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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

Discussion in 'Obsidian Entertainment' started by TT1, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. AW8 Arcane

    AW8
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    The silent majority doesn't use Twitter.

    You'll see. You'll all see.
     
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  2. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    You also have a fraction of the spell slots you do in the IE games, though, and that's my main issue. Like Prima Junta said, you do use quite a lot of your abilities in combat so you'll just have to spam rest for no reason after 1-2 battles. What this challenge actually does is reduce the value of good food because it won't last that long due to the rest spamming.
     
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  3. Dyspaire Augur

    Dyspaire
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    Well said. Deadfire 5.0 turn-based is the most fun I've had with an isometric crpg since the release of BGII. 20 years.

    Is the story the best ever? No. But it's totally find for what it is, and you covered the pros and cons of the game about as well as one can.

    It is a lot of fun from the get-go, and I spent more nights last fall completely engrossed in a crpg than I have in a long, long time. Such good dungeon-delving, great and interesting cities, and secrets, so many secrets...

    My dream would be for that engine to get released into the wild for people to work with. So much potential there. Prettiest isometric engine too, easily.

    Cheers.
     
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  4. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Oh God, please don't unleash more of Unity upon the world.
     
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  5. Hóngwèibīng Arcane Vatnik

    Hóngwèibīng
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    The more RPGs, the better - regardless if you'd personally enjoy them or not.
     
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  6. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I'm talking about the engine.
     
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  7. vortex Fabulous Optimist

    vortex
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    Just delete 99.23% of all loading screens and Deadfire would be smash hit.
     
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  8. Lady_Retard █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

    Lady_Retard
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    Get an SSD. Without it, the game is pretty much unplayable (3 seconds load vs. 20-30 seconds).
     
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  9. Dyspaire Augur

    Dyspaire
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    I hear you. I know how poorly-optimized Unity is.

    And I also don't know how user-friendly the Deadfire engine is on top of that. I've heard it's a bitch to create and implement background art for any isometric engine.

    But, in 10 years the poorly-optimized Deadfire/Unity engine will not be an issue, and I would love to see what the community could do with it anyway.

    I look at the IE modding community, or what those Circle-of-Eight guys did with ToEE, and I would love to see what would happen, is all I can say.

    2c
     
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  10. Lady_Retard █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

    Lady_Retard
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    Are there any good campaign mods for ToEE?
     
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  11. taviow Magister

    taviow
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    Isn't turn based half assed? Is it actually good playing the game on TB mode?
     
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  12. Bester ⚰️☠️⚱️ Patron Vatnik

    Bester
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    It's not gonna happen because PoE is a shit game and nobody wants to mod it.

    Making an area is not just creating background images. There's also a height map, a nav mesh, maybe some hacks for light and animated grass and water, and who knows what else, all of them in god knows what format. Nobody's gonna bang their head against the wall for months to figure this shit out.
     
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  13. Dyspaire Augur

    Dyspaire
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    I'm not sure if Keep on the Borderlands counts as a campaign, and even if it did, it's only okay at best. What the Co8 folks did do, is mostly fix and enhance a game that was pretty broken even after the last official patch.

    And they did it with no source code. It's a shame that Temple+ and the source code took so long to come out. (I think I have my facts right here, no?)

    It would still take some supremely-talented artists to create original backgrounds, new character models, etc... write new stories.

    But if you're going to do it, why not do it in the prettiest isometric engine ever? And one that has some surprisingly great game mechanics already baked in.

    There's still a lot of those Gibberlings Three/Circle-of-Eight/Sorcerer's Place folks out there, plus a whole new generation of new gamers/modders.

    The more Dungeons and Dragons, Forgotten Realms-ish, isometric crpgs there are out there, the happier I am... is all I can say.

    Cheers.
     
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  14. Dwarvophile Savant

    Dwarvophile
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  15. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    I think that the experience of casting spells, getting crits, etc is more 'fun' on TB because you get to experience the 'moment' in a more singular manner rather than it being lost in a cacophony of actions.

    However, the crucial flaw is that DF was built as a RTWP game and so its per-encounter format bites itself in the ass hard here. Namely, casting the same old buffs over and over and over at the start of each combat gets old. REALLY OLD. Casting offensive spells is always fun, but without the AI gambit system in place to take care of the busywork, casting stuff like mage buffs or fighter buffs repeatedly in an automated fashion... I just got tired of doing that over and over.

