Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Haplo]

Imagine unironically liking Camellia

I really like her build. She is indeed... very useful, is she not?

Not that my angel let her survive Act 3.

 

[Lagole Gon]

I had no idea what to do with her at first, but Camellia is the most fun character build-wise.

Also, she's fun in that "I wonder how far this ride can go" kind of way.

 

[ga♥]

My angel kept her alive because she is too useful... :\ (also the devs must have known since the choices during chapter 3 in her quest are not tagged by alignment)

 

[volklore]

Guarded Hearth is the best buff in the game. Pick community domain.

Guarded Hearth is almost mandatory in this game imo. It's just insanly good , too bad you have to go with Lann or Sosiel to get it if you don't create a mercenary/mod respec someone

I don't even like guarded hearth that much. I prefer stuff that's not 1/day and that I can make value out of every encounter : nobility, madness, good, luck domains all have great abilities that synergizes amazingly with domain zealot. Guarded hearth is the cherry on top if you really need that extra boost. But on my hard playthrough I always forgot to pop it and never really needed it, as I was more content to buff a single character with single target domains like madness and good to setup 1 big carry character (like regill, the dwarf)

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Imagine unironically liking Camellia

I only let her live in my demon playthought because she was my tank and that was before i learned that Animal companions are busted.

 

[Whisper]

Guarded Hearth is almost mandatory in this game imo.

One day you will discover Madness domain.

 

[Whisper]

You forgot your main char. Everyone doing an angel oracle, but an angel cleric is just as good (you don't really need guarded heart as angel tough considering how broken it is right now), or an inquisitor aeon.

Inquisitor build for Aeon is viable on Unfair?

 

[Whisper]

Girl is a rogue, a tank

Camellia is a tank?
Someone play on Normal.

 

[Haplo]

On Hard she was a great tank in acts 2-3 - until she... umm... passed away.

 

[Thonius]

In tougher fights my horse became a bit of a liability since it was often subject to focus firing by Babaus and enlarged Glabrezus. Once it dropped, I might as well have restarted everytime because I would usually get AOO'd to death trying to get up from lying prone.

Currently running my Deliverer with a Vital Strike build. Pretty good so far but I only just got that feat.

Also low will saves on charm etc. Getting prone and then mauled by your own horsie is aint fun!

 

[Whisper]

Some calculations I was doing in Discord:

Maximum CHA:
22 base (Half-Elf)
+10 Level ups
+4 Legend
+8 Cognatogen
+6 Bracers
+6 Allied Court Poet
+2 Inherent
+6 Profane Ascension (Nocticula)
+4 Taco buff
+10 Touch of Glory
= 78 CHA

I can't think of any more (aside from allied 20 BFT giving +8 enhancement)

That's +34 DC just from CHA

(Edit: added a couple more things, corrected mistakes)

For +8 Cognatogen you want deep too much in alchemist.
+6 Profane messes with story.

Touch of Glory adds +10 Cha? For how long?

 

[volklore]

Touch of Glory is a bug though. It shouldn't buff cha, just cha based skill checks and ability checks.

 

[ga♥]

Girl is a rogue, a tank

Camellia is a tank?
Someone play on Normal.

What do you mean? She can into 90 AC, without even multiclassing her, just pure spirit shaman. Ok that's not the 500 AC on a Yosharian build but still pretty tanky...?

 

[Humbaba]

I don't find Camellia useful at all. For tanking there's Regill with his adamantine armor, for sneak attack damage there's Greybor, for hexes there's Ember. Is there anything she does that isn't already covered by someone else?

 

[ArchAngel]

Imagine unironically liking Camellia

I only let her live in my demon playthought because she was my tank and that was before i learned that Animal companions are busted.

If you pick up Nature Spirit with her at lvl 16 she also gets animal companion so she can be even more busted :D

 

[ga♥]

I don't find Camellia useful at all. For tanking there's Regill with his adamantine armor, for sneak attack damage there's Greybor, for hexes there's Ember. Is there anything she does that isn't already covered by someone else?

what build did you use on regil to have him be better than camelia at tanking?
edit: i see you mention heavy armor, oh lawd.

 

[ArchAngel]

I don't find Camellia useful at all. For tanking there's Regill with his adamantine armor, for sneak attack damage there's Greybor, for hexes there's Ember. Is there anything she does that isn't already covered by someone else?

