), but this your argument kind of smells bad. Smells of... well, SJW. And may be of smoke from some downtown shops in the US.

 

[Hamster]

 

[gurugeorge]

Say what you will about poe2, but Modwyr was 100x a better talking weapon and stayed consistently useful.

Modwyr's quest was quite cool, even a bit moving, and you had several possible resolutions.

Yeah Finnean's an okay backstop early in the game especially for giving companions something useful until they get something more useful, but +1 gets old pretty fast.

 

[Sheepherder]

Withering Life, a lich ability which inflicts stat damage on living things, works with magic missiles! No saves, just get through SR, deal at least 1 force damage and apply -5 STR/DEX/CON or -5 INT/WIS/CHA per cast. I guess that's one way to lower enemy saves, especially with a quickened rod or something.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

I agree with your main point (there could have been more detail and reactivity), but I don't think the neathers should be depicted as all that brutal.

I refer to Wendy as a brute because of her alignment. Simple and evil rarely gets you anything else. I'd expect most other mongrels to have a sense of down-to-earth pragmatism.

Yeah Finnean's an okay backstop early in the game, but +1 gets old pretty fast.

He goes up to +3 at least.

 

[Shadenuat]

All new talking weapons including even Lilarcor are just annoying meme at this point. Planescape did it because it was a game about even items having memories of TNOs pasts; other RPGs used them as checklist gimmick instead.

 

[Daidre]

Neither do the WotR companions, unless you start being coy and flirty with them. Wenduag acts like a pet around you, but you can tell her to cut it out and you will not get any romance-like conversations unless you're specifically seeking her out about it. Daeran is the one exception here, who is actively trying to court the MC.

Honestly people, this exact dialogue triggers like from mile away when you sent to look at your camp in the beginning of the Ch2.

Spoiler

Just click 1. and feel safe. What else do you need, alert window with "Attention! DaeranRomanceActive will be set to 2, do you wish to proceed?" message?)

 

[NJClaw]

Sadly, it seems that Mythic Vital Strike still doesn't work properly with the Paladin's Smite Evil. It should multiply the damage bonus from Smite Evil (because it's a flat bonus that gets multiplied with a critical hit), but right now it only gets added once. Here I have a level 8 Paladin with a normal flat bonus to damage of +26. With Mythic Vital Strike, the damage bonus becomes +52, and with Smite Evil it should become +68. However, it's only +60:

Spoiler, I guess

Spoiler

Haplo Desiderius am I missing something?

 

[gurugeorge]

I agree with your main point (there could have been more detail and reactivity), but I don't think the neathers should be depicted as all that brutal.

I refer to Wendy as a brute because of her alignment. Simple and evil rarely gets you anything else. I'd expect most other mongrels to have a sense of down-to-earth pragmatism.

Yeah Finnean's an okay backstop early in the game, but +1 gets old pretty fast.

He goes up to +3 at least.

How? I've been pulling him out and talking to him regularly but the convo hasn't been updating with anything new.

 

[Rafidur]

Really? That's the demon army chapter 3 was hyping so much? Really?

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

How? I've been pulling him out and talking to him regularly but the convo hasn't been updating with anything new.

I... don't actually know. He's been a +3, Brilliant Energy, Heartseeker fauchard since I was level 10.

I suspect he might be level gated?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

More Ember wholesomeness.

 

[Saark]

And now you are telling me that I am at risk of stepping on some "gay content" this way?

Pretty much, yeah. And it's not going away, either. Certainly not simply because a bunch of people whine about it on some obscure forum. But the world isn't black and white, either. Theres plenty of games that take the "lets make everything as gay and inclooosive as possible" approach to the max, then there's a handful of independent developers who can afford to go against the grain, and then theres a whole world of devs that are somewhere in between. Do those handful of gay interactions you have to go through in the first 5 hours of a 100+ hour game really feel like the game is pushing a specific agenda, or is it just your general distaste for any kind of said content? Personally, I'm apalled by devs that go the extra mile to cater to the SJW crowd wherever they can, but to me WotR (and Kingmaker) simply don't feel all that SJW cater~y. Certainly not as much as Obsidian, Inxile or even Larian.

 

[BrotherFrank]

Random encounter in act 3. I think visiting Wintersun is what triggers it on the world map after you leave the area. Visit the temple west of Drezen and grab the notes beforehand just to be sure.

I definitely did wintersun and 100% cleared it so can't be that, same for the temple I think, assuming you're referring to the one dedicated to stag god that has cultist lair in basement.

Another possibility is this is a consequence of picking the Azata unique option of rushing the act 3 finale I guess. I had let a week pass to ensure was no more quests but clearly wasn't enough.

 

[Tacgnol]

And now you are telling me that I am at risk of stepping on some "gay content" this way?

Pretty much, yeah. And it's not going away, either. Certainly not simply because a bunch of people whine about it on some obscure forum. But the world isn't black and white, either. Theres plenty of games that take the "lets make everything as gay and inclooosive as possible" approach to the max, then there's a handful of independent developers who can afford to go against the grain, and then theres a whole world of devs that are somewhere in between. Do those handful of gay interactions you have to go through in the first 5 hours of a 100+ hour game really feel like the game is pushing a specific agenda, or is it just your general distaste for any kind of said content? Personally, I'm apalled by devs that go the extra mile to cater to the SJW crowd wherever they can, but to me WotR (and Kingmaker) simply don't feel all that SJW cater~y. Certainly not as much as Obsidian, Inxile or even Larian.

This. The game ain't Siege of Dragonspear. People only give you their life stories if you prod them and ask for it.

As much as I detest the SJW camp, and argue against those that say no "politics" should be discussed in gaming threads, it really seems like a lot of people on the Codex go out of their way to find things to be offended at these days.

Such behaviour is not far removed from places like ResetEra, just done from the opposite direction.

 

[Mauman]

Brown Fur Transmuter is a bit insane.

Want to have your beefy fighter have 30+ strength by level 3? No problem. Ditto for dex if you use reduce person.

Take enduing spells at and greater enduring spells ASAP and it's just nutso.

 

[Desiderius]

How? I've been pulling him out and talking to him regularly but the convo hasn't been updating with anything new.

I... don't actually know. He's been a +3, Brilliant Energy, Heartseeker fauchard since I was level 10.

I suspect he might be level gated?

Maybe I should check lol. Maybe he get upgraded in Labyrinth or lab. I got the encounter.

 

[Tacgnol]

How? I've been pulling him out and talking to him regularly but the convo hasn't been updating with anything new.

I... don't actually know. He's been a +3, Brilliant Energy, Heartseeker fauchard since I was level 10.

I suspect he might be level gated?

Maybe I should check lol. Maybe he get upgraded in Labyrinth or lab. I got the encounter.

I think Finn only has two upgrades.

When I did his final quest he was still a +3 Brilliant Energy, Heartseeker weapon.

Spoiler

You can either set him free or surrender him to the dwarf bladesmith in his final quest. If you set him free, he says part of his spirit will always be infused in your weapon, but the weapon disappeared. I'm not sure whether this was a bug or just something stupid I missed.

 

[frajaq]

yooo I managed to beat the Shield Maze Water Elemental on Core finally!