KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Thorgeim]

oof, so I tried to get into this game again since last year or so, nice to see updates and DLCs but its no help when the fundamentals of this game are still so lame. Just the UI is something out of a budget title, I mean I play on 1440p and every thing is so big, orange and big, it seems like it was designed to be played on a tablet or a mobile phone (insert "dont you guys have mobile phones" joke). Even worse is the battle UI, esp. the various details like HP bars, the early beta/alpha had a pretty slick UI with HP dots, they changed to shevrons and it looks ugly af, I wish I could mod it back. Even the old Ufo Defense UI would be better today ... The AI is stupid in 50% of the cases at least, soldiers dont have any charm or character, etc etc.

I dunno, I guess Im just disappointed and expected more from the legend.

 

[Togukawa]

At least they are making big strides with the patches! Look at that changelist! That must have taken an intern several minutes of work!

 

[Ibn Sina]

Still better than soy-com 2

 

[Mazisky]

Still better than soy-com 2

It's better at being a bad clone for sure

 

[Shog-goth]

Still better than soy-com 2

XCOM 2 knows what it wants to be, Phoenix Point at all and it shows.

 

[gurugeorge]

I started this a while ago and got quite into it, but some other shiny thing took my attention. I'm playing it again now, and it seems to have incrementally improved since the last time.

It's basically popamole, but quite enjoyable - the best word I can think of to describe it is "breezy" or maybe "brisk." It's not the sort of game where you ponder a lot and think hard about options, most of your thinking goes into positioning, which has a fair amount of depth, but doesn't take very long to figure out for any given move, as you've usually got a plan for it involving several characters.

It's a shame that it's compared to XCOM and people are disappointed, because apart from some of the looks of it, and some of the general structure in the strategic layer, it's really nothing like XCOM, it plays very differently - it's more of a semi-realistic sort of game, and it doesn't have much of the board-game feel of XCOM, or even something like Troubleshooter. The gameplay is kind of "fuzzy" and intuitive, almost like a military shooter but top-down with turns; it's not hard and deterministic, and I think that's what some people don't like about it.

This is the case to the extent that I think perhaps the biggest mistake they made was making it look like XCOM, having XCOM tropes in the UI, and having some of the flavour of that game generally. I guess the idea was to hitch a ride on XCOM's popularity, but they'd have done better to put some distance between them and XCOM in terms of UI and general looks, and especially marketing. It must have been hard though, because after all Mr. Gollop invented some of those tropes himself (e.g. the geoscape and strategic layer), so he probably saw no need to change them.

 

[Togukawa]

They had something unique and threw it away for the mass market appeal of xcom, without having the budget or the talent to understand what makes xcom sufferable.
They ended up with an unpolished, bland and cheap looking game, whose flashes of brilliance get buried under the shit.
A pity.

 

[ArchAngel]

I started this a while ago and got quite into it, but some other shiny thing took my attention. I'm playing it again now, and it seems to have incrementally improved since the last time.

It's basically popamole, but quite enjoyable - the best word I can think of to describe it is "breezy" or maybe "brisk." It's not the sort of game where you ponder a lot and think hard about options, most of your thinking goes into positioning, which has a fair amount of depth, but doesn't take very long to figure out for any given move, as you've usually got a plan for it involving several characters.

It's a shame that it's compared to XCOM and people are disappointed, because apart from some of the looks of it, and some of the general structure in the strategic layer, it's really nothing like XCOM, it plays very differently - it's more of a semi-realistic sort of game, and it doesn't have much of the board-game feel of XCOM, or even something like Troubleshooter. The gameplay is kind of "fuzzy" and intuitive, almost like a military shooter but top-down with turns; it's not hard and deterministic, and I think that's what some people don't like about it.

This is the case to the extent that I think perhaps the biggest mistake they made was making it look like XCOM, having XCOM tropes in the UI, and having some of the flavour of that game generally. I guess the idea was to hitch a ride on XCOM's popularity, but they'd have done better to put some distance between them and XCOM in terms of UI and general looks, and especially marketing. It must have been hard though, because after all Mr. Gollop invented some of those tropes himself (e.g. the geoscape and strategic layer), so he probably saw no need to change them.

You are saying this like original UFO also had way more options that positioning and TU management. And PP has it same.
Comparing Xcom like games to tactical RPGs like Troubleshooter is not fair as they are not same genre.

 

[gurugeorge]

I started this a while ago and got quite into it, but some other shiny thing took my attention. I'm playing it again now, and it seems to have incrementally improved since the last time.

