KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Really, nobody else brought this up? If the briefings was after you encounter them would be one thing, but they come before. It kinda ruins the mutation surprise, at least for me.

Yeah.
I'm not fan of those briefings either. Takes away "WTF is that!!!??" -factor when coming across new critters.

 

[sser]

Bought it. Along with Empire of Sin, Shiren, War of Rights, and what looks like will be Shadow Empire, it's a very crowded first week of December.

I've stayed away from PP (literally and figuratively) so I'll dip into it with a fresh mindset this weekend if I find some time.

 

[prengle]

gosh this game fucking sucked a year ago and it sucks now, who could've guessed. hope julian is having fun choking on timmy tencent's bent chode

Beaglerush is a retard

beagle is a cuck, his brother dan is also a cuck but I think he helped design destroy all humans(!) so i'm not really sure what to think

 

[ArchAngel]

I was rather put off this game by Beaglerush's disdain as he was giving it a tryout. Has it settled down to be a good game after all or is it irredeemable shit? Was it some sort of cash-grab using Gollop's name, or is it a serious game?

After enjoying the hell out of Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children, I've got the XCOM-ish combat itch and wouldn't mind playing another game in roughly the same vein.

Beaglerush is a retard that didn't even play old UFO games and jerks off to Firaxis Xcom shit.
His rant vs PP at release was so retarded I don't know how the guy manages to put clothes on himself in the morning.

He's not totally a sucker for nu-XCOM, he didn't like XCOM 2 very much. His jam was the first XCOM+expansion, and XCOM+Long War, and he was very, very good at it.

But while I respect his opinion to a degree, I felt even at the time of watching his takedown of PP that he doesn't have much of a feel for simulation (at least not in his XCOM), which it seems like PP is trying for, more so than the XCOM games. What he liked about XCOM (I think) is the hard binary (chess-like) nature of the first XCOM game - a mechanic that was preserved through the Long War mod, even though it was ostensibly more simulationist. If PP is in fact more simulationist (as is Troubleshooter) then I'd be happy to give it a go.

It is very simulation focused, more than OG Xcom in some cases:
1. All weapons are ballistics based, not % based. Each bullet/projectile is its own entity and acts that way (for example one projectile can break cover, next one hits guy behind it or one kills the target, next one hits whatever is behind it). As a result that means you got friendly fire, you got misses that hit and you got 100% hit chance from point blank like in old Xcom (which is probably less realistic but people liked that).
2. Everyone has body parts and those body parts have different health and armor values. Old Xcom also had body parts but one armor value. Like in old Xcom each body part can bleed separately. In addition each disabled body part has additional effects that range from disabled special abilities to inability to use two handed weapon (or any weapons and items if you lose both hands).
3. First person aiming is very good simulation wise, especially since FP camera starts at weapons height, not at eyes level of soldier. So if you got a heavy cannon that is held low you aim from that height. Old Ufo still had to use % to show you your hit chance, PP shows you all that like a soldier would and you can make better simulationist decisions if you want to try the shot or not.
4. AP system is just like old UFO only with modern UI. You got 4 AP where each represents 25% of your max AP/TU. Movement makes up parts of each AP and attack actions cost from 0 AP to 4 AP. In old UFO you had snap shot, auto shot and aimed shot, each spent certain % of max TU. PP just used AP to make it into uniform 25% of max TU instead of random % of max TU old Xcom used. Otherwise it works the same, you can spend your max TU as you like, game pauses your movement when you discover new enemies (or allies) and so on.
5. Game has full in combat inventory system that can be used like in old Xcom. You can pick up stuff, put it down, exchange between soldiers, exchange items/weapons between backpack and ready slots and so on. No stupid limitations like in new Xcom. As a result you can do things like carry extra rockets with other soldiers for your heavy soldiers.
6. Cover system is like old Ufo, it gives no % to defense but only as a physical barrier vs enemy weapons. And some weapons go through it or blow it up. If you hiding just at a corner enemy just need to move sideways a few tiles and he can hit you much more easily, something new Xcoms didn't have except in some mods.

In some parts it is not as simulationist.
1. You cannot manually crouch or go prone. Your soldiers automatically crouch when next to low cover but always stay standing in other cases.
2. In combat there are less stats to worry about than in old Xcom, for example Stamina is not used inside combat but only outside. It is a way to limit how often you can do missions before needing to rest your soldiers.
3. Willpoints are a mix of stress management and resistance to PSI attacks (like if you combined morale and PSI resistance into one in old Xcom). They did make it a bit gamey here by letting your use your willpoints to do special attacks but that can be explained as stress management. These special abilities are stressful and as result reduce your willpoints making you more susceptible to panic or psi abilities.

