NWN People who like NWN remind me why I bullied some people in school

[NJClaw]

JarlFrank this thread is getting too NWN-friendly, please do something about it.

 

[JarlFrank]

takes a deep breath

While NWN's mod support is great, the underlying systems are so horrendous that even legitimately good modules are a chore to play.

- everything is slow as fuck: even resting has a countdown bar that makes you wait a couple seconds rather than BG's "click rest, screen fades to black, you either wake up fully healed or with monsters spawning in to interrupt rest"; there's also no enemies interrupting your rest, so there's not even a mechanical reason for having to wait so long
- same slowness applies to pretty much every action in the game, including lockpicking and trap disarming, which makes thief-focused modules like A Dance With Rogues (which I love despite the absolute shit-tier engine it's attached to) a chore to play
- combat is also slow (one action every six seconds) and you only control one character... in a D&D game... which is a system intended for parties of multiple characters; playing a fighter is extremely boring because all you do is watch slooooow attacks while chugging a potion occasionally, playing a wizard is too dangerous because you end up getting swarmed by melee enemies and have no meatshield to keep them off you
- while it's a single char game, you can hire companions... which are fully AI controlled and will get themselves killed over and over, making it an exercise in frustration; in one of the Swordflight modules I had 3 companions; a crossbow girl who kept using her crossbow in melee range, triggering attacks of opportunity; two spellcasters who used their high level spells in easy trash encounters, in a dungeon you can't rest in, so they became useless in the actual difficult fights
- the graphics are ugly, but that's not the worst part of the visuals: the proportions are way out of scale, due to the tileset being too huge; everything feels too large, especially indoor spaces, and coupled with the slow walking speed it means that traversing maps - especially larger ones - takes a very long time

It's shit and boring, one of the worst RPGs ever made, not just because the OC sucks but because its systems are inherently terrible.

 

[Orud]

takes a deep breath

While NWN's mod support is great, the underlying systems are so horrendous that even legitimately good modules are a chore to play.

- everything is slow as fuck: even resting has a countdown bar that makes you wait a couple seconds rather than BG's "click rest, screen fades to black, you either wake up fully healed or with monsters spawning in to interrupt rest"; there's also no enemies interrupting your rest, so there's not even a mechanical reason for having to wait so long
- same slowness applies to pretty much every action in the game, including lockpicking and trap disarming, which makes thief-focused modules like A Dance With Rogues (which I love despite the absolute shit-tier engine it's attached to) a chore to play
- combat is also slow (one action every six seconds) and you only control one character... in a D&D game... which is a system intended for parties of multiple characters; playing a fighter is extremely boring because all you do is watch slooooow attacks while chugging a potion occasionally, playing a wizard is too dangerous because you end up getting swarmed by melee enemies and have no meatshield to keep them off you
- while it's a single char game, you can hire companions... which are fully AI controlled and will get themselves killed over and over, making it an exercise in frustration; in one of the Swordflight modules I had 3 companions; a crossbow girl who kept using her crossbow in melee range, triggering attacks of opportunity; two spellcasters who used their high level spells in easy trash encounters, in a dungeon you can't rest in, so they became useless in the actual difficult fights
- the graphics are ugly, but that's not the worst part of the visuals: the proportions are way out of scale, due to the tileset being too huge; everything feels too large, especially indoor spaces, and coupled with the slow walking speed it means that traversing maps - especially larger ones - takes a very long time

It's shit and boring, one of the worst RPGs ever made, not just because the OC sucks but because its systems are inherently terrible.

So it was you?! 11 years after "road to shit mountain" was released, and on the codex of all places, I've finally found whoever gave Bioware the shitty 'button = awesome' idea.

 

[Gargaune]

@JarlFrank this thread is getting too NWN-friendly, please do something about it.

takes a deep breath

garble garble I have no taste in cRPGs or female anatomy garble garble

Oh no, you don't! Deploying countermeasures:

Off with you, footlicker, this is NWN turf now!

