Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

Athelas Well, Heart of Winter wasn't a dungeon crawl any more than the rest of IWD was.

And since the game already has a megadungeon, I doubt the expansion will be more of that

As for Throne of Bhaal, I'd prefer an actual sequel over a ToB-style "expansion-as-sequel".

 

[Athelas]

I'm not sure I see that happening, PoE + expansion will have a much higher level cap than BG1.

 

[coffeetable]

I'm rly disappointed that as it turns out, the expansion is more like a DLC than a Throne of Bhaal-like expansion. The cost of the expansion was $15 and the base game $15 or $20, so I assumed it was a continuation of the story, not a Watcher's Keep type of thing... That was seriously misleading.

are you taking this from

It's something connected to the main game but its own separate storyline, and you take your normal characters into it. We're in the very early stages of planning it.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not sure I see that happening, PoE + expansion will have a much higher level cap than BG1.

Don't see what happening? A sequel?

 

[Athelas]

A sequel where you import the character from PoE 1.

 

[Infinitron]

Well, I didn't say anything about importing a character

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

I'm rly disappointed that as it turns out, the expansion is more like a DLC than a Throne of Bhaal-like expansion. The cost of the expansion was $15 and the base game $15 or $20, so I assumed it was a continuation of the story, not a Watcher's Keep type of thing... That was seriously misleading.

are you taking this from

It's something connected to the main game but its own separate storyline, and you take your normal characters into it. We're in the very early stages of planning it.

I took it from the fact that they're making a "point of no return" save game before the final battle or something, and when the dlc comes out, you load up that save and go to the dlc area... Means it's orthogonal to the main story, like Watcher's Keep. I didn't mean that it's a dungeon crawler, cause I don't consider Watcher's Keep as one. I mean that it's a separate thing and that it's disconnected from the game, and that's disappointing.

 

[ushas]

BTW new build vid: Dual Sabre Barbarian

That's a lot. I hope total damage on char screen will finally work next beta. Almost half of the video is counting, not that it's not providing dramatic effect

May I ask why Sabres specifically?

Noticed, you are enchanting weapons against humanoids. So different armors are to be expected, I guess. In that regard there are two one-handed weapons each providing -3DR bypass: stiletto and mace, which stack with Vulnerable attack -> -8DR bypass, I think. Dunno, whether it's applied in Carnage.

Now I know completely nothing about speeds of these three weapons compare to each other, and they are also of different damage types. When assuming the same attack speed, stilettos have quiet low base damage compare to Sabres, but numbers for Maces are not much different (base 13-18 Crush vs. 14-21 Slash), so I wonder whether their DR bypass can make it up for them... Do you think Double Crushing Barbarian has any chance?

Looted in that encounter: from Medreth Leather armor (~11DR Slash, 8DR Crush), from others several Brigandines (~10DR slash, 12.5DR Crush) and Fine Mail (~15.5DR Slash, 6.5DR Crush). Also wondering what would stone beetles say

 

[Jezal_k23]

I'm also hoping it's more on the style of TotSC. That would be pretty cool.

 

[Athelas]

I took it from the fact that they're making a "point of no return" save game before the final battle or something, and when the dlc comes out, you load up that save and go to the dlc area... Means it's orthogonal to the main story, like Watcher's Keep. I didn't mean that it's a dungeon crawler, cause I don't consider Watcher's Keep as one. I mean that it's a separate thing and that it's disconnected from the game, and that's disappointing.

Uh, Watcher's Keep was integrated into the game. What they're describing is the opposite - more like how Throne of Bhaal worked (or to use an Obsidian example, Mask of the Betrayer). From this, you draw the weird conclusion that the expansion will be like Watcher's Keep and then complain about it not being more like Throne of Bhaal.

I didn't mean that it's a dungeon crawler, cause I don't consider Watcher's Keep as one.

It's a dungeon crawler - what else could it be classified as? Though I think the quest surrounding the secret of Watcher's Keep is actually BG2's finest hour, writing-wise.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

No, Throne of Bhaal didn't require you to have a "point of no return" save before you went to Hell with Irenicus. PoE does, so you can go a their version of Watcher's Keep which is a completely separate thing.