This is fast comparison on combat differences and I am sure I missed some stuff. Geoscape stuff also has differences but I cba to do that now.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Old Xcom also had body parts but one armor value.

ackshually....
UFO: Enemy Unknown has directional armour instead of body part specific one.

 

[gurugeorge]

I was rather put off this game by Beaglerush's disdain as he was giving it a tryout. Has it settled down to be a good game after all or is it irredeemable shit? Was it some sort of cash-grab using Gollop's name, or is it a serious game?

After enjoying the hell out of Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children, I've got the XCOM-ish combat itch and wouldn't mind playing another game in roughly the same vein.

Beaglerush is a retard that didn't even play old UFO games and jerks off to Firaxis Xcom shit.
His rant vs PP at release was so retarded I don't know how the guy manages to put clothes on himself in the morning.

He's not totally a sucker for nu-XCOM, he didn't like XCOM 2 very much. His jam was the first XCOM+expansion, and XCOM+Long War, and he was very, very good at it.

But while I respect his opinion to a degree, I felt even at the time of watching his takedown of PP that he doesn't have much of a feel for simulation (at least not in his XCOM), which it seems like PP is trying for, more so than the XCOM games. What he liked about XCOM (I think) is the hard binary (chess-like) nature of the first XCOM game - a mechanic that was preserved through the Long War mod, even though it was ostensibly more simulationist. If PP is in fact more simulationist (as is Troubleshooter) then I'd be happy to give it a go.

It is very simulation focused, more than OG Xcom in some cases:
1. All weapons are ballistics based, not % based. Each bullet/projectile is its own entity and acts that way (for example one projectile can break cover, next one hits guy behind it or one kills the target, next one hits whatever is behind it). As a result that means you got friendly fire, you got misses that hit and you got 100% hit chance from point blank like in old Xcom (which is probably less realistic but people liked that).
2. Everyone has body parts and those body parts have different health and armor values. Old Xcom also had body parts but one armor value. Like in old Xcom each body part can bleed separately. In addition each disabled body part has additional effects that range from disabled special abilities to inability to use two handed weapon (or any weapons and items if you lose both hands).
3. First person aiming is very good simulation wise, especially since FP camera starts at weapons height, not at eyes level of soldier. So if you got a heavy cannon that is held low you aim from that height. Old Ufo still had to use % to show you your hit chance, PP shows you all that like a soldier would and you can make better simulationist decisions if you want to try the shot or not.
4. AP system is just like old UFO only with modern UI. You got 4 AP where each represents 25% of your max AP/TU. Movement makes up parts of each AP and attack actions cost from 0 AP to 4 AP. In old UFO you had snap shot, auto shot and aimed shot, each spent certain % of max TU. PP just used AP to make it into uniform 25% of max TU instead of random % of max TU old Xcom used. Otherwise it works the same, you can spend your max TU as you like, game pauses your movement when you discover new enemies (or allies) and so on.
5. Game has full in combat inventory system that can be used like in old Xcom. You can pick up stuff, put it down, exchange between soldiers, exchange items/weapons between backpack and ready slots and so on. No stupid limitations like in new Xcom. As a result you can do things like carry extra rockets with other soldiers for your heavy soldiers.
6. Cover system is like old Ufo, it gives no % to defense but only as a physical barrier vs enemy weapons. And some weapons go through it or blow it up. If you hiding just at a corner enemy just need to move sideways a few tiles and he can hit you much more easily, something new Xcoms didn't have except in some mods.

In some parts it is not as simulationist.
1. You cannot manually crouch or go prone. Your soldiers automatically crouch when next to low cover but always stay standing in other cases.
2. In combat there are less stats to worry about than in old Xcom, for example Stamina is not used inside combat but only outside. It is a way to limit how often you can do missions before needing to rest your soldiers.
3. Willpoints are a mix of stress management and resistance to PSI attacks (like if you combined morale and PSI resistance into one in old Xcom). They did make it a bit gamey here by letting your use your willpoints to do special attacks but that can be explained as stress management. These special abilities are stressful and as result reduce your willpoints making you more susceptible to panic or psi abilities.

This is fast comparison on combat differences and I am sure I missed some stuff. Geoscape stuff also has differences but I cba to do that now.

Thanks very much for taking the time to write that up. I think I might give it a try.

