Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[volklore]

Damn some mythic levels powerspikes are satisfying. With favorable magic, Phantasmal killer/Phantasmal web are so amazing. I don't think I have missed a single one since I got the feat. Also there is surprisingly few mind-immune enemies so far (mid-act 3), but I am sure the game will throw a ton of them at me at some point. In any case, I have picked a bunch of spells and spell focus on my sorc to be ready for that when it happens. Bard seelah is also doing a ton of work too with intimidating prowess and gear I have +47 intimidate on her which means I can use mythic dazzle(swift) in 99 percent of encounters.
Although I feel I am very vulnerable to mind-affecting effects myself. I have parsed through my spellbook and it doesn't seem I have access to a tool against that. I made the relic ring from the phylactery that helps my tank a ton for that. Also the scroll vendor doesn't seem to sell mind-blank scrolls. Unbreakable heart only works for negative emotions and is rounds/lvl so it's a bit too narrow.

 

[Parabalus]

For me Wrath's writing is one hell of the mixed bag.
Storywise, I would rate Kingmaker's ch1 >> Wrath's ch1, since it falls on the face right from the ugly cut-scene, where everyone dying but I could not care less. And it would do game a world of good, IMHO, if they'd started events couple of days earlier, introduced all important actors (through Desnans/Inquisitors conflict for example) and only then did the whole demon attack thing. Because right now it still reeks of beta, like if they wanted to add some content to the Festival Square & Mongrel Village but never got to it.

And there is more issues than a weird plotting and the lack of PCs agenda - all interactions in Defenders Heart are a way too wordy and tend to repeat same things ad naseum, starting companion roster is meh, and the mood is all over the place (that Nenio introduction scene!). Honestly, Camelia and Nenio alone are so cringy that their presence is like a constant -2 to writing quality, Seelah is bland and Lann's first dialogue tree is filled with whining. At least Ember and Daeran are on the better side of the companion spectrum but their first scenes are crippled by the bad VA.
Well, Kingmaker's roster started with Amiri and Linzi (optional) and those two... required a long time to warm up to. But the the atmosphere is good - true and real DnD adventuring.

But at the same time Wrath's ch2 > anything in Kingmaker. And I would dare to say that pieces of the main story sequence

Spoiler

Swarm, Regill recruitment, White Chapel and Drezen

all range from the good to great in their quality.
And now I am around chapter 3 (when I am not restarting), and what I have seen there

Spoiler

Wintersun, Areelu's lab, kingdom counsils

are pretty nice too, especially unique content from the all Mythic paths, when each of them comes with it own cast of supporting characters.

Don't you like Greybor? He's pretty refreshing.

I didn't really mind Nenio, especially since her quest makes it clear that she's essentially

Spoiler

a construct/robot/however you call it.

Why did you take the whiner over spider lady though?

 

[Daidre]

Why did you take the whiner over spider lady though?

Because he is Zen Archer who I could multi into Cleric/Druid.
And I've warmed up to Lann a lot in chapter 2 when he started fanboy-ing over the Hellknights.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

he started fanboy-ing over the Hellknights.

 

[AwesomeButton]

So this already released? Is it better than the previous one?

Despite what fanoys and shills might try to claim, it's not as good as Kingmaker, the writing is much more sloppy and isn't as tightly written or edited, the dialogue is more cringy and characters are worse. The dialogue also sounds more modern which is pretty off-putting.

(+) The build playground is tempting, (-) but unfortunately the first ~20 hours of the game are more or less linear.

On my second run I was skipping the long-winded dialogue and cutscenes, and I am still at 1d 9h (or 24+9=33 hrs) approaching the end of the Drezen assault. IMO this campaign is not the best environment to be trying out builds for experimentation's sake.

As for the writing - I approach the game as a hack&slash and just disregard the wriing. Ironically, IWD was supposed to be a hack&slash, and it has writing that's leagues better - saying much with few words.

 

[AwesomeButton]

ONIMU PORTRAITZ IZ DIZGUSTING! UNLIKE THE KWALITY WESTERN PAZFINDER ART!

This is what the end of Western Civilization looks like. The Last Men will be WotR players, among other things.

 

[Reinhardt]

Why did you take the whiner over spider lady though?

