KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[ArchAngel]

For now people are jumping to conclusions too much and judging end product mostly on its art style and UI.

Probably you're right but, for me, TU are a "much loved gameplay mechanic" to be retained and I wouldn't want to see it scrapped for AP.

Well you are going to need to come to terms that this Xcom is using D&D style turn based combat. And they did talk about this from back in Fig campaign, it was known that it would work this way.

 

[Shog-goth]

Well you are going to need to come to terms that this Xcom is using D&D style turn based combat. And they did talk about this from back in Fig campaign, it was known that it would work this way.

I backed PP despite of this because I think JG deserves this opportunity and, in any case, I'm pretty sure that It'll be a good game but that doesn't mean that I've to be pleased of this departure from original mechanics. I just hope that this choice is organic compared to the revised gameplay and not a cheap way to attract attention from NuXCOMers.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

UnstableVoltage, so will there be anything like this?

So this game has this simulated ballistics system, is there going to be anything like wind that can have an affect on shots, (and grenades) and even help you make shots you normally wouldn't be able to make?

As far as I am aware, there are no plans for gravity, wind resistance or anything like that. The only effect on projectiles is that some will be able to penetrate certain cover, but will do less damage on impact.

 

[PanteraNera]

Considering the game is still in pre alpha it might look and feel like that.
For now people are jumping to conclusions too much and judging end product mostly on its art style and UI.

It might, we do not know. But considering that the game is in development since over an year, with 10 more months to go, I doubt that there will be big changes to the things they actually happened to make.
And currently a lot of people, complain, or like, that it looks like an XCOM 2 mod .
Maybe people thought that there would be more to the hybrid system of mixing oXCOM with nuXCUM, I sure did!
I really hope that Julian is doing what he want's and not what he think he has to, to be successful, because as I said it several times before, I think when the game is released NuXCOM-Fanbois will dislike it, because it is a cheap XCOM 2 rip-off for them, and the oXCOM-Fans will dislike it, because it is to much NuXCOM.

 

[Zombra]

For now people are jumping to conclusions too much and judging end product mostly on its art style and UI.

Probably you're right but, for me, TU are a "much loved gameplay mechanic" to be retained and I wouldn't want to see it scrapped for AP.

TUs are there. You can see how far you can move before you fire, you can make little moves and correct based on new information, reserve TUs are already built in, you can choose to keep moving and not fire, it's all there except the little casual UI helper telling you a number.

 

[Shog-goth]

TUs are there. You can see how far you can move before you fire, you can make little moves and correct based on new information, reserve TUs are already built in, you can choose to keep moving and not fire, it's all there except the little casual UI helper telling you a number.

It's not about numbers but flexibility and granularity: I don't like the idea of being "caged" in a fixed combo like << move -> shoot -> (optional willpower action) -> end turn >>. I wish I could make all possible actions in any order given the amount of TU available like the original UFO.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

When the game is out, it will be judged and its reception and sales will make or break JG and Snapshot studios. All of this wailing and gnashing of teeth serves really no purpose

 

[HansDampf]

Close the thread then.

 

[PanteraNera]

TUs are there. You can see how far you can move before you fire, you can make little moves and correct based on new information, reserve TUs are already built in, you can choose to keep moving and not fire, it's all there except the little casual UI helper telling you a number.

Seriously?

Have you played the original XCOM?
With TU's you could move, shoot (different shooting modes costing a different % amount of TU's), crouch, use the inventory, open doors, rotate your soldier.

It's all there? Wtf, seriously?

I get the impression that people think it's a fucking breakthrough, that you JUST can fucking move one step at a time in PP.

 

[Mazisky]

One day you will understand that devs won't make an over complex system just to sell 8 copies instead of 500.000.

They have to balance depth and complexity so they can afford to be liked by many

 

[Perkel]

One day you will understand that devs won't make an over complex system just to sell 8 copies instead of 500.000.