 

[ArchAngel]

Old Xcom also had body parts but one armor value.

ackshually....
UFO: Enemy Unknown has directional armour instead of body part specific one.

Ok, I forgot that. What PP has is still more simulation than this. But it does not matter really, the main point was that this game is NOT nuXcom clone like some people like to lie.

 

[Alienman]

While I do enjoy the game, two things really annoys me. The briefings is one thing. Now I got spoiled on what I will find inside an alien base, and I have never been to one, except a small nest. What is funny too here, it's only been a short time in game, but the aliens keep upgrading really damn fast. In 1-2 days they went from machine gunners to much tougher ones, with sirens and everything else in between. But what really puts a damper on my game now is how Phoenix Bases/exploration work. I got a mission on the other side of the world and the only way to increase my standing with the faction I like is to do that mission. For me to reach that location I have to reclaim bases all over the world so I can finally fly over there. I have now have 5-6 bases, but with no personality at all to them. I can't afford to have troopers there, I can't afford to build anything in them. They are just skeleton bases with the most basic stuff activated, like the radar thingy.

 

[ArchAngel]

I was rather put off this game by Beaglerush's disdain as he was giving it a tryout. Has it settled down to be a good game after all or is it irredeemable shit? Was it some sort of cash-grab using Gollop's name, or is it a serious game?

After enjoying the hell out of Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children, I've got the XCOM-ish combat itch and wouldn't mind playing another game in roughly the same vein.

Beaglerush is a retard that didn't even play old UFO games and jerks off to Firaxis Xcom shit.
His rant vs PP at release was so retarded I don't know how the guy manages to put clothes on himself in the morning.

I just answer with a quote of myself from a year ago:

To clarify I only posted this with the source (video) because I thought the same.


Also here is his conclusion:

This is a game that makes you appreciate OG X-COM

How comes he says that if he hasn't played the original?

There is play and don't like it and play and really like it like me and you and many others. He is a staunch defender of NuXcom and its mods. He bashed PP mostly because it went away from that formula to try to be more like old Xcom. Fuck that loser.
At least people like you that feel betrayed or those that don't like the art direction I can understand but Beaglerush is a just a retard and a cuck.

 

[ArchAngel]

While I do enjoy the game, two things really annoys me. The briefings is one thing. Now I got spoiled on what I will find inside an alien base, and I have never been to one, except a small nest. What is funny too here, it's only been a short time in game, but the aliens keep upgrading really damn fast. In 1-2 days they went from machine gunners to much tougher ones, with sirens and everything else in between. But what really puts a damper on my game now is how Phoenix Bases/exploration work. I got a mission on the other side of the world and the only way to increase my standing with the faction I like is to do that mission. For me to reach that location I have to reclaim bases all over the world so I can finally fly over there. I have now have 5-6 bases, but with no personality at all to them. I can't afford to have troopers there, I can't afford to build anything in them. They are just skeleton bases with the most basic stuff activated, like the radar thingy.

Speed of enemy evolution is a combination of game difficulty and how much you are owning them during combat missions.

 

[Alienman]

Can they de-evolve if I go easy on them? I'm on "hero" difficulty.

 

[robinox]

pseudo-EULA screen about how they sell your data, you don't own shit and were generally really dumb to buy this.

care to clarify the highlighted bit?
about the "don't own shit" part... isn't every EULA ever like that?
(moreover, if buy on gog i should get a drm-less exe, right? how would they enforce anything?)

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

the main point was that this game is NOT nuXcom clone like some people like to lie.

Comparisons with nuXCOM are unavoidable, but what I'm seeing is Gollop doing thematic throwbacks to Laser Squad (style of armours) and X-com: Apocalypse (faction play, albeit it's simpler in PP) with some mechanical wonkines that comes with this being Unity game, but at least this is way better optimised than Battletech, and questionable morale mechanic which feels somehow too linear and predictable.

Speaking about Laser Squad, I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of its scenarios are re-made in PP.

 

[Zombra]

pseudo-EULA screen about how they sell your data, you don't own shit and were generally really dumb to buy this.

care to clarify the highlighted bit?
about the "don't own shit" part... isn't every EULA ever like that?
(moreover, if buy on gog i should get a drm-less exe, right? how would they enforce anything?)

There's nothing like that. They ask if it's OK to track how you play, like they want to know how many players are using the laser cannon and how many are using the plasma slingshot, how easy it is to win allied with the Hatfields and how easy with the McCoys. Basically they ask if it's OK to look at your achievements, and if you don't want them to, they won't.