It's basically popamole, but quite enjoyable - the best word I can think of to describe it is "breezy" or maybe "brisk." It's not the sort of game where you ponder a lot and think hard about options, most of your thinking goes into positioning, which has a fair amount of depth, but doesn't take very long to figure out for any given move, as you've usually got a plan for it involving several characters.

It's a shame that it's compared to XCOM and people are disappointed, because apart from some of the looks of it, and some of the general structure in the strategic layer, it's really nothing like XCOM, it plays very differently - it's more of a semi-realistic sort of game, and it doesn't have much of the board-game feel of XCOM, or even something like Troubleshooter. The gameplay is kind of "fuzzy" and intuitive, almost like a military shooter but top-down with turns; it's not hard and deterministic, and I think that's what some people don't like about it.

This is the case to the extent that I think perhaps the biggest mistake they made was making it look like XCOM, having XCOM tropes in the UI, and having some of the flavour of that game generally. I guess the idea was to hitch a ride on XCOM's popularity, but they'd have done better to put some distance between them and XCOM in terms of UI and general looks, and especially marketing. It must have been hard though, because after all Mr. Gollop invented some of those tropes himself (e.g. the geoscape and strategic layer), so he probably saw no need to change them.

You are saying this like original UFO also had way more options that positioning and TU management. And PP has it same.
Comparing Xcom like games to tactical RPGs like Troubleshooter is not fair as they are not same genre.

What I'm saying is that they made it seem like this is like XCOM (not X-Com), i.e. other than leaning on the name of the developer of the original X-Com, they marketed this as like the recently-popular game, XCOM, and it looks at first glance like the recently-popular game, and that's the expectation you go into it with; but it's not really much like the recent XCOM at the tactical level.

I suppose you could indeed say it's more like the original X-Com than XCOM was. IIRC Gollop initially intended X-Com as a squad simulator, that's what he made within the limitations of his day, and that seems to be the intent he's carried through with this, that's what it feels like, more than the computerized board-game that Firaxis developed.

 

[Thorgeim]

At least they are making big strides with the patches! Look at that changelist! That must have taken an intern several minutes of work!

lol thats another thing ... patch notes are more like balance/meta changes rather than making the actual game better.

 

[gurugeorge]

At least they are making big strides with the patches! Look at that changelist! That must have taken an intern several minutes of work!

lol thats another thing ... patch notes are more like balance/meta changes rather than making the actual game better.

What would make it better? I mean so far as I can see the core gameplay is fine, the only problem is just that you can be going merrily along and then hit a wall of some kind that screws your game. So isn't that exactly a question of balance and meta changes?

And wasn't that the case with X-Com too?

And with XCOM, both developers and modders went to great lengths to avoid that sort of thing (to suit more sensitive modern feelings), but they didn't have to change the core game to do it.

 

[ArchAngel]

At least they are making big strides with the patches! Look at that changelist! That must have taken an intern several minutes of work!

lol thats another thing ... patch notes are more like balance/meta changes rather than making the actual game better.

What would make the game better in your opinion?

 

[gurugeorge]

The strategic layer is much more engaging that XCOM's. Exploring the POIs is more fun, what with the trading, the reverse engineering from people you pick up from them, etc. (as an inveterate goody-two-shoes I haven't tried raiding or stealing, but I imagine that could be very effective), the factions are more lively and the world feels more like a world rather than a globe with a few hotspots.

And I think the adaptation idea is genuinely interesting. I was checking out a YT vid where the guy said his early strat involved a lot of snipers going for leg shots, and pretty soon all the enemies had increasing amounts of leg armor, to the point that the strat was no longer viable. Nice

The thing is though, I don't think that's what people really want, or at least not everybody. What a substantial chunk of people want, I think, is precisely to settle down into a groove so they can get into a trance state. And that can be a big-brained trance state too - for example, I remember the Youtuber Beaglerush's complaints about this game (and XCOM2 for that matter), and they basically amounted to, "This isn't the kind of gameplay I honed a very effective strategy with on Legendary in the XCOM/LW setting, so it's crap."

It's always that balance between "I want a challenge" and "I wanna relax and get into a trance state" with gaming. I veer back and forth myself, at different times and in different moods.

 

[ArchAngel]

The strategic layer is much more engaging that XCOM's. Exploring the POIs is more fun, what with the trading, the reverse engineering from people you pick up from them, etc. (as an inveterate goody-two-shoes I haven't tried raiding or stealing, but I imagine that could be very effective), the factions are more lively and the world feels more like a world rather than a globe with a few hotspots.

