Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Whisper]

Looking for best Throwing axe build for Unfair

(with Weapon finesse, so Dex based)

For throwing axes you can't do much better than mutation fighter, if you want to focus on damage. You can pick weapon training in axes and weapon training in throwing weapons and the bonuses stacks. If you equip gloves of dueling you also get double the bonus. I don't think you can beat that with another class because throwing axes is very feat intense, and since you want to go finesse that's another 2 feats. You will be very starved when it comes to mythic feats though especially since you want to go finesse. There is not much to advice except to go mutation fighter and pick your shooting feats (point-blank shot/master, precise shot, rapid shot), TWF feats, dazzling display + shatter defenses since you're on unfair, your finesse feats, and use the rest of your feats for fighter specific feats to ramp up ab and damage, improved critical, as well as snap shot. I can't say I like finesse that much on TWF throwing axes, you get a lot of mileage from STR buffs in this game especially the ones that increase size and weapon dice.
You can dip one level of sohei for flurry with your weapon training weapon for an extra full BAB attack(i think it does stack with rapid shot).

Straight fighter DW throwing axes can absolutely decimate anything on unfair after a few levels, but it's a class that needs a lot of support. Sosiel or a domain cleric merc with domain zealot to buff his rounds with really high bonuses is something I wouldn't run without. And obviously, you need a good way to get enemies shaken (dirge or a good intimidator) until your casters get frightful aspect.
For mythic path there isn't too many wrong choices there, but neither is there any particular standout. Trickster is good for crit feats and Aeon gets a Bane with dispell on hit and spellbook with decent divine selfbuffs and since fighter is a full BAB class you can take nice advantage from Equal Force. Aeon is hard to fit on anything and I think straight martials like fighters are some of the best fit so I would go for Aeon personally, but Trickster is probably stronger albeit very Feat hungry,

Any dip in other classes or go full 20 MW?

Also, Sohei, i think adds 1 more attack (flurry), this means 2 more attacks since you use 2 weapons in 2 hands or it is 1 more attack?

 

[Whisper]

Also what 2 finesse feats?

Fighter finesse and what is 2nd?

 

[Haplo]

Also, Sohei, i think adds 1 more attack (flurry), this means 2 more attacks since you use 2 weapons in 2 hands or it is 1 more attack?

1 more main hand attack at highest BAB.
Although if you go Sohei 3, you'll be able to use Ki with a swift action to get another bonus attack.

 

[Sharpedge]

Here is some entertaining reddit complaining.

 

[Whisper]

Also, Sohei, i think adds 1 more attack (flurry), this means 2 more attacks since you use 2 weapons in 2 hands or it is 1 more attack?

1 more main hand attack at highest BAB.
Although if you go Sohei 3, you'll be able to use Ki with a swift action to get another bonus attack.

So what level dips to Mutation warrior, which is base class.

1 lvl of Sohei, what else are good?

 

[ArchAngel]

Another "fun" bug introduced in the last patch (alongside fully disabled mounted charge) - triggering an Attack of Opportunity interrupts iterative attacks. Therefore, say, you have 6 attacks, the 1st is a critical (and triggers AoO via Outflank) or causes a Greater Trip - your Full Attack ends with the 1st attack then...

OWLCATS!

I had other fun bugs in TB like when I tell my guy and mount to charge at enemy. Mount discovers a trap to the side on the way there and stops mid charge...

 

[Technomancer]

HOMM V was the pinnacle of the series. With personal Initiative alongside speed (fast units could move like 3 times per 1 move of slow units, like treants... Haste/Slow/Initiative boost/delay sheningans were present and VERY strong), robust hero skill wheels and different hero focus/mechanics depending on race - strongly connected with racial abilities on the units of that race.

Yeah it's true. Tho they probably did lift some ground work stuff from V. At least when prototyping.

 

[Yosharian]

earlvik 38 points 2 hours ago
There was a good GDC talk by Josh Sawyer on how they designed the classes in Pillars 2. Specifically on how to give player more character customization choices, but make them meaningful.

One of the points was, if you give player lots of choices but most of those choices are objectively bad and some of them are basically mandatory, that's not a choice, that's an illusion of choice, which leads to player frustration.

I personally have no issue picking the "mandatory" feats and spells, but I do believe WotR suffers from this problem quite a lot, more than Kingmaker.

 

[Jaedar]

One quick fix for army I would do is make Infirmary per day instead of per battle, it makes clearing maps way too easy and fast. Number of battle per day is limited only by your movement speed as Infirmary makes loses irrelevant.

Personally I'd toss away the infirmary all together (or at least make is your losses have to spend X days resting, and then being rerecruitable from drezen). I'd also remove the cap on how many unit types you can have (it's ridiculous in act 3 when you have 4 or 5 "full" armies of 1-10 units you got from various events).

