Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Cryomancer]

I honestly don't wanna to deal with the slog that is late ch 5 and ch 6. So a question. Does favorable magic works with illusion spells? Or Transmutation? I wanna make a wizard focused on one of this two schools next.

For a Dhampir ilusionist wizard, is better to go Azata or Demon for high DC? And please. Don't suggest gnome to me. I know that gnomes are the best illusionists but I don't like manlets.

 

[Yosharian]

Oh never mind you're using Ascended cold instead, why though? Cold isn't really well represented among the blast spells

I was planing to focus more on ice prison and ice prison, mass. Sadly both are bugged in game. And I like cryomancy. "But respec into lightning, you will get more DC" -> NO!!!! I don't min max. EVER!! I play what is fun for me. And respec = decline.

Glad to see you got the hyperbeams online.

I din't decided to make a game so epic that PCs has enough power to kill a dozen of ancient red dragons in a single turn twice(yes, 772 damage can kill every ancient red dragon that the chain touches twice), if was up to me, this game would be high level but not THAT high level.

Yeah the icy prison situation is weird. That spell completely dominated Kingmaker

 

[Delterius]

Kinda torn between going Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight for my final Trickster run. Kinda leaning on the latter because you can start using the Improved Critical feats earlier.

 

[LannTheStupid]

What do you mean?

What you answered. For some reason I overlooked this spell; makes sense to pay more attention to it.

Thank you.

 

[Sharpedge]

Oh never mind you're using Ascended cold instead, why though? Cold isn't really well represented among the blast spells

I was planing to focus more on ice prison and ice prison, mass. Sadly both are bugged in game. And I like cryomancy. "But respec into lightning, you will get more DC" -> NO!!!! I don't min max. EVER!! I play what is fun for me. And respec = decline.

Glad to see you got the hyperbeams online.

I din't decided to make a game so epic that PCs has enough power to kill a dozen of ancient red dragons in a single turn twice(yes, 772 damage can kill every ancient red dragon that the chain touches twice), if was up to me, this game would be high level but not THAT high level.

I recommend putting your Cryomancer build on ice until Owlcat gets around to fixing it. They do however address bugs at a glacial pace, so you may want to play something else in the interim. I know you have said you do not like Pun-Pun builds, but in the interest of helping you kill some time could I recommend something along the lines of an Aeon Summoner or a Necromantic Lich? If those aren't entirely up your alley, you could even try something a little weird like a Demon Illusionist. If those options aren't good enough for you though, an Angel Oracle build is truly divine.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Oh never mind you're using Ascended cold instead, why though? Cold isn't really well represented among the blast spells

I was planing to focus more on ice prison and ice prison, mass. Sadly both are bugged in game. And I like cryomancy. "But respec into lightning, you will get more DC" -> NO!!!! I don't min max. EVER!! I play what is fun for me. And respec = decline.

Glad to see you got the hyperbeams online.

I din't decided to make a game so epic that PCs has enough power to kill a dozen of ancient red dragons in a single turn twice(yes, 772 damage can kill every ancient red dragon that the chain touches twice), if was up to me, this game would be high level but not THAT high level.

I recommend putting your Cryomancer build on ice until Owlcat gets around to fixing it. They do however address bugs at a glacial pace, so you may want to play something else in the interim. I know you have said you do not like Pun-Pun builds, but in the interest of helping you kill some time could I recommend something along the lines of an Aeon Summoner or a Necromantic Lich? If those aren't entirely up your alley, you could even try something a little weird like a Demon Illusionist. If those options aren't good enough for you though, an Angel Oracle build is truly divine.

Or stop being a fairy and pick up a sword and some armour.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Or stop being a fairy and pick up a sword and some armour.

Why? Pajama tanks are the best tanks. And the best swords are those which just appear from nowhere or are not swords at all.

On the other note: how viable is a pure Cruoromancer for Hard? I am not seeing any builds for it, especially on the nuInEffect site. Does it mean it is woefully weak?

 

[Cryomancer]

Or stop being a fairy and pick up a sword and some armour.

No, only weaklings needs swords and armor.

how viable is a pure Cruoromancer for Hard?