 

[JarlFrank]

@JarlFrank this thread is getting too NWN-friendly, please do something about it.

takes a deep breath

garble garble I have no taste in cRPGs or female anatomy garble garble

Oh no, you don't! Deploying countermeasures:

Off with you, footlicker, this is NWN turf now!

applies scissors of sock-cutting +1

Your evil magics cannot repel me!

NWN will always and forever be one of the worst RPGs in history.

 

[Volourn]

All that spam, and NWN is still ubdisputably the best RPG of all time. Trying to argue against this fact just proves your retartetness.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

takes a deep breath

While NWN's mod support is great, the underlying systems are so horrendous that even legitimately good modules are a chore to play.

- everything is slow as fuck: even resting has a countdown bar that makes you wait a couple seconds rather than BG's "click rest, screen fades to black, you either wake up fully healed or with monsters spawning in to interrupt rest"; there's also no enemies interrupting your rest, so there's not even a mechanical reason for having to wait so long
- same slowness applies to pretty much every action in the game, including lockpicking and trap disarming, which makes thief-focused modules like A Dance With Rogues (which I love despite the absolute shit-tier engine it's attached to) a chore to play
- combat is also slow (one action every six seconds) and you only control one character... in a D&D game... which is a system intended for parties of multiple characters; playing a fighter is extremely boring because all you do is watch slooooow attacks while chugging a potion occasionally, playing a wizard is too dangerous because you end up getting swarmed by melee enemies and have no meatshield to keep them off you
- while it's a single char game, you can hire companions... which are fully AI controlled and will get themselves killed over and over, making it an exercise in frustration; in one of the Swordflight modules I had 3 companions; a crossbow girl who kept using her crossbow in melee range, triggering attacks of opportunity; two spellcasters who used their high level spells in easy trash encounters, in a dungeon you can't rest in, so they became useless in the actual difficult fights
- the graphics are ugly, but that's not the worst part of the visuals: the proportions are way out of scale, due to the tileset being too huge; everything feels too large, especially indoor spaces, and coupled with the slow walking speed it means that traversing maps - especially larger ones - takes a very long time

It's shit and boring, one of the worst RPGs ever made, not just because the OC sucks but because its systems are inherently terrible.

So it was you?! 11 years after "road to shit mountain" was released, and on the codex of all places, I've finally found whoever gave Bioware the shitty 'button = awesome' idea.

Well, based on the "everything is so slooow" remarks, you might say that. (Plus his analysis of BG2's superiority in map design, with EVERYTHING in this game existing not for ever merely existing as a place, but to always feed bits of plot, quest, points of always mucho interest, NPC, combat, loot and no-downtimes ever is basically Amusement Park Game World: The Western RPG's Blueprint for all eternity, which BG3 seems to follow in its Larian kinda way just as well).

Doesn't seem to be a particularly patient type of guy (but that's ok -- in the making o f KCD the devs acknowledged much the same in that designing their world as an actual sorta place may alienate some. "Lots of woods -- looks pretty, but boooaaaring!").

Right on the money on NWN's art though. It was pretty dire even back then. Even acknowledging the challenge to develop for such an open tile-based type of format.

 

[JarlFrank]

Doesn't seem to be a particularly patient type of guy (but that's ok -- in the making o f KCD the devs acknowledged much the same in that designing their world as an actual sorta place may alienate some. "Lots of woods -- looks pretty, but boooaaaring!").

I love Morrowind though and KCD is great too.

The problem with NWN is, there is no reason for the slowness and it doesn't add anything to the (non-existent) atmosphere or gameplay.
In Morrowind and KCD you walk through a fully realized 3D world and can explore every nook and cranny, while combat itself is relatively fast and not a long tedious slog. Things like lockpicking and resting also don't make you stare at a slowly filling progress bar.

I like slow games if there's a payoff for your patience. There is no payoff for anything in NWN because the game is fucking shit. Not a single aspect of it feels good or rewarding.

