Phantasie series

[Francois424]

My takeaway on Phantasie II is that you need an absolute crapton of HPs. You also need spells.
So last time I played it, I made sure I had 2 Rangers, 3 Priests, and a Thief.

Pretty sure both Rangers were Dwarven, maximized STR and CON, with high DEX too (ie: above 15) so they could wear the best armors(STR) and use the best weapon(STR*2 + DEX). Why Rangers? Healing IV. Yes, Rangers will eventually learn Healing IV (provided you dont waste your spell learning points, these guys didn't have good Intelligence so had to be picky).
Priests, you can make them any race you want... Same deal as above, as much CON as possible but need lots of INT (this is very important)... It made creating these guys uber-annoying, I think I went with one of each Gnome(or was it Halfling?), Human and Elf. Why Priests? Well beside the Healing IV, they can also cast Fiireflash IV... Yep that's absolutely right, FIREFLASH IV.
The Thief I made a Gnoll. Gnolls are THE constitution race in Phantasie I/II (CON is bugged in P3, unfortunately). So same as above... STR, DEX, CON (of course)... And INT. I got shafted in my playthru because you have these reward spells (Divine I/II) which will REMOVE learning spell points for your characters. So I could not learn... ... ... FIREFLASH IV ! (Yup Thieves can learn this too).
Just make sure you give your Gnoll as much Intelligence as possible and don't learn any spells (except maybe sleep) until you see and learn Fireflash IV. I'd argue not learn any spells AT ALL until Fireflash IV... Or don't do the quests that gives you extra spells until you learn it. That means grind over quests; thankfully XP is pretty easy to come by in the later dungeons, if you survive them.

I called this my "Perfect Party" and it took about 5-6 HOURS (!!!) to roll (oh how I missed Baldur's Gate II point system with the save/recall feature). And it blew thru almost everything the game could throw at me.
Stock-up on Magic Potions too, with this group the more you have, the more staying power you have.

FYI I played the AtariST version, Good Luck.
-- Enlightenment Dragon

(EDIT: I did transfer them from Phantasie I, because thanks to those pools I had one of my priests with like 23INT, I think it was my elven chick -- however some aged, I think the Gnoll did, so I recreated anew in Phantasie 2 afterwards... such a waste of time this was. If I'd do it again I'd make all three priests ELVES so no age issues, and recreate the Gnoll/Thief in P2)

 

[DaveO]

I decided to chance exploring the Underworld a bit, and then when I returned I found and dispatched the first of Pluto's beasts which for me was the constrictor. I promptly returned to Saxlingham, gave the first beast amulet to my fighter and my wizards got a spell point increase when resting. I'll make my best effort regardless of how handicapped I may be with my party. Given how time quickly accumulates when exploring outside, I'll likely stick to repeated dungeon excursions. Even with Dwarves, Gnomes, and Elves in my party I want to make my best efforts to not have aging be an issue. I know that my hunt for more beasts will take time and even those repeat dungeon delvings will eventually have diminishing returns. Thanks for the tip to not learn the Divine spells. I know the next place where I can get another one, but it would be far better to avoid locking myself out of any spells even if that means my group would have to be pretty high level(13 at minimum) before I decided to get the next Divine spell. I already have Divine I from transferring the Phantasie I party.

 

[DaveO]

I looked over the manual and there is no way in Phantasie I that you can complete without either a monk or wizard in the party. Given how the monk gets spells at almost the same time as the wizard, I can't really see much advantage to the wizard and a monk only takes two shares of experience versus three for a wizard. As a backup plan, I am developing a new P1-P3 party on Apple emulation since the reset tools mentioned on a few pages back work. And I can still transfer P1 to P2 and P1 to P3 using Apple. I'll still attempt to complete P2 with my ST party.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Still hoping for other reset tools for other platforms. (Fingers crossed)

 

[Francois424]

Given how the monk gets spells at almost the same time as the wizard

Actually Monks learn Transportation earlier. So get one to like level 3, learn transportation, use it, get what you want from that town, and transport back.
You can do 2 trips and bring your entire party without wasting time. Use monk to get back to the mainland later.
But yeah you need one as much as you need a Minotaur. Only for a brief moment ;-)

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

You have to enter the town first to use as. Waypoint, right? At least that's how I remember it.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

.....yeah you need one as much as you need a Minotaur. Only for a brief moment ;-)

 

[DaveO]

I keep forgetting that you can make and train other members. It just goes to show that there are many possibilities for both parties and characters.

 

[Francois424]

You have to enter the town first to use as. Waypoint, right? At least that's how I remember it.

As far as I know you cast "Transportation" in any town and you'll get a list of where you wanna go, including the hidden town.
Then it teleports the whole party over there without wasting 2 months or w/e the usual delay is.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Hmmm... not how I remember the c64 version.

 

[DaveO]

The randomization really detracts from the gameplay. Hit points, spells, magic increases are all random. The game could generate one hit point characters(at least on my ST version). In regards to the Transportation spell, Francois424 is correct in that you have to cast it in town. Having only delved perhaps a quarter of the way into P2, I have to agree that hit points are a premium. I know the limb removal challenges of Phantasie III. Each game in the series has its own challenges, although the steeper challenges are in both P2 and P3. Overall, the game acts like other SSI entries that allow transferred parties. An imported party is generally stronger, starts with basic armor and weapons, but you are not forced to play that way. And as Francois424 has shown, don't be afraid to think outside the box.