They have to balance depth and complexity so they can afford to be liked by many

Yeah because action point system is sooooo complex. I am guessing DOS1 which sold 1,5mln+ broke people minds or something doing exactly that.

It isn't about complexity, it is about people having different decisions. They see NUCOM they see its sales. I guess we will copy them and we will make money.

That is all there is to it.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I get the impression that people think it's a fucking breakthrough, that you JUST can fucking move one step at a time in PP.

Shock Tactics already did that; didn't make it any better game since standard attack ends character turn anyways.

Though 2-action system is least of Shock Tactics problems.

 

[PanteraNera]

One day you will understand that devs won't make an over complex system just to sell 8 copies instead of 500.000.

They have to balance depth and complexity so they can afford to be liked by many

Yeah like Fallout 4, they really did good in removing even more game mechanics of the original Fallout 1 than they did in Fallout 3, all these numbers are so complicated and than so many words too, that really made my head hurt. But finally Bethesda have come to save us with Fallout 4, a true next-gen RPG!

Damn, I know your serious. But it's really a shock for me, how fucking dumped down and streamlined games have become and that people like that shit.

Having freedom in positioning, moving, managing your inventory, shooting, is REALLY way to complicated.

I really hope they streamline base building as well, and maybe some quick-time events for the boss fights, wouldn't that be AWEEESOOOOMMME?!

That's why I say that the game might not appeal to anyone. Because if the really deliver on the strategic layer, people's head will explode because it's so fucking complex.

 

[ArchAngel]

One day you will understand that devs won't make an over complex system just to sell 8 copies instead of 500.000.

They have to balance depth and complexity so they can afford to be liked by many

Yeah like Fallout 4, they really did good in removing even more game mechanics of the original Fallout 1 than they did in Fallout 3, all these numbers are so complicated and than so many words too, that really made my head hurt. But finally Bethesda have come to save us with Fallout 4, a true next-gen RPG!

Damn, I know your serious. But it's really a shock for me, how fucking dumped down and streamlined games have become and that people like that shit.

Having freedom in positioning, moving, managing your inventory, shooting, is REALLY way to complicated.

I really hope they streamline base building as well, and maybe some quick-time events for the boss fights, wouldn't that be AWEEESOOOOMMME?!

That's why I say that the game might not appeal to anyone. Because if the really deliver on the strategic layer, people's head will explode because it's so fucking complex.

No matter how much you want you will no longer get a modern looking Xcom like game that has TU for every little action.
I wonder if Xenonauts 2 is also going to make it simpler. Xeno 1 had very low sales compared to nuXcom 1 and nuXcom 2.

And yes for modern audience it is too complex. It is a wonder they even wanted to play a "slow" turn based game.

 

[Shog-goth]

I wonder if Xenonauts 2 is also going to make it simpler. Xeno 1 had very low sales compared to nuXcom 1 and nuXcom 2.

You're comparing an Indie with AAA budgeted games backed by big marketing cannons.

And yes for modern audience it is too complex. It is a wonder they even wanted to play a "slow" turn based game.

For modern <pseudo-casual mainstream> audience for sure. Original Sin 1/2 prove that there is still a vast and profitable market for "good" and complex turn based games.

 

[Perkel]

I wonder if Xenonauts 2 is also going to make it simpler. Xeno 1 had very low sales compared to nuXcom 1 and nuXcom 2.

250k on steam spy for a kickstarted project (5k backers). It isn't a hit but I don't think they hire many people so they should make nice profit out of it and enough to make X2

Xenonauts problem wasn't their game but that many people don't know about it and it came from unknown studio with unknown track record in 2D which gaming press just hates (considering most of them are consoletards) and complete lack of funds for PR campaign which both nucom and PPcom have.

Imo they should go in opposite way. Instead of making it dumber make it more complex and rewarding to play so that people can sink in for months playing it. This is how modern indie games make difference on market when gaming press doesn't want to cover them.