Because she's retarded evil traitor. Why would anyone want that thing in the party?

 

[ga♥]

How do I actually unlock different new troops to recruit? I've built the pre-requisite archery range and barracks. Those say I can recruit many new units but nothing appears in the recruiting screen apart the very basic 2 units that have been there from the start.

I don't know how it works, but I happened to get new units only via council events or decrees stuff.

 

[thesheeep]

How to fix Dworf?

Pull ears and feet at same time to make elf.

 

[thesheeep]

Why did you take the whiner over spider lady though?

Because she's retarded evil traitor. Why would anyone want that thing in the party?

Exactly this.
It makes 0 sense for anyone, evil or not, to take Wenduag into your party - she is basically introduced by betraying her boss on a whim just because she SUSPECTS you are stronger.
What would stop her from betraying you the second she as much as suspects someone out there is stronger than you?

It's absurd.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Why did you take the whiner over spider lady though?

Because she's retarded evil traitor. Why would anyone want that thing in the party?

Exactly this.
It makes 0 sense for anyone, evil or not, to take Wenduag into your party - she is basically introduced by betraying her boss on a whim just because she SUSPECTS you are stronger.
What would stop her from betraying you the second she as much as suspects someone out there is stronger than you?

It's absurd.

I disagree. I made an argument earlier, that given real power in his hands, a naive idealist will be more damaging than a simpleton looking to climb the ladder of power.

 

[Parabalus]

Why did you take the whiner over spider lady though?

Because she's retarded evil traitor. Why would anyone want that thing in the party?

Exactly this.
It makes 0 sense for anyone, evil or not, to take Wenduag into your party - she is basically introduced by betraying her boss on a whim just because she SUSPECTS you are stronger.
What would stop her from betraying you the second she as much as suspects someone out there is stronger than you?

It's absurd.

The mythic commander?

It works.

 

[Daidre]

I disagree. I made an argument earlier, that given real power in his hands, a naive idealist will be more damaging than a simpleton looking to climb the ladder of power.

Well If you'd played the game a bit father, you'd got to the part where Lann absolutely abhors idea of getting any power over other people's lives into his hands. And he is more of a pessimist than idealist.

Spoiler

He is totally not buying the whole "We are chosen by Iomedae" thing, while being her actual follower.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I disagree. I made an argument earlier, that given real power in his hands, a naive idealist will be more damaging than a simpleton looking to climb the ladder of power.

Well If you'd played the game a bit father, you'd got to the part where Lann absolutely abhor idea of getting into his hands any power over other people's lives. And he is more of a pessimist than idealist.

Spoiler

He is totally not buying the whole "We are chosen by Iomedae" thing, while being her actual follower.

1. You could say he already is getting power at every mythic level up :D
2. If I stretch my argument a little further - one does not always assume power by his own will. I can't say if I'm being prejudicial about him or it's just the writing not really trying to develop his character in that direction to show his flaws.

 

[ArchAngel]

Second run through Chapter 4, surprised how much stuff I missed by not making liberal use of Dimension Door the last time around.

Spoiler

Anyone figure out what the deal with the "Demodand Conspiracy" is?

I found a place in Act 3

Spoiler

that you can only reach with DD and it releases a Greater Shadow when you try to loot items there.

where is it?

Black gay cleric quest map with huge purple dildo that tries to ram all of your characters.

There is a perception check that shows up an athletic check to go on top there, I think you faied it. So no need for DD.

True, it was DC 34 or something and all my guys rolled low and got at most 32 total result

 

[Rieser]

Owlcat attempts math.

 

[Nikanuur]

How do I actually unlock different new troops to recruit? I've built the pre-requisite archery range and barracks. Those say I can recruit many new units but nothing appears in the recruiting screen apart the very basic 2 units that have been there from the start.

I don't know how it works, but I happened to get new units only via council events or decrees stuff.

Thanks, everyone. I will grow the town and wait then. In the meantime, please don't stare that much on Nenio's tale, I was first!

 

[thesheeep]

Why did you take the whiner over spider lady though?

Because she's retarded evil traitor. Why would anyone want that thing in the party?

