Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[ga♥]

I'm having big problems with the fight at the end of the demodand quest.

Spoiler

The archers just obliterate the squishies, and the stringy demodands that spawn in right on top of the backline don't help. And the rest of the encounter (3 gallus, 4 high level kineticists and 1 super strong alchemist) aren't really pushovers either. And everything has a lot of buffs, massive hp pools and high saves in every category. I suspect the correct strategy is to use some very metagamey mass dimension door to teleport all squishies up to the second level while the bruisers stay on the ground floor (I tried teleporting everyone, but the balconies are too narrow so you just trip over yourself). Even then, the archers just have high enough initative that I am guaranteed to lose one character before they get a chance to act.

Doesn't help that the displacement buff they have seems to ignore true seeing.

Weird getting rid of some mob helped a lot.

I have not hit level 17, so I can't cast weird, and I don't think I have any scrolls for it. Is there an act 4 vendor who sells them?

I did consider "tsunami scroll spam" as a potentially viable tactic, but I haven't tried it yet, and im not sure I can consistently beat the DCs for the scrolls.

Well you will reach level 17 eventually can just leave it for later, I don't think there is a weird scroll anywhere in the game. Check the fleshmarket though.

 

[volklore]

I'm having big problems with the fight at the end of the demodand quest.

Spoiler

The archers just obliterate the squishies, and the stringy demodands that spawn in right on top of the backline don't help. And the rest of the encounter (3 gallus, 4 high level kineticists and 1 super strong alchemist) aren't really pushovers either. And everything has a lot of buffs, massive hp pools and high saves in every category. I suspect the correct strategy is to use some very metagamey mass dimension door to teleport all squishies up to the second level while the bruisers stay on the ground floor (I tried teleporting everyone, but the balconies are too narrow so you just trip over yourself). Even then, the archers just have high enough initative that I am guaranteed to lose one character before they get a chance to act.

Doesn't help that the displacement buff they have seems to ignore true seeing.

Weird getting rid of some mob helped a lot.

I have not hit level 17, so I can't cast weird, and I don't think I have any scrolls for it. Is there an act 4 vendor who sells them?

The Fleshmarket scroll magic vendor has tons of high level scrolls. Also I would advise to finish the main quest up until you get M6 before this fight. And maybe use this occasion to pick mythic improved initiative. Buff all your characters with cat's grace and so on. Nenio can keep archers and sometimes gallus depending on what difficulty you play on, with stormbolts. when they are stunned, have a ranged pick them off. Use quicken rods so nenio gets two casts per round. The kineticists aren't as dangerous as you'd think since they gather power every 2 round and skip it and they don't have that high range so they will usually target your beefy characters (hopefully with last stand). Main priority target is that alchemist, he needs to die first because he will tear your party apart, while nenio does her best to keep things controlled.
It's a really hard fight tbh, The hardest in the act by far, so leave it for last.

 

[volklore]

The above discussions do not help with my autism in deciding what to play for my Trickster run.
Fuck it, I think I'll just do Sylvan Sorc since if fits and call it a day.

I am in the same boat. I've been going back and forth between a mobility 2 trickster (probably a dex slayer or rogue), and a trickery 2/persuasion 1 more supportive build.

The former seems like a really cool rogue style character that stacks movespeed and mobility skill and zips in and out of enemy threat range to make tons of AOOs (needs combat reflexes and really high mobility), but I can't remember how frequently are enemies outfitted with combat reflexes themselves (so they can make more than 1 aoo per round, so you can avoid more than one). One of the cool thing I want to try with that is a necklace you get in wintersun that lets the wearer make a free ranged AOO when an ally within 30feet hits an AOO himself : stick it on an archer while you zip around proccing tons of AOOs. Late game you get mobility 3 for mobility as AC (you can stack that shit really, really high). All those AOOs are at full bab, ignore flat footed immunities and proc sneak attack, reach is a non factor as well, the AOO happens regardless of reach when you avoid an enemy aoo.

The second one is purely skill based so it works on many classes (just need high persuasion and trickery and a thug dip). But I've been agonizing which class. I was probably thinking bard to keep with the supportive theme. This one gets free intimidate check at the start of combat that causes frighten, and Dispell checks made with trickery instead of CLs to strip down bosses of all magical defenses. I would go on and pick the rest of the persuasion feats to trigger more saves. Again not sure how persuasion 3 works, because the wording is unclear, but I have read that it triggers on any successful intimidate.

 

[Delterius]

I would go on and pick the rest of the persuasion feats to trigger more saves. Again not sure how persuasion 3 works, because the wording is unclear, but I have read that it triggers on any successful intimidate.

From what I understand the problem is that the save for Persuasion 2 and 3 isn't based on your skills, rather its based on ranks and on top of that they can't coup de grace themselves (persuasion 3) if they are paralyzed (persuasion 2). I guess you should consider Sylvan Trickster as your hexes are pretty supportive and your trickery is that good.