Once they will be covered by press they should pull some nice numbers

 

[PanteraNera]

No matter how much you want you will no longer get a modern looking Xcom like game that has TU for every little action.
I wonder if Xenonauts 2 is also going to make it simpler. Xeno 1 had very low sales compared to nuXcom 1 and nuXcom 2.

And yes for modern audience it is too complex. It is a wonder they even wanted to play a "slow" turn based game.

I can understand that. I just hoped that Julian Gollop would actually come up with something like a hybrid of oXCOM and nuXCOM. Something innovative. I mean he created the oXCOM.
I wished he/they actually taking more of a risk and not going for the "safe" rout. Like I said, I really think the logic is flawed there, as I do not belief that NuXCOM-Fanbois will ultimately like PP, that much. Time will tell.

In the end its all about the money, I can understand and respect that.

*edit* to make it clear, I have no problems with changes to the system, changed to the UI. I don't want a 1:1 copy of oXCOM, that would be silly. I just want the game not being so dumped down.

 

[Perkel]

In the end its all about the money, I can understand and respect that.

I don't. I don't see a reason to respect someone just because he wants money.
Respect is something you earn not something which is granted for free. Gollop had respect for making oXcom he said he knows his stuff and wants to make great proper xcom in his vision.
Well that vision looks like nucom rather than oxcom so his credit for oXcom doesn't earn him a shit imo.

Who knows maybe PP will be amazing game. NuCom with long war mod is one of the best fucking games i have ever played period, comparable to JA2.

I can give PP a chance. But it will be uphill battle. Still if they will go into Long War kind of way then i would say mea culpa and Gollop is king.

 

[PanteraNera]

I don't. I don't see a reason to respect someone just because he wants money.

Well you need money for a living. He has a game studio that might go bankrupt if he fails with PP, that's what I understand and respect. I do not like the result of it, or give him respect for what he is doing. But maybe I am lost in translation .

My personal opinion is: PP will not be for these that look for a modern JA2 or oXCOM that is not dumped down.

That makes it not a bad game. Just not what some people might have expected or hoped for.

Maybe Xenonauts 2 will be that game, who knows.

 

[ChaDargo]

I wonder if Xenonauts 2 is also going to make it simpler. Xeno 1 had very low sales compared to nuXcom 1 and nuXcom 2.

You're comparing an Indie with AAA budgeted games with big marketing cannons.

And yes for modern audience it is too complex. It is a wonder they even wanted to play a "slow" turn based game.

For modern <pseudo-casual mainstream> audience for sure. Original Sin 1/2 prove that there is still a vast and profitable market for "good" turn based games.

"Fire Emblem: Awakening global sales near 2 million"
"On January 3, 2012, Team Meat announced on Twitter that the game [Super Meat Boy] had surpassed 1,000,000 sales."
"Dark Souls has sold 2,828,000 units worldwide. Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition ("with Artorias of the Abyss") has sold 2,765,000 units worldwide"
"In its first month on sale, StarCraft II sold a total of three million copies worldwide. As of December 2010, the game has sold nearly 4.5 million units."

Obviously not what you can call comparable to XCOM, but these aren't casual/easy/simple games and they aren't the only ones who sell over a million copies (and yes, I know FO4 sold 14.5mil and that the NFL is bigger than the US Chess Federation and that everyone and their granny goes to Marvel movies...)

I don't think the issue is merely dumbing down the game for the masses, despite how many people keep saying that. Like Shog-goth said, there's a market, a profit, for creating complex/difficult games. There's a lot of factors that go into including or removing features, designing complexity vs designing simplicity, etc., and it's not so simple as "THEY'RE WHORES I TELL YOU!"