And I think the adaptation idea is genuinely interesting. I was checking out a YT vid where the guy said his early strat involved a lot of snipers going for leg shots, and pretty soon all the enemies had increasing amounts of leg armor, to the point that the strat was no longer viable. Nice

The thing is though, I don't think that's what people really want, or at least not everybody. What a substantial chunk of people want, I think, is precisely to settle down into a groove so they can get into a trance state. And that can be a big-brained trance state too - for example, I remember the Youtuber Beaglerush's complaints about this game (and XCOM2 for that matter), and they basically amounted to, "This isn't the kind of gameplay I honed a very effective strategy with on Legendary in the XCOM/LW setting, so it's crap."

It's always that balance between "I want a challenge" and "I wanna relax and get into a trance state" with gaming. I veer back and forth myself, at different times and in different moods.

This was patched out because a lot of people complained about it and didn't like it. Also it was not really noticeable by most players, they just felt like enemies only got more armor and that was only change. It was replaced a long time ago with mutation tree for pandorans where when they mutate they change into specific new versions with fixed stats. Once they reach the apex state they stop changing. There are exclusive paths on this tree but it is random which path will be chosen.

As for people like Beaglerush, I don't care what retards like him think. He didn't even really play original Xcom but acts like some big authority on the genre.

 

[gurugeorge]

The strategic layer is much more engaging that XCOM's. Exploring the POIs is more fun, what with the trading, the reverse engineering from people you pick up from them, etc. (as an inveterate goody-two-shoes I haven't tried raiding or stealing, but I imagine that could be very effective), the factions are more lively and the world feels more like a world rather than a globe with a few hotspots.

And I think the adaptation idea is genuinely interesting. I was checking out a YT vid where the guy said his early strat involved a lot of snipers going for leg shots, and pretty soon all the enemies had increasing amounts of leg armor, to the point that the strat was no longer viable. Nice

The thing is though, I don't think that's what people really want, or at least not everybody. What a substantial chunk of people want, I think, is precisely to settle down into a groove so they can get into a trance state. And that can be a big-brained trance state too - for example, I remember the Youtuber Beaglerush's complaints about this game (and XCOM2 for that matter), and they basically amounted to, "This isn't the kind of gameplay I honed a very effective strategy with on Legendary in the XCOM/LW setting, so it's crap."

It's always that balance between "I want a challenge" and "I wanna relax and get into a trance state" with gaming. I veer back and forth myself, at different times and in different moods.

This was patched out because a lot of people complained about it and didn't like it. Also it was not really noticeable by most players, they just felt like enemies only got more armor and that was only change. It was replaced a long time ago with mutation tree for pandorans where when they mutate they change into specific new versions with fixed stats. Once they reach the apex state they stop changing. There are exclusive paths on this tree but it is random which path will be chosen.

As for people like Beaglerush, I don't care what retards like him think. He didn't even really play original Xcom but acts like some big authority on the genre.

Aww that's a shame, I was looking forward to it happening.

I stand by my other comments though, I do find this game more fun than XCOM in some ways. I do like the board-gamey style of XCOM (and Troubleshooter) too of course, but this is a different, more free-flowing type of gameplay that's also quite good fun in its own way, and it's also more engaging and, dare I say it, immersive, at the strategic level.

(re. Beaglerush - yeah, he's annoying, but his XCOM/LW runs were very entertaining, and he was very good at it - come on, admit it )

 

[Togukawa]

What would make the game better in your opinion?

On gameplay side: less busy work on the geoscape, a better sense of progression.

And generally, my main issue with the game is a lack of immersion. The world just doesn't make sense to me.
The tactical fights are excellent, even if I'm not that much a fan of the soldier abilities. But I just don't care about anything that happens. And I can't shake the feeling that I'm playing a cheap xcom knockoff, even if the tactical battles are in fact better.

I was expecting more from Gollop.

 

[Ibn Sina]

I like the world of PP better than XCOM due to its lovecraftian doom vibe. XCOM 2 always felt way too capeshit for me.

 

[Alienman]

I also like the setting, but on the strategic level I feel the other factions are way too passive. Especially the military faction, they are stronger than Phoenix Point but rarely do anything. I just wish the world felt more alive so you didn't have to babysit all the things going on.

 

[Shog-goth]

Aww that's a shame, I was looking forward to it happening.

