Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Mauman]

Actually I was wondering how it does work. Does it affect the spell DC (lowering it by 1 ?) or nah? Does it mean you can completely normal the spell and then heighten it to 1 a heigher DC?
Otherwise I like the idea of using to lower the cost of other metamagic (if they can be combined), like 2-cost quicken with favorite metamagic.

It doesn't mess with your DC's.

It does count as metamagic for spontaneous casters, which means full round casting for these "cantrips". Non-spontaneous/arcanist casters are exempt from this. So taking "completely normal spell" basically means you get to cast all your 1st level spells as you see fit as a standard action (cool, eh?). Now just imagine suddenly having 10-20 infinite use abilities to use (feels good man).

Not to mention that non-spontaneous/arcanist caster suffers no penalties for "shifting" their whole spellbook down one level. It even lets said casters start spells a level early by learning them by scroll before they can normally cast them. That being said, spontaneous/full time casting or not, there's a lot of value in infinite divine shields, protections from evil/chaos, and cure light wounds...among others.

Also, yeah, the feat and favored quicken stack. In fact, that's the way I'd recommend using the feat with spontaneous casters. Cuts down the sting of the whole "full round casting time" thing.

 

[Delterius]

Actually I was wondering how it does work. Does it affect the spell DC (lowering it by 1 ?) or nah? Does it mean you can completely normal the spell and then heighten it to 1 a heigher DC?
Otherwise I like the idea of using to lower the cost of other metamagic (if they can be combined), like 2-cost quicken with favorite metamagic.

It doesn't mess with your DC's.

It does, actually. Owlcat's implementation doesn't distinguish between changing a spell's level using metamagic and changing a spell's DC via heighten. So a level 0 Grease has no spell level bonuses to its DC. The bright side is that you don't need heighten magic, just add Quicken to a spell to increase its DC by 4.

Another thing of note, I'm told that while you can create cantrips with Completely Normal Spell, they won't show up as castable spells in your character.

 

[Mauman]

It does, actually. Owlcat's implementation doesn't distinguish between changing a spell's level using metamagic and changing a spell's DC via heighten. So a level 0 Grease has no spell level bonuses to its DC. The bright side is that you don't need heighten magic, just add Quicken to a spell to increase its DC by 4.

Another thing of note, I'm told that while you can create cantrips with Completely Normal Spell, they won't show up as castable spells in your character.

Nope, wrong. I literally just tested a level one ear-piercing scream and "cantrip" ear-piercing scream.

They both said in the description that the dc was 22, and when used on another creature, the combat log both stated the DC to beat was 22. Then I tested with grease (level 1 version and 0 version) just to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Sure enough....

Does not mess with your DC's in anyways whatsoever. So definitely hard NOPE on this one.

Also, the inability to cast the "cantrips" got fixed in the recent patch, so now you can.

edit - also, to make sure this wasn't just a "cantrip" thing, I just tested a level 3 spell and it's level 2 version. No changes in Difficulty checks.

 

[Delterius]

It does, actually. Owlcat's implementation doesn't distinguish between changing a spell's level using metamagic and changing a spell's DC via heighten. So a level 0 Grease has no spell level bonuses to its DC. The bright side is that you don't need heighten magic, just add Quicken to a spell to increase its DC by 4.

Another thing of note, I'm told that while you can create cantrips with Completely Normal Spell, they won't show up as castable spells in your character.

Nope, wrong. I literally just tested a level one ear-piercing scream and "cantrip" ear-piercing scream.

They both said in the description that the dc was 22, and when used on another creature, the combat log both stated the DC to beat was 22. Then I tested with grease (level 1 version and 0 version) just to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Sure enough....

Does not mess with your DC's in anyways whatsoever. So definitely hard NOPE on this one.

Also, the inability to cast the "cantrips" got fixed in the recent patch, so now you can.

Ok, cool. These are new developments from last patch. Glad to know. Do DCs work as expected if you combine CNS and other metamagic? Can you choose CNS as Favorite Metamagic for -2 to spells? What about the stacking CNS with itself exploit?

 

[Mauman]

It does, actually. Owlcat's implementation doesn't distinguish between changing a spell's level using metamagic and changing a spell's DC via heighten. So a level 0 Grease has no spell level bonuses to its DC. The bright side is that you don't need heighten magic, just add Quicken to a spell to increase its DC by 4.

Another thing of note, I'm told that while you can create cantrips with Completely Normal Spell, they won't show up as castable spells in your character.

Nope, wrong. I literally just tested a level one ear-piercing scream and "cantrip" ear-piercing scream.

They both said in the description that the dc was 22, and when used on another creature, the combat log both stated the DC to beat was 22. Then I tested with grease (level 1 version and 0 version) just to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Sure enough....

Does not mess with your DC's in anyways whatsoever. So definitely hard NOPE on this one.

Also, the inability to cast the "cantrips" got fixed in the recent patch, so now you can.