Depends on your mythic path, I played mostly on core as a pure cruoromancer on core, so IDK about hard or unfair but in core, was pretty viable. You just need to be creative in SOME quests.

I recommend putting your Cryomancer build on ice until Owlcat gets around to fixing it.

I understand. Just got tired of waiting and kept playing as an Azata cold elemental specialist... Sadly OwlCat never fixes ice prison. At lv 20 with spell specialization, would require a 22 STR check to break free, meaning that even ch 1 enemies can break free if they roll high. In P&P, it would require 37. Meaning that the monster would have to have +17 STR mod(or 44 STR) to break free from the ice if he rolls 20.

And this talking about late game. The +15 missing makes a huge difference in chapter 2 and 3 as even casters can pass the STR check by rolling low.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Or stop being a fairy and pick up a sword and some armour.

Why? Pajama tanks are the best tanks. And the best swords are those which just appear from nowhere or are not swords at all.

On the other note: how viable is a pure Cruoromancer for Hard? I am not seeing any builds for it, especially on the nuInEffect site. Does it mean it is woefully weak?

Frankly you could do pure cruo even on unfair if you were lich pretty decently. It's basically just +1 dc to necromancy spells, nothing special but it's still a full wizard so it's fine.

 

[Cryomancer]

Or stop being a fairy and pick up a sword and some armour.

Why? Pajama tanks are the best tanks. And the best swords are those which just appear from nowhere or are not swords at all.

On the other note: how viable is a pure Cruoromancer for Hard? I am not seeing any builds for it, especially on the nuInEffect site. Does it mean it is woefully weak?

Frankly you could do pure cruo even on unfair if you were lich pretty decently. It's basically just +1 dc to necromancy spells, nothing special but it's still a full wizard so it's fine.

Not only that. Animate dead at lv 5 while regular wizards only gets it at lv 7 and buffing undeads created by it. Gebbian necromancer background + blood infusion allows you to have really powerful undeads.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Frankly you could do pure cruo even on unfair if you were lich pretty decently. It's basically just +1 dc to necromancy spells, nothing special but it's still a full wizard so it's fine.

What about his ability to summon more undead? Are more bodies on the battlefield so useless?

Not only that. Animate dead at lv 5 while regular wizards only gets it at lv 7 and buffing undeads created by it. Gebbian necromancer background + blood infusion allows you to have really powerful undeads.

I see. Thank you for the insight.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Frankly you could do pure cruo even on unfair if you were lich pretty decently. It's basically just +1 dc to necromancy spells, nothing special but it's still a full wizard so it's fine.

What about his ability to summon more undead? Are more bodies on the battlefield so useless?

Not only that. Animate dead at lv 5 while regular wizards only gets it at lv 7 and buffing undeads created by it. Gebbian necromancer background + blood infusion allows you to have really powerful undeads.

I see. Thank you for the insight.

I don't think cruo gets more undead? Just +4 to physical stats when summoning undead, which is alright. I'm not sure if summoned undead have a con score or not, if they do it's pretty nice, if they don't it's still a nice boost but not that strong since summons are mostly just to tank hits. Meredoth is right that getting it earlier is very good though, it's the best level 3 spell in the game imo.

 

[Cryomancer]

What about his ability to summon more undead? Are more bodies on the battlefield so useless?

No, more bodies even if they will not hit anything means that they will serve as distraction. However, in game he doesn't summon more undead. Just buffs a bit(contrary to P&P) and getting animate dead at lv 5 is amazing. When you reach lv 7, you will have boneshatter, boneshake and animate dead at your disposal. And when you merge spellbook to lich, you will get access to high level magic in chapter 2.

Not mentioning the OP tier 10 spells which you will probably only get in late chapter 5 but are extremely op.

t. I'm not sure if summoned undead have a con score or not

They don't have con score, however, I tested the hit points of the undeads with and without the blood infusion. There are a difference in their health polls according to my test(probably due cha score)

BTW, in my first run as a cruoromancer, I din't did the lich ascension. Why? HOW DA FUCK A PURE PILE OF BONE WILL USE BLOOD INFUSIONS??? Not mentioning that you already can heal from negative energy as a half vampire. And IMO vampires are the collest form of undeads. If I had understood how to code better a mod for this game, I would create a vampire lord mod, but modifying mythic paths doesn't seem easy.