Exactly this.
It makes 0 sense for anyone, evil or not, to take Wenduag into your party - she is basically introduced by betraying her boss on a whim just because she SUSPECTS you are stronger.
What would stop her from betraying you the second she as much as suspects someone out there is stronger than you?

It's absurd.

I disagree. I made an argument earlier, that given real power in his hands, a naive idealist will be more damaging than a simpleton looking to climb the ladder of power.

I don't see what that argument has to do with why you would or wouldn't take a person that you KNOW will backstab you at any given moment into your party.

This isn't like Kingmaker where you actually give companions executive power. They just kinda tag along with you.
Those with actual executive power (Irabeth, Anevia, the queen, etc.) are all just NPCs.

This is about people fighting alongside you. You don't have to like them, but you definitely have to be able to trust them to not just try to kill you on a whim.
Which is exactly what the game tells you Wenduag will do without hesitation, so ??????

 

[ArchAngel]

Why did you take the whiner over spider lady though?

Because she's retarded evil traitor. Why would anyone want that thing in the party?

Exactly this.
It makes 0 sense for anyone, evil or not, to take Wenduag into your party - she is basically introduced by betraying her boss on a whim just because she SUSPECTS you are stronger.
What would stop her from betraying you the second she as much as suspects someone out there is stronger than you?

It's absurd.

I disagree. I made an argument earlier, that given real power in his hands, a naive idealist will be more damaging than a simpleton looking to climb the ladder of power.

I don't see what that argument has to do with why you would or wouldn't take a person that you KNOW will backstab you at any given moment into your party.

This isn't like Kingmaker where you actually give companions executive power. They just kinda tag along with you.
Those with actual executive power (Irabeth, Anevia, the queen, etc.) are all just NPCs.

This is about people fighting alongside you. You don't have to like them, but you definitely have to be able to trust them to not just try to kill you on a whim.
Which is exactly what the game tells you Wenduag will do without hesitation, so ??????

Because you trust your ability to survive such backstab and you find them useful until that point. Wenduag is by far the strongest companion in the game. Her damage output is crazy.

 

[Sunri]

Wenduag is loyal as dog to you or at least as cat if you don't act like weak cuck around her and shes cute

 

[Reinhardt]

Wenduag is loyal as dog to you or at least as cat if you don't act like weak cuck around her and shes cute

You know you are now acting like weak cuck, right?

 

[AwesomeButton]

I don't see what that argument has to do with why you would or wouldn't take a person that you KNOW will backstab you at any given moment into your party.

This isn't like Kingmaker where you actually give companions executive power. They just kinda tag along with you.
Those with actual executive power (Irabeth, Anevia, the queen, etc.) are all just NPCs.

This is about people fighting alongside you. You don't have to like them, but you definitely have to be able to trust them to not just try to kill you on a whim.
Which is exactly what the game tells you Wenduag will do without hesitation, so ??????

Instead of typing up a long answer, I'll just give you this: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105695/characters/nm0941316

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Wenduag is loyal as dog to you or at least as cat if you don't act like weak cuck around her and shes cute

You know you are now acting like weak cuck, right?

Don't bully our autistic Polishboi.

 

[ArchAngel]

So the game has a Black Lady, Bitey Lady, Cat Lady, Foxy Lady, Horny Lady and a Crazy Lady.

Spoiler

and a secret Dead Lady

 

[Shadenuat]

Storywise, I would rate Kingmaker's ch1 >> Wrath's ch1

Ch1 is so bad, that once before sleep I began writing fanfiction on how I would fix it but obviously didnt cause it doesnt matter.

WANNA READ IT

Spoiler

My idea was that MC is some kind of hidden demon murder case happenings survivor like in Caladon in Arcanum. He gets dragged into hospital PST-style where Sosiel helps treating him. It's a different Sosiel tho, he is dressed in robes Virgil-style instead and is all idealistic healer, saying he is from poor family who got on their feet because his cool brother managed to become a knight, and so he himself became healer here. Anyway, MC being lone surviva is used by Hulrun to make you bait to find potential danger in the city, ending up helpin to jail Woljif, who got into trouble without knowing it or gettin his hands on dangerous artifact (yea that thing). While going around you meet some companions, trying to find potential baddie, including ending up attacked in dark alley by Camelia, who covers it up by saying she thought you're the murderer and she defended herself; you meet Ember asking for alms etc.