    That said if you tend to avoid those type of builds then you might be able to enjoy it more.
     
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  16. Hóngwèibīng Arcane Vatnik

    Hóngwèibīng
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    Is dexterity still a dump stat in the current TB build, Yosharian?
     
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  17. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    yeah, we need more UE4 games with constant stuttering due to texture streaming
    only new game I've played in recent memory that didn't run like shit was the new far cry game
     
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  18. Prime Junta Self-Ejected Patron Vatnik

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    It was half-assed when I first tried it, in particular it was LOLeasy. Not anymore. It's quite good really, the system of debuffs/counters comes into its own when it's not a continuous fireworks show. I like it more on TB now than I ever did in RTwP.

    It has its issues of course (I agree with Yosharian that there's way too much rote buffing now, for example), but it's up there with D:OS (1, not 2, which is a disaster) as far as TB gameplay goes IMO.
     
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  19. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    It is half assed. For some stupid reason they introduced Turn system which makes Two handed swords as fast as two handing daggers. If you would remove Turns and leave only rounds it would be great system.
     
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  20. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    It is half assed. Action Speed is one of the most important parameters in RTwP, but Initiative matters very little in TB. Might as well wear the heaviest plate, dump Dex, use slowest weapon/shield stance mods. Cast the slowest spells.

    They went the lazy 1 action per Universal round approach (plus free actions), when they should have made it individual initiative /personal rounds based. It could have been perfect then.

    Plus a number of enemies are notably bullet spongy, which sticks out FAR MORE in TB.

    What I found disappointing was that Interrupts didn't play nearly as big role in TB as I have hoped. You need to land one after an enemy starts casting and before he finishes - and you just don't get an action in this narrow time frame very often (at least when it matters, like an enemy casting an Arcane Damper).


    That said, the TB does have its perks. Combat is far better organized and controlled. You follow buff/debuff effects and their durations much better. And yeah, you appreciate the impact of each individual action much more.
     
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  21. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    Another thing. Graze system sucks overall but it sucks ^2 in TB. Which kind is worsened by bullet sponges like Haplo said. I'd rather hit 1 time in 3 than hit 3 times for shitty graze. It just doesn't feel good.
     
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  22. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Why do grazes suck exactly?
     
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  23. Yosharian Magister

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    Yes, Dexterity basically doesn't exist outside of maybe some niche uses to get off spells before your enemy, for 99% of builds it serves almost no purpose
     
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  24. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    Yeah it's very bad especially in POTD
     
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  25. Prime Junta Self-Ejected Patron Vatnik

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    A'ight, a few more thoughts after just finishing it. PotD, TB. Played through all of the expansions. Made Concelhaut a very happy lich.

    - Agree with Haplo above about the bullet-sponginess of the bosses. Late game boss battles especially take ages, even if you're not doing anything wrong (i.e., you get sufficient Pen and counter their debuffs). If your dudes have 250 HP and bosses have thousands it just feels stupid. There are better ways to make things challenging.
    - The game is too big for its own good. There are some pretty to really good fights and maps and quests in it, but it also gets repetitive. A lot hangs on how well the opening goes; muff it and you'll likely get stunlocked and then wiped, get it right and the opposite is true. This means that there are a few stock tactics that work, and while it was fun to discover them, just applying them repeatedly isn't all that much fun. Also I hit level 20 ages ago and just ignored a lot of stuff.
    - TB is just fine. Yes the balance is different than in RTwP -- as in, Dex is a dump stat -- but it's still good, you just need to build the parties differently. I also disagree with Haplo about interrupts: I had an arbalest on my MC and as many Interrupt-y abilities on everybody else, and used them to whittle down Concentration on the most dangerous enemies pre-emptively. However there were a bunch of bosses that had immunity to Interrupts and that felt a bit cheaty.
    - Overall: yeah much better than I remembered. It was a fun romp in a really pretty and colourful setting. It's not a classic for the ages but it's a solid game. It is however pretty far diverged from its IE engine roots so I'm not sure exactly what I'd want to compare it to. Purely personally I do still rank BG2 a fair bit above it, but I liked it a lot more than BG1, and the IWDs as pure dungeon crawls are different enough that you can't really compare. Well worth the time.
     
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