 

[volklore]

I know that persuasion 2 is based on rank (and idc much for that one since with thug dip I will be C/Cing already) so it's mostly a tax, but persuasion 3 is worded bizarrely'. I have read around and it seems people have the coup the grace trigger regardless of whether or not enemies make their persuasion 2 saves but I could not confirm. That said Persuasion 1 is really good, so I would pick that early and then test out per2 and per3 once I get M6/M7 and saving before to see.

 

[Jaedar]

I'm having big problems with the fight at the end of the demodand quest.

Spoiler

The archers just obliterate the squishies, and the stringy demodands that spawn in right on top of the backline don't help. And the rest of the encounter (3 gallus, 4 high level kineticists and 1 super strong alchemist) aren't really pushovers either. And everything has a lot of buffs, massive hp pools and high saves in every category. I suspect the correct strategy is to use some very metagamey mass dimension door to teleport all squishies up to the second level while the bruisers stay on the ground floor (I tried teleporting everyone, but the balconies are too narrow so you just trip over yourself). Even then, the archers just have high enough initative that I am guaranteed to lose one character before they get a chance to act.

Doesn't help that the displacement buff they have seems to ignore true seeing.

Weird getting rid of some mob helped a lot.

I have not hit level 17, so I can't cast weird, and I don't think I have any scrolls for it. Is there an act 4 vendor who sells them?

I did consider "tsunami scroll spam" as a potentially viable tactic, but I haven't tried it yet, and im not sure I can consistently beat the DCs for the scrolls.

Well you will reach level 17 eventually can just leave it for later, I don't think there is a weird scroll anywhere in the game. Check the fleshmarket though.

I am not sure I will reach level 17 before I run out of other content in act4. I basically only have the arena questline left.

The Fleshmarket scroll magic vendor has tons of high level scrolls

The fleshmarket has been purged

Main priority target is that alchemist

Agreed 100%, but he has iirc 600 hp, and seems to have some kind of triggered defensive ability that disarms you when you strike him in melee. So he's not easy to burst down. I did manage it in some attempts, but in the meantime the 4 archers had killed half my party, and eventually everyone died.

 

[volklore]

You can also summon spam the archers on top of the balcony to keep them busy, same with the kineticists in the backroom. But yeah having good initiative for this stuff is kinda crucial. Also I do not think archers have true sight, so casting greater invis on anything you do not want to get gibbed prior to entering the house is a good plan as well. And also pre-buff FoM in case gallus use their mass stagger ability.

 

[LannTheStupid]

The above discussions do not help with my autism in deciding what to play for my Trickster run.

If you really can't decide, I'd go to the nuInEffect site (https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Main_Character) and get the build there. At least it will be a nice challenge in the name of late Desiderius .

 

[volklore]

Meh InEffect builds are the epitomy of boredom, potion archmage armor and monk dips on every character, they are good but it's super formulaic shit. Trickster is supposed to be fun.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Meh InEffect builds are the epitomy of boredom, potion archmage armor and monk dips on every character, they are good but it's super formulaic shit. Trickster is supposed to be fun.

I had some fun with an Electric Psychokineticist, who fought as a 1 level Traditional Monk with all the mini-bosses in Kenabres. Now I prefer a more conservative approach.

 

[Raghar]

The fleshmarket has been purged

gg

You did well. Now you can replay WotR with different mythic path and attack flesh market again.

 

[Jaedar]

Also I do not think archers have true sight

They do.

You can also summon spam the archers on top of the balcony to keep them busy, same with the kineticists in the backroom

I have tried doing some summons, but they don't reliably attract aggro. The ai in this game can be very inconsistent with its preferred targets thought.

 

[LannTheStupid]

 

[LannTheStupid]

Make Pathfinder Great Again!

 

[proxon]

Also I do not think archers have true sight

They do.

You can also summon spam the archers on top of the balcony to keep them busy, same with the kineticists in the backroom

I have tried doing some summons, but they don't reliably attract aggro. The ai in this game can be very inconsistent with its preferred targets thought.

Try using Holy Word, you should be high enough level to blind them. As a lich i cleared almost all archers with Wail of Banshee, Wenduag and Aru with legendary proportions finished those that stayed alive.

 

[Parabalus]

The above discussions do not help with my autism in deciding what to play for my Trickster run.
Fuck it, I think I'll just do Sylvan Sorc since if fits and call it a day.

I am in the same boat. I've been going back and forth between a mobility 2 trickster (probably a dex slayer or rogue), and a trickery 2/persuasion 1 more supportive build.

The former seems like a really cool rogue style character that stacks movespeed and mobility skill and zips in and out of enemy threat range to make tons of AOOs (needs combat reflexes and really high mobility), but I can't remember how frequently are enemies outfitted with combat reflexes themselves (so they can make more than 1 aoo per round, so you can avoid more than one). One of the cool thing I want to try with that is a necklace you get in wintersun that lets the wearer make a free ranged AOO when an ally within 30feet hits an AOO himself : stick it on an archer while you zip around proccing tons of AOOs. Late game you get mobility 3 for mobility as AC (you can stack that shit really, really high). All those AOOs are at full bab, ignore flat footed immunities and proc sneak attack, reach is a non factor as well, the AOO happens regardless of reach when you avoid an enemy aoo.