 

[Orud]

To me NWN only feels slow the first 5 levels, on most classes, because you have a low amount of attacks per round or little spells. The sweet spot, just like most 3E games, is between lvl 10-12.

 

[underground nymph]

The problem with NWN is, there is no reason for the slowness and it doesn't add anything to the (non-existent) atmosphere or gameplay.

I dunno. I enjoyed watching two melee fencing, waiting for a hit roll to land. High level melee was much faster with lots of AoOs+feats. High level two-handed melee were landing hits like madmen.

 

[Sarathiour]

NWN feel slow because your character move with the grace of a truck, and having a party of two people max will inevitably drag the combat at low level.

 

[Volourn]

Fukkin retarts on this thread. NWN's graphics were also, the gameplay was awesome, it was awesome. BESTEST EVAR PERIOD.

 

[Delterius]

To me NWN only feels slow the first 5 levels, on most classes, because you have a low amount of attacks per round or little spells. The sweet spot, just like most 3E games, is between lvl 10-12.

its not slow because combat takes too long to be resolved

its slow because your controls, animations and movement are all jank

the tech itself is terrible

 

[Zeriel]

To me NWN only feels slow the first 5 levels, on most classes, because you have a low amount of attacks per round or little spells. The sweet spot, just like most 3E games, is between lvl 10-12.

The thing is "slow, 6 second rounds of waiting" works alright in Infinity Engine where you are playing with a full party you are managing, when you have only one character, waiting and watching gets a lot more intolerable.

Pillars learned the wrong lessons from this and tried to do full party control with a combat system designed around MMO-style "press a button every second" class/skill design. DA:O also did this.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

It's okay to hate on the OC but as for the expansions and the better user-created modules, fuck off. That shit's gud. Speaking of the OC, I'm surpised some hardcore DnD sperg module author didn't "remake/remaster" it into having more elaborate C&C and skillchecks. But then again, a few Hall of Fame modules are actually considered canon sequels so maybe that's enough.

 

[Delterius]

better user-created modules

Oh yeah I sure wanna suffer through combat and movement in the nwn engine just so I can read some modder's writing.

 

[Darth Roxor]

it blows my mind that someone could like nwn1

i knew it sucks even back when i thought oblivion was ok

 

[Shadenuat]

- everything is slow as fuck: even resting has a countdown bar that makes you wait a couple seconds rather than BG's "click rest, screen fades to black, you either wake up fully healed or with monsters spawning in to interrupt rest"; there's also no enemies interrupting your rest, so there's not even a mechanical reason for having to wait so long
- same slowness applies to pretty much every action in the game, including lockpicking and trap disarming, which makes thief-focused modules like A Dance With Rogues (which I love despite the absolute shit-tier engine it's attached to) a chore to play

I fixed this without even knowing coding, it was v easy.
Rest is simply a script on button click. So you can turn animation off and change time it takes I think.
Lockpicking, I even fixed the mechanic of it, replacing d20 roll with fixed check.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Only worthwhile NWN (1&2) content is MotB (and perhaps some fan modules that I'm not aware of).

 

[Dodo1610]

I really hope the NWN fanboys will one day get the therapy they need.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I really hope the NWN fanboys will one day get the therapy they need.

They should hire Perkel as a physical therapist to treat them with traditional cures))

 

[NJClaw]

People who are in love with NWN really weird me out. They're like the furries of this community.

 

[Poseidon00]

I agree with every criticism of NWN but somehow I like it anyway. There was something unique about its semi-real-time battle system I would want to see redone. In theory they could do it better nowadays, but, well, you know.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Is it just me or did codex recently have an influx of nwn defenders

Is this you, God. Are you testing our faith

Remember the influx of Bioware fans and Baldur's Gate players who came to decline this place around a decade ago? Well, now it's your time to suffer.

 

[Stoned Ape]

People who are in love with NWN really weird me out. They're like the furries of this community.

I think they're closer to those extreme masochists who enjoy nailing their genitals to wooden boards.

I can't imagine how anyone derives pleasure from either activity but each to their own, I guess?