 

[Francois424]

Phantasie 3 has it's perks too. On the ST version cou can sometime resurrect someone with the Healing4 spell, depending what killed the character. And you can turn a level 2 priest into a level 20 undead priests and learn Healing4 and other goodies right away without waiting for a level 5-7 priest in your party.
But constitution only gives penalties from 9- but no bonuses from 11+. In all my games a 20con character of class X has same HPs at level 15 than another character with say, 13 con. Makes a tough game even more challenging, thankfully it's still manageable and there are absolutely awesome spots to farm gold/xp once you reach like level 10.
But you'll find out soon enough Dave :p

 

[DaveO]

I'd say that the max level in Phantasie I without massive grinding would be 12. Sure, you could repeat specific places(Woodville easily comes to mind) or reset the final dungeon multiple times and run a risk of hitting the experience threshold. If my math holds up, that would amount to 780000 experience assuming all characters get two shares. I don't recommend more than 250000 experience for an individual run. Given how much experience is needed as you go up, I can see where leveling starts hurting since you accumulate time and this could potentially cause a lot of issues. Spell management is also very important as Francois424 mentioned where you could NOT be able to learn new spells. The hybrid characters(monk and ranger) need to keep this in mind. I was correct about the outside inns providing spell point increases far more readily than the ones in town which makes sense. I'd call this game an intro to the Wizard's Crown and Eternal Dagger games, with Goldbox yet another step in terms of challenge and complexity.

 

[Francois424]

Well, the area north of Starville (the deep desert tiles) are phenomenal for leveling. Great XP tho on AtariST there's that dumb 65k/character per sortie limit. So yoiu keep having to return to town to distribute (and equal shares or it COSTS you XP)
I made it to level 13-14 before going to the end and wrapping the game. Simple dancing in the desert tiles for tough encounters
But yeah it is a grind past 12, agreed. Same in P3 but it gets bad around level 15 (with a limit of level 20. My highest ever was 17 and only managed this once).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

That 65k might apply to all of the platforms. I didn't to that point on all versions.

 

[Francois424]

It does not on the Commodore Version, I've watched an LP and apparently it's not there. But I havent played the version myself.
This is why I want a remaster of these games (preferably in the P3 engine with CON bug fixes, remove the 65k exp/gold limit and add missing monster/terrain sprites).
All three in the 3rd game for nice graphics upgrade and keyboard support (P1/P2 = no keyboard support on AtariST).

But pretty sure the Commodore64 does not have that limit. I may be wrong, so anyone with that version feel free to test it.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

The atari800 version looks so close to the c64. I played it a bit and it felt similar.

 

[DaveO]

The Hut is quite a challenge for early level parties. I'm sure the game will reward the challenge, plus it is one of the places where I could possible farm more experience. Odd things I've thought about in regards to Phantasie I. Why is there anything living on the Olympic plane? I can see some jusitification for a dragon being there, but what is an old man doing there as well? Is it Zeus in disguise messing with you? Maybe the Bleebs in P1 had something to do with the Beeping Blobs in P2. I have P3 available with my P1 party(though in progress as Octavius mentioned in the very early part of this thread). I've seen charisma give characters free training if it is high enough(my character has 20 charisma). I don't know if the free training ride is all the way thru P2 or not. As much as it would be nice to have the whole SSI catalog remastered, I'm not sure what profit there would be beyond Goldbox.

I saw Shard of Spring and Demon's Winter on sale at GoG. Any recommendations to try them both or skip?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Those are definitely pre-gold boxish with a far smaller combat arena compared to Wizard's Crown series. I liked them. I've only played c64 & pc. I finished Shard on C64. They're ok. I'd be curious if you approached the world map as I did.

Some simple stuff for Shard at least: focus each mage on 1 school. Trying to get every school on 1 alt is pointless. Get the skill to allow hunting for good (i think it was a skill)

Don't forget that sweet sweet Siradne ass.

 

[newtmonkey]

DaveO
I recently completed Shard of Spring. It's alright, but nothing substantial, though I did enjoy it.
I haven't completed Demon's Winter, but I have played it a lot. It's a lot more interesting, with a much larger world, more character variety including some unique classes, and a very cool "twist" partway through the game. Compared with SoS, the scenarios are much more memorable, and the systems are more complex and therefore more satisfying. SoS is very linear and there isn't very much to party composition, since there are so few classes (just two, warrior or wizard).

If you are interested in the history of games, etc., it's worth playing SoS first. It's not very long, so you could probably blast through it over a week (maybe even a weekend).

 

[octavius]

I haven't played SoS, but I enjoyed Demon's Winter.
Decent exploration and combat, and when it was over I felt there were still monsters and items I hadn't seen yet, so it never got stale.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I can't recall how much I purposely grinded before I was done. I do that in games after finishing them.

 

[octavius]

Only game I recall doing that in was Might&Magic 1, setting off the alarm in Castle Doom, and then farming the monster breeding grounds for Black Boxes.

 

[DaveO]

I'll hold off on those other games at the moment. I'd much rather try to find out more about my current P2 experience. I'll try exploring other places a bit to see if I can find a good progression. I mostly have level 5 or 6 characters, but I don't want to neglect opportunities to farm experience without too much impact to time. I'm staying away from the Hut at the moment. Another of Pluto's beasts was there, and I don't have sufficient offense and hit points to withstand a few rounds.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Gotta get them japanese versions going.