Ok, cool. These are new developments from last patch. Glad to know. Do DCs work as expected if you combine CNS and other metamagic? Can you choose CNS as Favorite Metamagic for -2 to spells? What about the stacking CNS with itself exploit?

The exploit still works unfortunately. Bit messed up that. I didn't even THINK of Favored CNS.

 

[Delterius]

I didn't even THINK of Favored CNS.

Heyy I mean, favored metamagic says you can't go below 0 but we're there already :D.

 

[volklore]

Speaking of DCs who do not work as expected, Ode to Miraculous magic azata spell does not work on my save. It doesn't increase the DC of will based spells of my character. I have read that it is supposed to be one of the functionnal azata spells but it isn't for me... I also seem to be getting a phantom +1 Will DC from that staff you get in the shield maze wether it is equipped or not which is strange. Maybe because I respecced at lvl 3 some patches ago back when some bonuses could keep on the character after respec... I wonder now how much of my save is bricked.

 

[Mauman]

I didn't even THINK of Favored CNS.

Heyy I mean, favored metamagic says you can't go below 0 but we're there already :D.

So I think the metamagic DC issue has been fixed. I was looking/testing at spells that I have multiple levels and they're all doing their appropriate dc saves. (as in a base 3rd level spell has a DC of a 3rd level spell even if it's quickened and empowered)

I might quickly do some toyboxing to see if favored CNS is a thing.

 

[volklore]

It does, actually. Owlcat's implementation doesn't distinguish between changing a spell's level using metamagic and changing a spell's DC via heighten. So a level 0 Grease has no spell level bonuses to its DC. The bright side is that you don't need heighten magic, just add Quicken to a spell to increase its DC by 4.

Another thing of note, I'm told that while you can create cantrips with Completely Normal Spell, they won't show up as castable spells in your character.

Nope, wrong. I literally just tested a level one ear-piercing scream and "cantrip" ear-piercing scream.

They both said in the description that the dc was 22, and when used on another creature, the combat log both stated the DC to beat was 22. Then I tested with grease (level 1 version and 0 version) just to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Sure enough....

Does not mess with your DC's in anyways whatsoever. So definitely hard NOPE on this one.

Also, the inability to cast the "cantrips" got fixed in the recent patch, so now you can.

Ok, cool. These are new developments from last patch. Glad to know. Do DCs work as expected if you combine CNS and other metamagic? Can you choose CNS as Favorite Metamagic for -2 to spells? What about the stacking CNS with itself exploit?

The exploit still works unfortunately. Bit messed up that. I didn't even THINK of Favored CNS.

I thought favored metamagic was shortlisted, i.e no persistent and i am assuming no CNS...

 

[Mauman]

It does, actually. Owlcat's implementation doesn't distinguish between changing a spell's level using metamagic and changing a spell's DC via heighten. So a level 0 Grease has no spell level bonuses to its DC. The bright side is that you don't need heighten magic, just add Quicken to a spell to increase its DC by 4.

Another thing of note, I'm told that while you can create cantrips with Completely Normal Spell, they won't show up as castable spells in your character.

Nope, wrong. I literally just tested a level one ear-piercing scream and "cantrip" ear-piercing scream.

They both said in the description that the dc was 22, and when used on another creature, the combat log both stated the DC to beat was 22. Then I tested with grease (level 1 version and 0 version) just to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Sure enough....

Does not mess with your DC's in anyways whatsoever. So definitely hard NOPE on this one.

Also, the inability to cast the "cantrips" got fixed in the recent patch, so now you can.

Ok, cool. These are new developments from last patch. Glad to know. Do DCs work as expected if you combine CNS and other metamagic? Can you choose CNS as Favorite Metamagic for -2 to spells? What about the stacking CNS with itself exploit?

The exploit still works unfortunately. Bit messed up that. I didn't even THINK of Favored CNS.

I thought favored metamagic was shortlisted, i.e no persistent and i am assuming no CNS...

Yup, you're right. Favored CNS is not on the list....probably for the best.

 

[purupuru]

My brain is starting to have an idea.

If I pick up natures whispers can I for example put everything into CHA and use a finesse weapon and have super high ac and ab?

Maybe dueling sword or elven curve blade.

I don't think it works like that. Nature's Whisper is supposed to use CHA in place of DEX but only for AC and CMD calculation, not with weapon finesse (at least that's what the rule says). You are better off dumping DEX and go all in on STR and CHA.

 

[Ontopoly]

So I did some experimenting with the cleaner mod out of curiosity since so many people were swearing by it.

Both manual and quick saves were taken on the same map in chapter 4's brothel. I played up to the same point on both playthroughs but on one I used the cleaner mod after every map I visited while the other I didn't have cleaner installed and this is the difference between the file sizes. about 1200 KB, so there is some difference but I didn't do as many quests in chapter 4 on the with-cleaner playthrough, and played an azata instead of an aeon.