I'd also redesign the tankyness of a lot of units. Stuff like gargoyles are utterly ridiculous, they deal 0 damage but take dozens of turns to deal with.

 

[Anthedon]

I never zoomed in while playing, but damn, some of the 3D models are pretty damn good.

Spoiler

 

[NJClaw]

One quick fix for army I would do is make Infirmary per day instead of per battle, it makes clearing maps way too easy and fast. Number of battle per day is limited only by your movement speed as Infirmary makes loses irrelevant.

Personally I'd toss away the infirmary all together (or at least make is your losses have to spend X days resting, and then being rerecruitable from drezen). I'd also remove the cap on how many unit types you can have (it's ridiculous in act 3 when you have 4 or 5 "full" armies of 1-10 units you got from various events).

I'd also redesign the tankyness of a lot of units. Stuff like gargoyles are utterly ridiculous, they deal 0 damage but take dozens of turns to deal with.

The crusade minigame is unsalvageable. Nerfing the infirmary would do nothing to improve the experience, it would only make things slower. Everything about it, from the gameplay to the UI, is so utter shit that the only thing that matters is to find a way to deal with it as fast as possible. This is why the only viable strategy is to recruit a mage general and spam Scorching Ray/Fireball/Fire Storm every single encounter. Applying all the changes you proposed wouldn't change anything: you would still be going through boring fights with no strategical depth while navigating an interfaced clearly designed to be as obnoxious as possible.

One quick fix for army I would do is make Infirmary per day instead of per battle, it makes clearing maps way too easy and fast. Number of battle per day is limited only by your movement speed as Infirmary makes loses irrelevant.

But what's the point? The minigame itself makes losses irrelevant. Your fix would only force the player to click the "skip day" button more times. It's not like anything prevents you from skipping a day after every single encounter.

 

[lametta]

Another "fun" bug introduced in the last patch (alongside fully disabled mounted charge) - triggering an Attack of Opportunity interrupts iterative attacks. Therefore, say, you have 6 attacks, the 1st is a critical (and triggers AoO via Outflank) or causes a Greater Trip - your Full Attack ends with the 1st attack then...

OWLCATS!

wanted to buy ths with the steam autumn sale but guess its too early?
Gotta wait 6 month like with kingmaker?

btw whats with the season pass and the non existing dlcs?!

 

[Sharpedge]

earlvik 38 points 2 hours ago
There was a good GDC talk by Josh Sawyer on how they designed the classes in Pillars 2. Specifically on how to give player more character customization choices, but make them meaningful.

One of the points was, if you give player lots of choices but most of those choices are objectively bad and some of them are basically mandatory, that's not a choice, that's an illusion of choice, which leads to player frustration.

I personally have no issue picking the "mandatory" feats and spells, but I do believe WotR suffers from this problem quite a lot, more than Kingmaker.

I liked this 1 even more.

[–]Chairchucker [score hidden] 51 minutes ago
I shouldn't have to do a single one of those on normal difficulty. I shouldn't be forced to play in any specific way. That's bad game design.

"I want to be able to win combat by throwing darts at a dartboard and going with the outcome. If the game doesn't let me do that its bad game design."

 

[ArchAngel]

One quick fix for army I would do is make Infirmary per day instead of per battle, it makes clearing maps way too easy and fast. Number of battle per day is limited only by your movement speed as Infirmary makes loses irrelevant.

Personally I'd toss away the infirmary all together (or at least make is your losses have to spend X days resting, and then being rerecruitable from drezen). I'd also remove the cap on how many unit types you can have (it's ridiculous in act 3 when you have 4 or 5 "full" armies of 1-10 units you got from various events).

I'd also redesign the tankyness of a lot of units. Stuff like gargoyles are utterly ridiculous, they deal 0 damage but take dozens of turns to deal with.

The crusade minigame is unsalvageable. Nerfing the infirmary would do nothing to improve the experience, it would only make things slower. Everything about it, from the gameplay to the UI, is so utter shit that the only thing that matters is to find a way to deal with it as fast as possible. This is why the only viable strategy is to recruit a mage general and spam Scorching Ray/Fireball/Fire Storm every single encounter. Applying all the changes you proposed wouldn't change anything: you would still be going through boring fights with no strategical depth while navigating an interfaced clearly designed to be as obnoxious as possible.

One quick fix for army I would do is make Infirmary per day instead of per battle, it makes clearing maps way too easy and fast. Number of battle per day is limited only by your movement speed as Infirmary makes loses irrelevant.

But what's the point? The minigame itself makes losses irrelevant. Your fix would only force the player to click the "skip day" button more times.

They made UI nicer in latest patches, also battles seem to be more balanced.