Greybor is worst companion in the game. He is crap at damage, tanking or surviving. If you want sneak attack you are better with Wolfjit, he can actually tank with defensive spells and he has good buffs for himself and the party.
Camelia is not a drain on other's resources, she buff herself and others and she can be the party rogue for traps and shit. And if you build her well, she does decent damage as well while being able to heal herself once per combat as a swift action (or more if you got quicken rods). And she can have an animal companion that makes her 2x as deadly. Greybor is completely dependant on others in party and even then he is kind of crap.

EDIT: What chapter are you playing, start of Act 3? If you are using Hexes with Ember on anything but enemies with very high SR you are doing it wrong lol. Ember is way more useful as fire or lightning caster.

 

[Humbaba]

what build did you use on regil to have him be better than camelia at tanking?

I just give him a bunch of AC boosting items and Last Stand and heal him continuously. I'm sure you can get Camellia to a million AC with buffs and whatever but tbh tanking is huge meme. The encounter and enemy design heavily incentivises first strike capabilities and burst damage.

Greybor is worst companion in the game. He is crap at damage, tanking or surviving. If you want sneak attack you are better with Wolfjit, he can actually tank with defensive spells and he has good buffs for himself and the party.
Camelia is not a drain on other's resources, she buff herself and others and she can be the party rogue for traps and shit. And if you build her well, she does decent damage as well while being able to heal herself once per combat as a swift action (or more if you got quicken rods). And she can have an animal companion that makes her 2x as deadly. Greybor is completely dependant on others in party and even then he is kind of crap.

Idk I like Greybor strength draining the opposition.

 

[ArchAngel]

BTW, in my current run my party is now: My blight elf fighter/demonslayer with 2 scimitars and a panther (that I found I can cannot ride as it only becomes Medium and Animal Growth does not make larger ), then there is Camelia as primary tank, Sosiel on his Horse companion as 2nd tank swinging his Glaive and buffing and in the back I got Wenduag bringing the pain from the surprise round, Ember as primary DPS caster and support healer and Nenio in a bit different role. This time I didn't focus into rays and evocation alongside Illusion but decided to skip point blank and precise shot and go into Illusion and Transmutation. End game play is to have Heightened Baleful Polymorphs to turn tough enemies into dogs to make them useless while Illusion is for CC.

 

[ArchAngel]

what build did you use on regil to have him be better than camelia at tanking?

I just give him a bunch of AC boosting items and Last Stand and heal him continuously. I'm sure you can get Camellia to a million AC with buffs and whatever but tbh tanking is huge meme. The encounter and enemy design heavily incentivises first strike capabilities and burst damage.

Greybor is worst companion in the game. He is crap at damage, tanking or surviving. If you want sneak attack you are better with Wolfjit, he can actually tank with defensive spells and he has good buffs for himself and the party.
Camelia is not a drain on other's resources, she buff herself and others and she can be the party rogue for traps and shit. And if you build her well, she does decent damage as well while being able to heal herself once per combat as a swift action (or more if you got quicken rods). And she can have an animal companion that makes her 2x as deadly. Greybor is completely dependant on others in party and even then he is kind of crap.

Idk I like Greybor strength draining the opposition.

Camelia has better AC and lots of super useful buffs that Regill does not have. Her saves are better and she can make herself immune to most things. She can buff her weapon and heal and cast resists. Regill does do more damage, he is actually better as dps, he is better than Greybor at it.
Wolfjit can also drain strength which is btw mostly useless, you are better at using drain Constitution ability. Wolfjit can buff himself so he is also a decent tank, he does more base damage than Greybor and has same sneak attack and also get Debilitating sneaks attacks that Greybor does not have which both reduces enemy AC and attacks for him and whole party.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Imagine killing Camellia for killing commoners while you are trying to kill the nobility of the Abyss. Are you freaking proles or what?

 

[Jaedar]

Camellia has high trickery, 9 levels of divine spells, is decent at attacking and surviving and has hexes. Imo none of the other companions offer even close to the amount of versatility as she does. There are better companions for dealing damage, or tanking, and ember is technically a better hexer. Maybe sosiel is a better divine caster (but iirc he can't get divine vestment and barkskin, so not really). But she really is going to be incredibly useful to most parties. On my lich playthrough, she's the only character I never considered dropping from the party.