Not as massive of a difference as I was led on to believe, and I don't know how much of an impact this would have on performance, and some of this difference could be because I did different quests related to different mythic paths or visited a couple extra side locations in the without-cleaner. I did more companion quests and visited a couple extra optional locations on the map in the larger file, it was my first playthrough so I basically took my time with it while I rushed on my second playthrough. Ultimately, I don't think this mod is at all necessary for a playthrough of the game like some people were saying, and I'm not actually sure if it made any difference. It definitely didn't make a significant difference.


Story wise and flavor wise Aeon is so much better than Azata, but mechanically I like Azata a lot more. I originally wanted to play a Druid Azata since they're both about nature but Azata's chaotic nature ruined that idea.

 

[mediocrepoet]

any creature engaging in willing sexual relations with the seducer in this garden gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws

Can you prepare spells while getting a quick handjob?

Better question is, can you fit your whole party in there for the save bonus, or only one member + witch?

I wonder how people would react if the class was in the game, and most effective way to use it would be to run a train on your witch at every rest. Better yet, if someone modded Ember for that class.

This subclass almost makes me wish I had a tabletop group so I could make a purple haired hambeast seducer with an inexplicably high charisma due to "the fey influence" or whatever.

 

[Ontopoly]

Now I just need to decide if I want to continue my Azata or Aeon playthrough... Maybe I'll try a lich.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Ontopoly you don't use mods until the rate of patches decreases to 1 patch per month.

Or you do, and you risk the whole game progress you made before the patch. Some people are OK with that; also, some people play Russian roulette and live.

 

[Ontopoly]

Ontopoly you don't use mods until the rate of patches decreases to 1 patch per month.

Or you do, and you risk the whole game progress you made before the patch. Some people are OK with that; also, some people play Russian roulette and live.

I like to live on the edge. Also my computer has been having a harder and harder time running the game so i was hoping this would have a big impact and save the game for me.

 

[cw8]

5th try on Playful Thing on Core, 68 AC... Seems like the throwing all summons at the uber boss strategy works again. Animate Dead has to be one of my fav or possibly my fav spell in the Pathfinders. At low levels it is godly, at mid to high levels, it's still so useful as a distracting summon. I missed most attacks on Playfuk Thing. But Seelah's Destructive Shockwave Mythic actually did a load of dmg on him... for missing all the time. Heh. The rest of the damage was done by Ember, who actually managed to occasionally hit him with her 16 Scorching Rays. 50K xp from him alone. Same 1+% as the other optional boss in Act 2.

 

[Sunri]

 

[Reinhardt]

I want to register a complaint about the item bloat inside The Enigma. Seriously, there is so much shit in that zone, it needs absolute decluttering.

The puzzles are fine, not too difficult to do and I don't mind them. But because you need to interact with so many objects within the zone it feels mandatory to pick up all this junk just so you can see what you are doing.

Also that pic shows how many overgrown kobolds you actually had to smack with your dagger +18 in average pathfinder dungeon. Many epuk.

 

[Reinhardt]

Butthurt potato tranny is butthut.

 

[Daidre]

Hm, previously, Shaman's Intimidating Display Hex was not counted as Dazzling Display for Shatter Defenses.
I reported it some time ago, and I had not seen this fix anywhere in patch-notes. But it works now.

Looks like Owlcats still love their stealth fixing and patch-notes only show the major, well known issues. Whether it stems from the general chaos in work processes or they are they're just too afraid to show their full ridiculously long list of everything broken at release, who knows.

 

[Yosharian]

so we had a discussion in Discord about STM and Outflank stacking, you guys might find something of interest in the results

Spoiler

Long story short: no they don't stack

 

[Nahel]

I don't understand why romance for good-aligned men, from regular one to epic should always be about forgiving a woman for from 100 to 10000 years of crime, eating babies and destroying kingdoms. Is that girl fanfiction thing? Perfect husbandu forgives waifu all?

My loyal good paladin executed her on the spot pissing of the lantern king.
Lost companions because of her, because of bugs not yet fixed.
Only chaotic good or chaotic neutral should even think of forgiving her, let alone romancing her.

She is an horrible war criminal at best and did enough death to make camelia pause....

 

[Tacgnol]

Hm, previously, Shaman's Intimidating Display Hex was not counted as Dazzling Display for Shatter Defenses.
I reported it some time ago, and I had not seen this fix anywhere in patch-notes. But it works now.

Looks like Owlcats still love their stealth fixing and patch-notes only show the major, well known issues. Whether it stems from the general chaos in work processes or they are they're just too afraid to show their full ridiculously long list of everything broken at release, who knows.

I get the feeling their patching process is rather haphazard and disorganised.

It might be that someone working on the patch slipped something in without telling anyone, or at least forgetting to tell others what they were working on.

 

[Joggerino]

I don't understand why romance for good-aligned men, from regular one to epic should always be about forgiving a woman for from 100 to 10000 years of crime, eating babies and destroying kingdoms. Is that girl fanfiction thing? Perfect husbandu forgives waifu all?

Exactly...

In case of Arueahalae is even worse. She worked in a brothel, had thousands of demon and demonologist dicks inside her every year for aeons. But for the mc, she demand love and commitment.

Classic college girl