Obviouzly getting Woljif into prison in place X with item Y was demon plan all along. But it is your first Heracles Labour: you helped find "culprit". +Respect. It was mini tutorial, no demons.

MC then is brought to Daeran who has to do noble/reward MC things and ends up spending night in Daeran mansion. When they wake up everything is silent and there are no people but Daeran in mansion drinking and playing his morning harpischord or something. You can barely see some Gothic-barrier/wards protecting city far away from balcony humming/flashing peacefully. Daeran behaves a bit irrational tho, like he's dreaming, but then snaps out of it (hint on his story). Still no demons tho.

There is some banging on the door suddenly, it opens... it's Seelah. She and 2 guards were sent to retrieve Daeran into some Safe Space on Hulrun orders. It's all Silent Hill mysterious. Daeran says he has carriage, you go there but horses obviously are missing. Silent Hill intensifies, and as you go into the fogged city, it's all surreal, streets change directions, noise of someone dragged somewhere, until you find like half of dead horse or something.
It's then when demons attack for first time. Daeran grabs rapier from his belt and burns one of them though with some rayz. When asked about his skillz, he says it is a duty of a noble to be competent at fighting just as at drinkin and whoring. He even has STR 10.

Seelah, instead of screaming she found something, uses her ex-Rogue skillz. She is not proud of this but she says she has duty to get Daeran to safety (who obviously comments on her ass and behaves a bit ass) and she knows how to get safe around city as an ex-street rat and she knows of mongrel tunnels underground because she used to do smuggling. And so through ever changing (by demon magix) streets she leads you to Tavern where are some other survivors. (at some point using giant part of dead dragon as a bridge to get from location a to b, or some other dark souls hint nonsense, like seeing a whole tunnel cut through houses Sigil-style by a demon lord).

Some other guyz lost in city can join you depending on your alignment, and then you need to defend tavern until guards/workers clear barricaded entrance into Mongrel tunnels.

You go into tunnels, track Lann/Wendu, enter mongrel village which is a small hub, and then with mongrel help track various NPCs around city, and then join Irabeth in attack on World Stone, sorry, guard stone. You also resolve conflict between Lann & Wendu, and depending on how you do it (search for sword or do something else) you get Angel or Demon "hint" of power. Also you got your 2d Heracles Labour: saved asshole who is Queens nephew. ++Respect.
In critical moment of a fight minago/irabeth/maybe qwan arrives trying to get to the stone/do something to it, but power from it suddenly goes right into MC chest wound DA3 style. Everyone is butthurt. Queen suspicious. But you helped with assault and foiled plans of Minagho.

Third Heralces Labour. +++Respect. People demand you be part of Crusade now, Queen has to comply and makes you a Protector, who is going to drag around army of mongrels/ember worshippers/survivors (so basically reserves/scout/flank force).

Ch2 is same but instead of 1 army (yours) there are multiple armies moving around, including Queen (whos way of fighting is mostly lolrushing things), Regills, etc. You go around trying to save everyones ass. In mysterious ruins you meet a strange girl who lost memories obsessed with puzzles. And her dungeon holds Aeon power. And then other dungeons hold some other mythic hints/powers. Anyway, with all these companions and powers (and maybe some strange hints given by either Vorlesh or Erushalae since Tutorial) you are critical at making Drezen fall, ++++Respect you Commander now.

Ch3 is same but Queen becomes paranoid. All these Heracles Labours made people like you more than her. She begins to give you impossible orders, which ends up you kicking off into Abyss. You begin using your mythic powers to secretly grow your own forces, like building a secret bunker undead ziggurat under that church where you met Zacharius. How you prepare your own counter plans depend on your mythics - it is easier to be good and angel and all that, while being evil you have to maneuvre around Queen spies.

Ch4 is Abyss. Who you ally there or not depends on Mythic.

Ch5 you return and Ch is wholly based on your Mythic. If you are Angel you redeem the Qwan and she becomes companion, if Lich you lead assault of undead from ziggurat obliterating her forces with Brotherhood of Nod obelisks of Light etc. All as planned by Vorlesh, probably.

Ch6 you kick rest of the demons/Vorlesh in the nuts and game ending wholly depends on your Mythic choices.