 

[ArchAngel]

Camellia has high trickery, 9 levels of divine spells, is decent at attacking and surviving and has hexes. Imo none of the other companions offer even close to the amount of versatility as she does. There are better companions for dealing damage, or tanking, and ember is technically a better hexer. Maybe sosiel is a better divine caster (but iirc he can't get divine vestment and barkskin, so not really). But she really is going to be incredibly useful to most parties. On my lich playthrough, she's the only character I never considered dropping from the party.

Succubus ranger is only other Barkskin caster. Sosiel can get barkskin if you get Impossible Domain for him but I rather choose to get him a companion so he can do full attacks even when moving. Sosiel does get Magic Vestment and as a full spell, not only in domain slots.
I only dropped her in my Angel run because I decided to bring succubus lady instead to cast barkskins. It is hard to kick her out otherwise.

 

[Humbaba]

Camelia has better AC and lots of super useful buffs that Regill does not have. Her saves are better and she can make herself immune to most things. She can buff her weapon and heal and cast resists. Regill does do more damage, he is actually better as dps, he is better than Greybor at it.
Wolfjit can also drain strength which is btw mostly useless, you are better at using drain Constitution ability. Wolfjit can buff himself so he is also a decent tank, he does more base damage than Greybor and has same sneak attack and also get Debilitating sneaks attacks that Greybor does not have which both reduces enemy AC and attacks for him and whole party.

I wouldn't say any kind of stat drain is useless, it's free debuffs that come with doing what you would've been doing anyway. Unlike Camellia, Regill is nowhere near as resource dependent and resource burn is low key a highly important metric. Hellknights get Triumph Force of Will which permanently buffs Reg's saves against fear, compulsion or charm. Fear effects become a non-issue with Remove Fear anyway. Camellia's got more tricks up her sleeve sure but then again self-sufficiency and versatility are overrated qualities in a party based system, which is why I'm not too fond of hybrid classes.

I would question the claim that Greybor does little damage, I have so far noticed no significant deficit in that area. Using Woljif's spell slots for all the buffs he needs to become melee viable is a huge waste if you ask me, nevermind the fact that he is only proficient with simple weapons unless you waste a level to give him martial weapon proficiency. Much like Camellia, Woljif is a lot more resource intensive than Greybor. Slayer not getting debilitating sneak attack is a bit of a bummer I'll admit but there are enough other abilities that lower enemy AC and in exchange he gets Studied Target and Quarry. I would rate Slayer higher than Rogue in general. He can't pick locks, but that's what ArushaBAE is for.

 

[ArchAngel]

Camelia has better AC and lots of super useful buffs that Regill does not have. Her saves are better and she can make herself immune to most things. She can buff her weapon and heal and cast resists. Regill does do more damage, he is actually better as dps, he is better than Greybor at it.
Wolfjit can also drain strength which is btw mostly useless, you are better at using drain Constitution ability. Wolfjit can buff himself so he is also a decent tank, he does more base damage than Greybor and has same sneak attack and also get Debilitating sneaks attacks that Greybor does not have which both reduces enemy AC and attacks for him and whole party.

I wouldn't say any kind of stat drain is useless, it's free debuffs that come with doing what you would've been doing anyway. Unlike Camellia, Regill is nowhere near as resource dependent and resource burn is low key a highly important metric. Hellknights get Triumph Force of Will which permanently buffs Reg's saves against fear, compulsion or charm. Fear effects become a non-issue with Remove Fear anyway. Camellia's got more tricks up her sleeve sure but then again self-sufficiency and versatility are overrated qualities in a party based system, which is why I'm not too fond of hybrid classes.

I would question the claim that Greybor does little damage, I have so far noticed no significant deficit in that area. Using Woljif's spell slots for all the buffs he needs to become melee viable is a huge waste if you ask me, nevermind the fact that he is only proficient with simple weapons unless you waste a level to give him martial weapon proficiency. Much like Camellia, Woljif is a lot more resource intensive than Greybor. Slayer not getting debilitating sneak attack is a bit of a bummer I'll admit but there are enough other abilities that lower enemy AC and in exchange he gets Studied Target and Quarry. I would rate Slayer higher than Rogue in general. He can't pick locks, but that's what ArushaBAE is for.

All non casters are resource dependent but from other characters. Non casters neither buff themselves of heal themselves. Let that Regill do it all by his class abilities and potions and see how far you will get lol. Unless you are playing under Core, you can finish the game naked on that difficulty.