Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[santino27]

No idea what you people are on about. Magic as a metaphysical concept in PoE is fine imo, the problem is the inability of the writers to write anything of value. Well, the other problem is the uselessness of the majority of spells in this franchise. I fired up PoE1 yesterday to try to force myself through some of act 3 to get my story talents and to continue with WM2, and I noticed how few spells I actually use with all the spellcasting classes. Wizard has the most diversity of useful spells, Priest is in the middle, and Druid has 3ish spells that are useful. Druid is really shit in this franchise tbh and that's disappointing, since Druid is one of my go-to classes. It feels more like a watered down Wizard than a commander/disciple of nature.

I also noticed a lot of the spells being samey and there really is no difference between using one over the other, it's only flavor.

I kind of think you and FreeKaner are approaching the same issue from different angles. He's seeing that JES went all-in on his usual 'explain everything in as boring and clinical a manner as possible' approach with the magic system and is blaming that for the fact that POE magic feels rote and boring and non-magical. You're seeing that both the weak writing and lack of variety and interest in the actual spells makes the magic in POE boring and non-magical. The truth is probably somewhere in between... there is often value in leaving some things unexplained (or even better, unexplainable), and yet that mystery/interest could have been injected at the narrative level by more competent writers while still leaving the gameplay mechanics fully defined.

(Oh and Delterius is writing poems in Codex forum post format)

 

[Delterius]

Then where is this line drawn?
Why enter into any endeavour if not to discover new unknowns? Do these new mysteries have less value?
Why make any attempt to analyze anything deeper than what can be seen and grasped?
Why even ask "why?"

you must understand

that we are not discussing our world

this one Unpenetrable simulation that is shared by all

but rather of worlds of our own world's making

and therein lies the dif ference

in a world of magic, of man's own imagination

the why is a means for the very same yet a completely new why

can't you see?

once the game has ended and the discovery is done, one is meant to look for new whys

for new games

a game is only a game for as long as you cannot yet game it

otherwise its but a puppetry, of man's own design for man's own humiliation

consider: a puzzle

a little box of infinite possibilities until the answers can be found

what use is there for a puzzle that is already answered?

the stemlord cares not, for he wallows in the self-made pity of fake scientism

he measures not the means for man to reach the stars, but only the means for man to solo fucking pillars of eternity

and worse still

sawyer is the bringer of that darkness

magic is mystery and beast

mastery of magic is to know that its heart is fickle

but our sad miserable art cannot yet invoke this ideal in its Form

those who are unfools know this, and seek instead the perpetual wonderment of new magics to learn

those who know not, they make sports out of games knowing not that all that they are is but simple tweaks of ancient truths long since discovered

and to them, to these stemlords the only words left are found in the mouths of masters



THE CAT HAS YOUR PIPE COMBATFAGS

 

[Lawntoilet]

Then where is this line drawn?
Why enter into any endeavour if not to discover new unknowns? Do these new mysteries have less value?
Why make any attempt to analyze anything deeper than what can be seen and grasped?
Why even ask "why?"

you must understand

that we are not discussing our world

this one Unpenetrable simulation that is shared by all

but rather of worlds of our own world's making

and therein lies the dif ference

in a world of magic, of man's own imagination

the why is a means for the very same yet a completely new why

can't you see?

once the game has ended and the discovery is done, one is meant to look for new whys

for new games

a game is only a game for as long as you cannot yet game it

otherwise its but a puppetry, of man's own design for man's own humiliation

consider: a puzzle

a little box of infinite possibilities until the answers can be found

what use is there for a puzzle that is already answered?

the stemlord cares not, for he wallows in the self-made pity of fake scientism

he measures not the means for man to reach the stars, but only the means for man to solo fucking pillars of eternity

and worse still

sawyer is the bringer of that darkness

magic is mystery and beast

mastery of magic is to know that its heart is fickle

but our sad miserable art cannot yet invoke this ideal in its Form

those who are unfools know this, and seek instead the perpetual wonderment of new magics to learn

those who know not, they make sports out of games knowing not that all that they are is but simple tweaks of ancient truths long since discovered

and to them, to these stemlords the only words left are found in the mouths of masters



THE CAT HAS YOUR PIPE COMBATFAGS

I see now where the disconnect lay. Consider me unfooled.

 

[FreeKaner]

One interesting note about magic in Pillars lore is that it's not restricted solely to spells, but physical feats as well. Technically when a Fighter uses a knock-down ability, he's utilizing his soul power.

Thanks for explanation Sawyer, but if everything is magical then nothing is magical, it's just physics at that point.

 

[Lacrymas]

You might ask the question of "why do souls have magical power and how does it work?" and we'll still be back to not knowing the origin/workings of magic. Fighters using soul magic to knock-down is stupid.