This is precisely what has been repeated for every single promised feature since the beginning of crowdfunding. The perfect synthesis of this story.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

to me one thing that sucks is that the tech tree feels like every faction is basically the same thing. They all have an assault gun, a shotgun, a pistol, a heavy and a sniper rifle etc.. but they are just a tiny bit different than each other (one has higher shred, but lower range..one higher armor piercing and longer range, but lower something else..) its really fucking boring and totally makes me not care about research since in the end the weapons are almost completely balanced and it seems like it hardly really matters. Maybe I just quit too soon though and this changes or something as the game and research goes on, but it was hard to want to keep playing once I realized this about the basic faction weapons...

It just felt so bland and lame... it felt like it lacked creativity to differentiate the factions. I feel like I am playing one of those board games where all the factions have the same basic shit but just different bright colored plastic pieces to represent them. Like one side has yellow tanks and planes and ships and another has blue ones, perhaps with a +1 difference on dice mods in certain small modifiers to add some 'spice'...

The game even has the skittle bright colors like board game pieces might have. Just feels totally opposite of how the kickstarter pitch felt.

 

[spectre]

I didn't really follow the kickstarter on this one. Guess it saves me some disappointment, but yeah, it feels weird for the guy who pretty much invented the genre to put up something so... derivative?

I think the problem is having human factions in the first place. The essential vibe of UFO is that Xcom is humanity's last hope and a technological spearhead, and still it needs to scrounge for and reverse engineer alien tech just to be able to compete with the extraterrestrial menace.
While I'm not against having a few factions at the geoscape for variety (makes sense to have warring tribes if the games leitmotif is uniting humanity), it's easy for this internal conflict to overshadow the main theme of the game - humans vs. aliens.
I think Phoenix point went too far in crossing the line, introducing too many and too diverse factions. If anything, such diversification would be welcome among the aliens - they get to be the coloful bag of skittles while humen... well, they should
stay plain and boring.

And it could work within the framework of the lovecraftian mythos. You could have the technologically advanced Mi-Go doing all kinds of experiments on humans, followers of Dagon attacking from the sea, Shub Niggurath ritual sites in the woods, Hastur cultists operating in the shadows with mind control, etc. etc.

The final nail to the coffin, as far as I am concerned, is this whole bullshit with ancestral digging sites in which you discover tech to build orichalcum warhammers just like the ones our ancestors used to bash xeno skulls with.

 

[ArchAngel]

to me one thing that sucks is that the tech tree feels like every faction is basically the same thing. They all have an assault gun, a shotgun, a pistol, a heavy and a sniper rifle etc.. but they are just a tiny bit different than each other (one has higher shred, but lower range..one higher armor piercing and longer range, but lower something else..) its really fucking boring and totally makes me not care about research since in the end the weapons are almost completely balanced and it seems like it hardly really matters. Maybe I just quit too soon though and this changes or something as the game and research goes on, but it was hard to want to keep playing once I realized this about the basic faction weapons...

It just felt so bland and lame... it felt like it lacked creativity to differentiate the factions. I feel like I am playing one of those board games where all the factions have the same basic shit but just different bright colored plastic pieces to represent them. Like one side has yellow tanks and planes and ships and another has blue ones, perhaps with a +1 difference on dice mods in certain small modifiers to add some 'spice'...

The game even has the skittle bright colors like board game pieces might have. Just feels totally opposite of how the kickstarter pitch felt.

That is not true. Anu has no snipers but has shotguns and melee weapons. New Jericho has heavy weapons and rockets which is exclusive to them, Snyderion has stealth stuff. Only common thing to all 3 factions is pistols lol, they don't even all have their own assault rifles.
And end game weapons are OP as hell, much stronger than starting ones. And that is without DLC2 weapons that are even stronger.

 

[Mazisky]

Problem is the classic fanbase may find OpenXcom better than this while the modern mass audience plays Xcom 2.

This game is redundant as a result

 

[ArchAngel]

Problem is the classic fanbase may find OpenXcom better than this while the modern mass audience plays Xcom 2.

This game is redundant as a result

There is plenty of people that play it that came from both camps. Not everything is white or black.

 

[Mazisky]

Problem is the classic fanbase may find OpenXcom better than this while the modern mass audience plays Xcom 2.

This game is redundant as a result

There is plenty of people that play it that came from both camps. Not everything is white or black.

That's only because this specific gerne has soo few titles that the fanbase is desperate and it will play mediocre games to fill the gap