 

[RNGsus]

Another "fun" bug introduced in the last patch (alongside fully disabled mounted charge) - triggering an Attack of Opportunity interrupts iterative attacks. Therefore, say, you have 6 attacks, the 1st is a critical (and triggers AoO via Outflank) or causes a Greater Trip - your Full Attack ends with the 1st attack then...

OWLCATS!

wanted to buy ths with the steam autumn sale but guess its too early?
Gotta wait 6 month like with kingmaker?

btw whats with the season pass and the non existing dlcs?!

You have to wait at least until they are ported to consoles for the most stable version of game. The release of kingmaker worked fine, then I got bsod and had to find a solution months later. With wotr, it just bsod day one, and now I'm waiting until then to try again.

 

[NJClaw]

They made UI nicer in latest patches, also battles seem to be more balanced.

I'm still playing the game and the crusade minigame UI is nowhere near "usable by a human being" levels. The thing I dread the most about the entire game is having to move around the map troops I just recruited to reinforce my armies.

Also what's balanced about battles? There's no reason at all to play the minigame the way Owlcat intended to, namely using various combinations of different units to tackle different encounters. As of now, you have two choices: (1) relying on your army, which means you'll have to spend 10 minutes clearing every fight while you watch your guys slowly whittling down the enemies' insane health pools, or (2) relying on your general's spells while your single unkillable stack of 600 dwarves gets tickled by demons. Why would you choose the first option? It's not even fun, since the enemy can't physically win unless you willingly decide to send a weak army to the slaughter.

I guess there's also a third option: having an absurdly overpowered army and delete all the enemies' troops in a single round with 1k archers. But again, what's fun about it?

 

[LannTheStupid]

Stuff like gargoyles are utterly ridiculous, they deal 0 damage but take dozens of turns to deal with.

This is how gargoyles were, like, since HoMM-2. It's their iconic feature, so to speak.

 

[NJClaw]

Stuff like gargoyles are utterly ridiculous, they deal 0 damage but take dozens of turns to deal with.

This is how gragoyles were, like, since HoMM-2. It's their iconic feature, so to speak.

I think I can safely say that I've spent more time killing gargoyles in a single encounter in WotR than in my entire experience with HoMM3. And I've spent tens of thousands of hours on that game.

 

[Delterius]

time to make a mod that just boots homm5 everytime you do crusading

 

[ArchAngel]

They made UI nicer in latest patches, also battles seem to be more balanced.

I'm still playing the game and the crusade minigame UI is nowhere near "usable by a human being" levels. The thing I dread the most about the entire game is having to move around the map troops I just recruited to reinforce my armies.

Also what's balanced about battles? There's no reason at all to play the minigame the way Owlcat intended to, namely using various combinations of different units to tackle different encounters. As of now, you have two choices: (1) relying on your army, which means you'll have to spend 10 minutes clearing every fight while you watch your guys slowly whittling down the enemies' insane health pools, or (2) relying on your general's spells while your single unkillable stack of 600 dwarves gets tickled by demons. Why would you choose the first option? It's not even fun, since the enemy can't physically win unless you willingly decide to send a weak army to the slaughter.

I guess there's also a third option: having an absurdly overpowered army and delete all the enemies' troops in a single round with 1k archers. But again, what's fun about it?

I just use troops with most damage AND use offensive spells, at least until I decide I don't want to waste more mana. Waiting for mana to recover is slowest thing in the game.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Here is some entertaining reddit complaining.

And the first person who mentioned reading had been downvoted below the threshold.

 

[Yosharian]

earlvik 38 points 2 hours ago
There was a good GDC talk by Josh Sawyer on how they designed the classes in Pillars 2. Specifically on how to give player more character customization choices, but make them meaningful.

One of the points was, if you give player lots of choices but most of those choices are objectively bad and some of them are basically mandatory, that's not a choice, that's an illusion of choice, which leads to player frustration.

I personally have no issue picking the "mandatory" feats and spells, but I do believe WotR suffers from this problem quite a lot, more than Kingmaker.

I liked this 1 even more.

[–]Chairchucker [score hidden] 51 minutes ago
I shouldn't have to do a single one of those on normal difficulty. I shouldn't be forced to play in any specific way. That's bad game design.

"I want to be able to win combat by throwing darts at a dartboard and going with the outcome. If the game doesn't let me do that its bad game design."

I honestly find it hard to believe that guy isn't trolling.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I want to be able to win combat by throwing darts at a dartboard and going with the outcome. If the game doesn't let me do that its bad game design.

Throwing darts is kinda fungible as far as combat is concerned though.

 

[Cryomancer]

Why throwing darts when you can use magic?

 

[ArchAngel]

Why throwing darts when you can use magic?

Yes, Arcane Strike gives us bonus damage when throwing darts. And Haste lets us throw one more dart.