The second one is purely skill based so it works on many classes (just need high persuasion and trickery and a thug dip). But I've been agonizing which class. I was probably thinking bard to keep with the supportive theme. This one gets free intimidate check at the start of combat that causes frighten, and Dispell checks made with trickery instead of CLs to strip down bosses of all magical defenses. I would go on and pick the rest of the persuasion feats to trigger more saves. Again not sure how persuasion 3 works, because the wording is unclear, but I have read that it triggers on any successful intimidate.

Thug dip is a bit annoying since it insta triggers on combat start, so with it and Persuade 1 you will be chasing after enemies the whole game. Very effective though. It also (used to) trigger when your character isn't there, so when the plot splits your party, which made several battles much easier.

Rowdy also works well with the +crit modifiers and SA stacking for easy access to 2k crits, dunno if they fixed them cleaving across the whole screen with ICF.

There's also a way to get 24h buffs with UMD2, would try that if I were going Trickster again.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Suggestion 1: commission more portraits. Weird how a character as narratively insignificant as your quartermaster has a portrait while others like Zacharius have to go without. And the FemAzata desperately needs a portrait that doesn't make her look like a stageplay extra.

Suggestion 2: replace all those consumable-harvesting spots on the overworld with actual zones and dungeons.

Suggestion 3: nourish the lategame mythics with something, anything more.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Suggestion 1: commission more portraits. Weird how a character as narratively insignificant as your quartermaster has a portrait while others like Zacharius have to go without. And the FemAzata desperately needs a portrait that doesn't make her look like a stageplay extra.

Suggestion 2: replace all those consumable-harvesting spots on the overworld with actual zones and dungeons.

Suggestion 3: nourish the lategame mythics with something, anything more.

Could you please give me your email credentials so I can fill those suggestions for you?

 

[Cyberarmy]

You know what, that's actually a nice survey, if they really treat our answers seriously.

Also I maybe "barrowed" Ghulgothas's suggestions.

 

[Delterius]

I asked for a Trickster tophat.

 

[volklore]

Thug dip is a bit annoying since it insta triggers on combat start, so with it and Persuade 1 you will be chasing after enemies the whole game. Very effective though. It also (used to) trigger when your character isn't there, so when the plot splits your party, which made several battles much easier.

Rowdy also works well with the +crit modifiers and SA stacking for easy access to 2k crits, dunno if they fixed them cleaving across the whole screen with ICF.

I don't really mind the chasing. I was kinda planning to play the thug build with more ranged characters than I usually use. Plus enemies are only frightened 1 round and by midgame there is always a couple of enemies per encounter that are immune to shaken so I can focus on those while the rest is running. Also I play turn based, so with good planning of initiative, I should be able to get a round before they get running.
As far as crit feats I am not really planning around them because Owlcat seems to have disabled respecs on hard and above and I just don't feel like picking them early (and picking them at m6 is too late). The thing I like about trickster is the skill based stuff and adding utility to character around skill checks. Which is why I like the mobility, persuasion and trickery lines (athletics too looks quite cool, although early ranks feel a bit replaceable) because I get to build with skill focus, mythic skill focus, buffs giving skill bonuses and so on, and skill monkey classes that get big bonuses to skills get to build around that for combat. Perception feats are just a little bit more boring for me (except CNS) since it doesn't feel like bending the rule in a weird way as much as the rest of the stuff and in effect just gives you extra damage.
I wish Owlcat designed trickster almost entirely around using skills like making UMD spell DC based on your UMD modifier, making knowledge checks to inspect enemy also debuff them if you beat the DC of the checks by over a certain amount, because as a trickster you understand you can write minuses on the enemy card to make them weaker. It would fit the meta joke theme of the path too. I am assuming a ton of these ideas got brought up when owlcat designed the path but it got complicated to implement. Still kinda sad.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Have they said anywhere how long that Google survey will be open? I was trying to find out but couldn't see anything. I wouldn't mind picking up my pace and trying to see some of the later stuff to more fully answer the questions if possible. If not, I'll just provide feedback for what I have done.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah Greater Enduring Spells is just ridiculous. And it applies to things that aren't even spells, like Mutagen, or Arcanist Exploits. 24H Wooden Flesh, lmao.

One of the shittiest things about Legend is losing access to that, it's painful.

 

[Cryomancer]

I mentioned the pf1e ruleset in what I liked most and what I disliked the most, crusade management.

"Fells too dissociated from gameplay. NWN2 Crossroad keep fort is much better implemented. You build a wizard tower and you can visit it. In Kingmaker and Wrath, seems like the kingdom management is another game."

Ohter thing.

 

[mediocrepoet]

People can say many things about you, Meredoth, but no one could say that you are inconsistent.

I'm pretty happy about everything I've seen so far, tbh. I just wish they had the bugs ironed out more already. I even don't mind the crusade army game thing. It's not great, but it's not awful either. It breaks things up a bit and doesn't detract from the experience.

I don't know, I still have to finish this one and reflect on it, but so far just like with Kingmaker, I'd put Wrath on my GOAT list. Possibly even at the top of it. These games just hit all the things I look for in gaming and I'm certain that most/all of their staff are giant nerds which helps them "get it".