Not to mention... can anyone be that certain of how "dumb" PP is going to be? Not that I don't have my reservations, in particular regarding the look and feel of the game. But for me... I disliked the feel and graphics (consolitis?) of Nucom, regardless of its simplifying the mechanics of the game, hence that being my only problem thus far. I guess I'm just not seeing a lot of evidence of the game being a dumb pile of mass-marketed shit, or maybe I'm not understanding the arguments =\

 

[Grotesque]

Still does not make it half the audience.

"English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?"

All of this wailing and gnashing of teeth serves really no purpose

Well, I hope the devs can read/speak English way better than the retard above and take to heart the "wailing and gnashing" in the comments sections of online gaming magazines.

 

[ChaDargo]

Still does not make it half the audience.

"English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?"

All of this wailing and gnashing of teeth serves really no purpose

Well, I hope the devs can read/speak English way better than the retard above and take to heart the "wailing and gnashing" in the comments sections of online gaming magazines.

Just in case...

 

[Perkel]

Well you need money for a living.

So does everyone on Earth.
Respect is something you earn while doing something out of ordinary.

Him making Nuxcom clone and bringing nothing to it (it looks like a direct clone) doesn't generate respect just by virtue of doing it.

HE could earn it if PP will be a fucking amazing game despite being clone, which could happen.

 

[PanteraNera]

https://www.facebook.com/PhoenixPointGame/

reactions to PC Gamer Weekender Video on the official PP site on FB:

Kuba Keyman They will tell you it is not. That it is a brand new totally different game... Well.... watch some clips, use your brain and make your own opinion.
Mine is : little upgraded Xcom2, more like a deep mod than totally different game. Devs just want to sell their product so they'll tell you everything you wanna hear - just give them your money.
Wait, watch, be patient but dont expect too much of it I'm afraid....

Kris Williams Built on XCOM2 engine?
Phoenix Point No. This is built from the ground up in Unity.
Kris Williams Mechanics and UI look very similar is all.

Eurrikke Edward Oh man i hopeit has better rng mechanics tho. Enemies critting me at 30% hit chance and me missing 90% chance shots can be really annoying

:D

Phoenix Point = XCOM ?
dafuq?

Khayven Thought I hope this is gonna be good than Xcom 2 WOTC

Thong Nguyen High hope for this one, cinematic kill need to be improved though

:D

Levente Rózsa I'm a bit disappointed in the heavy gunner class, looks almost the same as xcoms boring three barreled gun guys...

Tomi Virtanen Looks really similar to recent xcom games. Both good and bad. Hope there is more under the hood(content) than those games.

Peter Haugaard Whats the difference between this game and Xcom? The story is almost the same the gameplay seems almost the same... no offence its probably a good game but I dont see anything new.

Ste Rex It looks hugely similar to the recent xcom games, could easily be confused for them, however I enjoyed them and some more play of a similar vein is still welcome. Not pre ordering though, nothing personal but I never pre order as a rule

Sarubenko Anton Really... Thats what i've preordered? Another Xcom like copy paste game, just with some maybe fixed physiks. Different ragdolls and story? Guys why the fuck do you make classes with no customizable equipment? Rember good old UFO games!!! Thats what you are doing is bullshit. Fast and comics like children graphics. Custimization only on skins nad thats all. This upsets me so much.... I ve lost my trust in you. And I am going to make a very negativ review on steam if you bring in some microtransaction shit or sometihng like avatar projekt time limits in the game.

Nedelin Dimov With all due respect, ATM I don't see much difference from xcom games. I like the willpower points and large boss fights. But the rest feels like xcom re-skins.

Understand it's pre alpha. I would like not to see character classes pre-designed and have freedom to customise every single soldier. Like in the old games.

 

[Mazisky]

You butthurt hardcore guys can't understand that there is a Huge middleground where people liked both original Ufo defense or Ja2 and Nuxcoms. Those will like the game either it will be a nuxcom clone or something deeper.

personally i'll buy any xcom-like game because there are few titles out there and we need more. So i'll support it in any case.