 

[Crichton]

I finally finished this (played off and on for months; I think it eventually topped out at ~120 hours; OB was releasing expansion content faster than I was playing). I Completed Beast of Winter but only did a couple fights in Seeker, Slayer, Survivor. I rolled a mountain dwarf Cleric (Devoted Fighter (flail) / Priest (Eothas) and pretty much just used Eder (fighter), Xoti (priest), Pallegina (paladin) and Aloth (wizard); good party for dealing with spirits, but seemingly not so hot otherwise. For BoW, I swapped Aloth for Vatnir (took some getting used to). Like Storm of Zehir before it, I liked dicking around on the world map and finding things in odd corners; and the same sozzy things that bugged other people (easy combat, small dungeons) weren't as big a turnoff for me. I liked this one a lot better than Pillars 1, raising hopes for Pillars 3 but I'm not just sure we'll see one seeing how lousy sales were. That said, still a bunch of bizarre design decisions.



Good Things:

- I like all the new character development options; excellent additions for a game with full-party creation
- I never liked the health/endurance split and don't miss it
- Improved Factions/setting
- In general, I approve of dumping all the per-rest "resource management" bullshit and just making everything per encounter
- Sea shanties
- very nice artwork
- Despite issues with the writing, still some good companion dialog from Eder every now and again.
- Solve problems however you want; sick of NPC shit, just kill them all, you can loot the quest items.
- Boarding actions

Irritants:

- I thought the companions were the real high point of PoE writing and I thought that was a huge disappointment here. Eder used to be Joe Cool and now he turns into a nervous Nellie far too often. Pallegina used to be a good person trying hard to do right by everyone and now she's a Vallian blackshirt (really, just put Mussolini in blackface and stick a feather headdress on him). I'll admit that I actually liked Aloth better in this one but don't get me started on the new companions; Xoti was the only one I could tolerate. Who is asking for all this "romance" bullshit in games anyway? It never works; total waste of resources.

- The whole "Chasing Eothas" plot hook doesn't work. It's not interesting, the tie-in to the first game is unnecessary, the conversations you have with the gods are universally shit. The game also doesn't deal well with Eothas loyalists, there just aren't enough options to say "I'm with Eothas on this one, based on history, he probably has our best interest at heart"; when the ship crew asks why we're sailing around the Deadfire, even as a priest of Eothas, there was no option to tell them that we're here to help Eothas with whatever he's cooking up. They should have just dropped the whole thing and had the game being about people scrambling for some super-magic thingamajig in the ruins of Ukaizo.

- Despite dropping a bunch of "resource management" shit from the combat, they felt compelled to add it to the world map. Why do I have to pay a tax (-43 gp in wages .... -43 gp in wages ... -43 gp in wages ...) for dicking around on the world map? I like dicking around on the world map! Storm of Zehir gave me money for dicking around on the world map! This is just like the "no making money off the keep" taxes from PoE; why punish people for playing your game? WTF is wrong with you Sawyer?

- The ship combat minigame is bullshit, just a put a checkbox in settings somewhere that says "skip ship combat, go directly to boarding action", give the fucking '1' key a break.

- The ending; WTF. I fight my way to Eothas and this is the ensuring conversation:

Watcher: Do you think you could do something for all these poor bastards stuck in Limbo after you break the Wheel?
Eothas: Hmm, despite being a superhuman divine strategist, I never thought about that part. You know what? just because you asked, I'll create Heaven for them to chill in while we figure something out. Good eye there, kith.

 

[Mazisky]

I like Deadfire simply because they made day\night cycles and dynamic weather unlike Larian with the "too expensive" reasons. Also, more languages support than cheap Larian jews.

Obsidian are good devs, they make mistakes but the put a lot of passion in their games. i wish them the best

 

[FreeKaner]

Tyranny is a game that Obsidian did and that's different, passionate and feels interesting to explore, it's also thoroughly explained but still has mystery to it, where knowledge needs to be unveiled and is not served. It's also extremely unfinished and ends abruptly, as well as being very mismarketed and misintroduced. AoD also captures this feeling very well.

PoE is a checklist assembly line product. There is no passion in it.

 

[2house2fly]

If there is no passion in it and they just ticked off a checklist then why doesn't the game have a crowd-pleasing main quest where you battle an evil villain?

 

[FreeKaner]

If there is no passion in it and they just ticked off a checklist then why doesn't the game have a crowd-pleasing main quest where you battle an evil villain?

It's not the checklist they checked. I am not accusing the game of trying to cater to lowest common denominator, but they had an idea of a crowd in head.