 

[Crispy]

So it begins.

I like the touch of the banner. Does that same banner appear there for everyone, or only for the Lich Mythic Path?

 

[LannTheStupid]

IMO vampires are the collest form of undeads.

It's... debatable. Vampires need to get blood somewhere and maybe because of that they have to form hierarchies and organizations, like in the World of Darkness setting. A Lich can just sleep for millennia if something is wrong - as Vordakai did. Surely, it has its own drawbacks, but still.

Anyway, I know what my 2nd playthrough will be.

If I had understood how to code better a mod for this game, I would create a vampire lord mod

It's not only about the code. You need to create a story relevant to the biography of the main hero (including all the secrets). It has to be believable and cool. You need to write separate plots and dialogues for all the companions and some NPC's as well. And I am sure you need some (or maybe a lot) of graphical assets to add to this Path. Probably even some completely new NPC's with their own dialogues, portraits and models.

IMHO coding might be the simplest part of this.

 

[Cryomancer]

Vampires need to get blood somewhere and maybe because of that they have to form hierarchies and organizations, like in the World of Darkness setting. A Lich can just sleep for millennia if something is wrong - as Vordakai did. Surely, it has its own drawbacks, but still.

Think a bit on how is to (un)life as a lich. No ability to fell pleasure from touch, food, enjoy a wine, deformity forcing you to use illusion magic every time that you go into a city and if someone steals your philactery, you are his slave. Now, a high level vampire wizard focused on necromancy, he probably can easily become noble, owns a lot of servants and as he is a high level wizard, sun is not a problem(just control weather). I'm not comparing the average lich with average vampire. I'm comparing the (un) life which a lv 17+ caster would have becoming either of the two undeads.

You need to create a story relevant to the biography of the main hero (including all the secrets). It has to be believable and cool. You need to write separate plots and dialogues for all the companions and some NPC's as well. And I am sure you need some (or maybe a lot) of graphical assets to add to this Path. Probably even some completely new NPC's with their own dialogues, portraits and models.

I know. If I do it, would be a later mythic path, something simple, like if you refuse Zacharius ritual, he become hostile, you kill him and in his corpse you find a "ancient vampire blood" sample and research notes(he said that he researched vampirism too, it would make sense) and find a story about how the first vampire was a mortal who resisted the corruption of a succubus. Drinking that blood would make you a vampire.

The vampire template already exists in the game. Graphical assets? Just replace teh skeleton pet with a shadow demon pet. Give undead and vampire template. +3 on illusion DC, weakness vs holy and fire, makes illusions more real and the path is implemented.

The problem is that I don't know how to do it. I'm a code monkey IRL but don't have much experience with modding.

Now, if the vapmire mythic path is since chapter 2, then yes, would be insanely hard to implement it.

 

[Serious_Business]

Think a bit on how is to (un)life as a lich. No ability to fell pleasure from touch, food, enjoy a wine, deformity forcing you to use illusion magic every time that you go into a city and if someone steals your philactery, you are his slave.

Utter nonsense. The pleasure of infinite power and knowledge is the center of the lich experience. You can keep your touching and such. As far as deformity goes, well yes of course : one shall get no peace from little creatures (women and so on) unless they are utterly repugnant ; it has to be so in order to carry on loftier concerns. As for the phylactery, I toss it into a planar maze, of course. Good luck getting there and "making me your slave". I'll tell you the key to reach it : you have to cut off your own dick and wave it in from of your girlfriend, and recite the incantation : I am a faggot

 

[ga♥]

Don't liches require to consume souls or something?

 

[The_Mask]

Does that same banner appear there for everyone, or only for the Lich Mythic Path?

The Sword of Valor changes appearance for each path. I haven't seen all of them, but having gone through like... 5 of them, all are unique, so far.