 

[Mazisky]

People say it looks like a Nuxcom clone not much because of gameplay but because they scrapped the original art direction to mimic that of Nuxcoms, which was an awful decision because on the surface it looks like a cheap Nuxcom clone, rather than a total different thing.

If they went full horror or maybe even fantasy, that "cheap Firaxis clone" feeling would not be there.

 

[ArchAngel]

pseudo-EULA screen about how they sell your data, you don't own shit and were generally really dumb to buy this.

care to clarify the highlighted bit?
about the "don't own shit" part... isn't every EULA ever like that?
(moreover, if buy on gog i should get a drm-less exe, right? how would they enforce anything?)

It is without DRM on all platforms. You can run the game without Steam or Epic being open, that means it has no DRM

 

[ArchAngel]

the main point was that this game is NOT nuXcom clone like some people like to lie.

Comparisons with nuXCOM are unavoidable, but what I'm seeing is Gollop doing thematic throwbacks to Laser Squad (style of armours) and X-com: Apocalypse (faction play, albeit it's simplerin PP) with some mechanical wonkines that comes with this being Unity game, but at least this is way better optimised than Battletech, and questionable morale mechanic which feels somehow too linear and predictable.

Speaking about Laser Squad, I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of its scenarios are re-made in PP.

It is definitely better optimized than Battletech and has much shorter loading times on a SSD.

 

[ArchAngel]

People say it looks like a Nuxcom clone not much because of gameplay but because they scrapped the original art direction to mimic that of Nuxcoms, which was an awful decision because on the surface it looks like a cheap Nuxcom clone, rather than a total different thing.

If they went full horror or maybe even fantasy, that "cheap Firaxis clone" feeling would not be there.

I do agree with that, I am also not a fan of the art direction but for me gameplay is king and here it rules over the competition.

 

[robinox]

There's nothing like that. They ask if it's OK to track how you play, like they want to know how many players are using the laser cannon and how many are using the plasma slingshot, how easy it is to win allied with the Hatfields and how easy with the McCoys. Basically they ask if it's OK to look at your achievements, and if you don't want them to, they won't.

thanks

 

[Alienman]

It is definitely better optimized than Battletech and has much shorter loading times on a SSD.

I'm impressed with the loading times, since this is on unity after all. Also general performance seem improved overall. There is no antialias option though, which I found weird. But activating it through Nvidia thingy works.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

pseudo-EULA screen about how they sell your data, you don't own shit and were generally really dumb to buy this.

care to clarify the highlighted bit?
about the "don't own shit" part... isn't every EULA ever like that?
(moreover, if buy on gog i should get a drm-less exe, right? how would they enforce anything?)

There's nothing like that. They ask if it's OK to track how you play, like they want to know how many players are using the laser cannon and how many are using the plasma slingshot, how easy it is to win allied with the Hatfields and how easy with the McCoys. Basically they ask if it's OK to look at your achievements, and if you don't want them to, they won't.

Cool story bro, telemetry is a completely separate prompt from the EULA thing.

 

[Zombra]

Cool story bro, telemetry is a completely separate prompt from the EULA thing.

That's the only "agree to this" screen that came up for me. I guess they just targeted you with their "pseudo-EULA".
Watch your back, friend - you're not paranoid if they're actually out to get you

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Watch your back, friend - you're not paranoid if they're actually out to get you

Damn right!

 

[Mazisky]

People say it looks like a Nuxcom clone not much because of gameplay but because they scrapped the original art direction to mimic that of Nuxcoms, which was an awful decision because on the surface it looks like a cheap Nuxcom clone, rather than a total different thing.

If they went full horror or maybe even fantasy, that "cheap Firaxis clone" feeling would not be there.

I do agree with that, I am also not a fan of the art direction but for me gameplay is king and here it rules over the competition.

The problem is that if the presentation is so dull and uninspired, and you play this only cause of deeper gameplay, why do not just play old masterpieces of the genre.

I mean, I get the whole "Nuxcom is for casuals, I play PP cause it's deeper, don't care about how it looks", but what PP offers that other old gems don't

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Cool story bro, telemetry is a completely separate prompt from the EULA thing.

That's the only "agree to this" screen that came up for me. I guess they just targeted you with their "pseudo-EULA".
Watch your back, friend - you're not paranoid if they're actually out to get you

Oh look, a dumbfuck trying to look witty over inability to get basic facts right and getting called out on it. It's not like it's enough to just use Internet to verify.