 

[Lacrymas]

DA2 has an overarching plot, it's Hawke's life in Kirkwall. Probably the most experimental and interesting Bioware have ever been. Even it fell into the trap of staging a climactic fight at the end of some acts, though, like with what's-her-face, the Templar commander. She's a great example of over-vigilance turning into witch hunts and paranoia, and the climactic fight with her was unnecessary and butchering her character at the same time by going "oh, she was influenced by the idol". DA2 was full of "crowd-pleasers" like that, yet it was a financial disaster. I'm not sure the story in it is entirely to blame for that. And I'm also not sure PoE2's main story is to blame for its financial abyss.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[2house2fly]

PoE2's story has nothing to do with it flopping, because you have to see the story to have an opinion on it and PoE2 underperformed from day one

 

[FreeKaner]

PoE2's story has nothing to do with it flopping, because you have to see the story to have an opinion on it and PoE2 underperformed from day one

This is not the sales thread, fam. We are discussing why dumpsterfire doesn't have any charm.

 

[vortex]

So, why Deadfire doesn't have charm like P:K does?
Is Deadfire fantastical enough?

 

[2house2fly]

This is not the sales thread, fam. We are discussing why dumpsterfire doesn't have any charm.

Weird thing to discuss, because it has a ton of charm

 

[Safav Hamon]

Deadfire has overwhelmingly positive user reviews. It's doing something right.

 

[glass blackbird]

DA2 has an overarching plot, it's Hawke's life in Kirkwall. Probably the most experimental and interesting Bioware have ever been. Even it fell into the trap of staging a climactic fight at the end of some acts, though, like with what's-her-face, the Templar commander. She's a great example of over-vigilance turning into witch hunts and paranoia, and the climactic fight with her was unnecessary and butchering her character at the same time by going "oh, she was influenced by the idol". DA2 was full of "crowd-pleasers" like that, yet it was a financial disaster. I'm not sure the story in it is entirely to blame for that. And I'm also not sure PoE2's main story is to blame for its financial abyss.

You don't understand the term overarching plot. That means there exists a single story that is in fact associated with seemingly unassociated events: i.e. the same great evil behind everything. DA2 is opposite. It is about nuanced interaction between groups and the evolution of that interaction into a story. Opposite of overarching. It's just that its shittily executed.

The funniest thing about Dragon Age 2 is that they were originally going to have the final boss be whoever ran the side you didn't pick, a sensible decision, but then the higher-ups decided the endgame needed more bosses. So they awkwardly made it so you have to fight them both for literally no reason.

 

[Roguey]

If there is no passion in it and they just ticked off a checklist then why doesn't the game have a crowd-pleasing main quest where you battle an evil villain?

Jowh wanted it both ways. He was willing to compromise on a lot, but the main quest was where he drew his line.

 

[Lawntoilet]

This is not the sales thread, fam. We are discussing why dumpsterfire doesn't have any charm.

Weird thing to discuss, because it has a ton of charm

There are charming things in it - the autistic Goldpact Knight, the sea shanties, being a pirate and committing piracy in general - but I don't find it to be nearly as charming overall as Kingmaker. Deadfire is divided between trying to be a serious and thematic storyfag game like MotB (without the writing to support that) and being a more lowbrow pulp pirate adventure. This was a problem in PoE1 as well (except replace "pirate" with "Baldur's Gate") and Deadfire strikes a better balance overall, except the main plot is very retarded. Companion interactions are also overall very shallow and not very charming, which is a shame because this is one area where I thought PoE did pretty well.
Kingmaker on the other hand is unashamed of being a pulp adventure, as classic D&D tends to be. They created fun scenarios and populated them with charming characters who tend to develop through your interactions with them. The writing seems like it emerged from the question "what would make a fun game and a cool story" and the narrative themes evolved naturally from that, rather than "how can I build a game around an exploration of these themes."
The second question can result in good games (and Obsidian did that several times), but only if the writing talent is there, and it isn't anymore.
TL;DR
Deadfire tries to be too smart and can't into smart writing, Kingmaker tries to be fun and succeeds

 

[santino27]

 

[Tenebris]

The Steel Garrote is a feared paladin order dedicated to Woedica. They work with powerful individuals and business interest to hunt down those who violate contracts, especially if said contracts were endorsed by a priestess of the Exiled Queen. They were founded in the Aedyr Empire and are active throughout the region - branching out as far as the Dyrwood and the Vailian Republics.

Did they seriously just copy and paste the Gamepedia entry for Steel Garrote...

 

[fantadomat]

The fuck,people are still trying to find logic and consistency in this stupid world. It is a mess,random devs throwing random shit in it without any care for world building and in game laws.

 

[Safav Hamon]

The update gives Ydwin a dialogue tree and new dialogue if Beast of Winter is installed.

 

[Safav Hamon]