 

[Delterius]

undead lovers are nerds, even in wizard school, and are shunned by the chad evocation-enervation clubs

we need to implement a renewed bullying in schools act

 

[Cryomancer]

undead lovers are nerds, even in wizard school, and are shunned by the chad evocation-enervation clubs

we need to implement a renewed bullying in schools act

Wrong. Necromancers are masters of life, undeath and death itself. Evocation specialists are merely glorified pyromaniacs. Undeads don't age, don't need food or water, don't get disease and are the superior form. Even the most gorgeous woman will eventually age and become uggly, but a vampire bride will be forever gorgeous.

In Faerun, the strongest Red Wizard is a necromancer. The unique Netherese archwizard who survived the Karsus fall was a necromancer who shifted his city to the shadowfell.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Think a bit on how is to (un)life as a lich. No ability to fell pleasure from touch, food, enjoy a wine, deformity forcing you to use illusion magic every time that you go into a city and if someone steals your philactery, you are his slave. Now, a high level vampire wizard focused on necromancy, he probably can easily become noble, owns a lot of servants and as he is a high level wizard, sun is not a problem(just control weather). I'm not comparing the average lich with average vampire. I'm comparing the (un) life which a lv 17+ caster would have becoming either of the two undeads.

Well, that was partly my point: a Lich is about magical "technology" - build a phylactery, store it somewhere, use some kind of glamor for public appearances (why, though? just enforce someone to steal those books) and so on. However, Vordakai spent several years in court and was pretty OK - but maybe he was just bored of long sleep.

A Vampire is about socializing - gaining status in the Masquerade, intrigues, pleasures of an opposite (or the same (or both)) sex and so on. I prefer the former, but I understand the appeal of the latter.

you kill him and in his corpse you find a "ancient vampire blood" sample and research notes(he said that he researched vampirism too, it would make sense) and find a story about how the first vampire was a mortal who resisted the corruption of a succubus. Drinking that blood would make you a vampire.

Hmm... this is different from what I remember of Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines. Someone has to be the Sire, the Vampire starts as a fledgling and then grows on... I don't know. Such a shortcut seems kind of hollow for a proper Vampire Lord path; but it's just my opinion.

we need to implement a renewed bullying in schools act

The point of bullying is someone gets humiliated, but no one gets killed. Any confrontation with a Lich means someone dies or gets destroyed.

I think such high stakes are not for bullies. May be for soldiers at worst, and then for warriors and other fortune seekers.

 

[Cryomancer]

A Vampire is about socializing

Depends on the vampire. A toreador in World of Darkness? yes. A Nosferatu in WoD? No. Strahd in D&D? No.

Hmm... this is different from what I remember of Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines. Someone has to be the Sire, the Vampire starts as a fledgling and then grows on... I don't know. Such a shortcut seems kind of hollow for a proper Vampire Lord path; but it's just my opinion.

VtMB is not the unique setting with vampires.

In D&D, many consider Strhad, a 16th level necromancer as the first vampire, he got vampirism as a curse from the Dark Powers of the realms of Dread.

Other origin of vampirism is different in other sources on D&D. "The Lords of Darkness (1988) accessory described a "greater vampire" which was created from the life-draining kiss of a succubus. : https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire

In case of Strahd, when he was alive, he was extremely weak. A mere lv 5 magic user. After becoming the Dark Lord of Barovia, the Dark Powers betowed a lot of power on him and after many centuries studding and practicing, he become a 16th level necromancer(in 2E, woketards destroyed ravenloft imo).

In Pathfinder "Vampires on Golarion share a common ancestor, the strigoi, who came from the Plane of Shadow for reasons lost to history. The Whispering Way believes a necromancer opened a portal to bring strigoi to Golarion. .[4]" https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Vampire

That said, Starting as a fledgling and gradually growing would be better but would require too much time and effort.

 

[mediocrepoet]

This is like watching a "Who is the biggest loser" contest between the bug collection club and the incel coalition.

As sad as this thread was without Desiderius, you guys take it to new depths.

 

[ga♥]

Honestly vampires are very cringe, high level mages must agree it since they universally prefer lichdom over it.