 

[Athelas]

No, Throne of Bhaal didn't require you to have a "point of no return" save before you went to Hell with Irenicus. PoE does, so you can go a their version of Watcher's Keep which is a completely separate thing.

I think you mean Shadows of Amn. And what does an auto-save for convenience's sake tell you about the kind of expansion that will follow? If it was a non-plot-related dungeon crawler, why would there be a point of no return?

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

It tells me that it will require me to load up that save to go there, because it's not a continuation of the main plot. How many times do I have to say it lol.

 

[Athelas]

It tells me that it will require me to load up that save to go there

There is no difference - Throne of Bhaal just did this automatically.

 

[coffeetable]

A sequel where you import the character from PoE 1.

[Are you looking at save imports for a sequel too?]

JS: We'd very much like that. People like the idea of taking their characters on a long, epic journey. Even going back to the classic RPGs, it was nice to bring your character in and keep going with it.

 

[coffeetable]

also ToB was BG3 in all but name. treating it as an expansion is unfair on every other expansion ever made

 

[Athelas]

[Are you looking at save imports for a sequel too?]

JS: We'd very much like that.

Wanting something is very different from actually implementing it. After the massive disappointment of the Mass Effect trilogy, you'd think RPG developers would be cautious about attempting something like that.

Besides, Sawyer would never allow for the imbalance of players beginning the sequel at wildly varying levels.

 

[AwesomeButton]

also ToB was BG3 in all but name. treating it as an expansion is unfair on every other expansion ever made

 

[prodigydancer]

treating it as an expansion is unfair on every other expansion ever made

I don't think ToB was much bigger than DA:Awakening.

After the massive disappointment of the Mass Effect trilogy

ME trilogy was bound to revolve around Shepard with or without imports and the disappointment (ME3 ending) had nothing to do with how they worked. Anyway, what BioWare does these days is mostly importing world state which isn't very interesting in my opinion.

But if I won't be able to import my character in PoE2, I'll be very disappointed.

 

[Athelas]

ME trilogy was bound to revolve around Shepard with or without imports and the disappointment (ME3 ending) had nothing to do with how they worked. Anyway, what BioWare does these days is mostly importing world state which isn't very interesting in my opinion.

People were upset because the ending ignored all the choices they made in the trilogy. When you have three games worth of build-up, delivering on that in a way that satisfies your players is obviously much harder. It says a lot that the ending sparked so big an outcry from the same fans who otherwise love Bioware's less than stellar writing.

 

[prodigydancer]

People were upset because the ending ignored all the choices they made in the trilogy.

People were upset because the ending was a total deus ex machina completely disconnected with anything that happened before. If ME games didn't have save imports BioWare could still put exactly the same ending in ME3 and it would be just as disappointing because it would still be a deus ex machina.

Credit where credit is due: BioWare managed to surprise everyone. It just turned out a bad kind of surprise.

 

[Athelas]

Plenty of RPG's introduce deus ex machinae at the last minute, or have an ending that's little more than 'save world from ancient evil, everyone happy'. The unprecedented rage over the ME3 ending was the result of a trilogy worth of deflated buildup.

 

[Bleed the Man]

People were upset because the ending ignored all the choices they made in the trilogy.

People were upset because the ending was a total deus ex machina completely disconnected with anything that happened before. If ME games didn't have save imports BioWare could still put exactly the same ending in ME3 and it would be just as disappointing because it would still be a deus ex machina.

Credit where credit is due: BioWare managed to surprise everyone. It just turned out a bad kind of surprise.

If they were angry about the Deus Ex Machina ending, why weren't they angry at the use of a Deus Ex Machina as the main plot point and constructing the entire story around it?

I lost hope on giving credit to Biodrones a long time ago. They weren't angry at the ending because it was a nonsensical Deus Ex Machina or that the previous choices didn't matter one bit, or that the only difference between endings were the color of the explosion, they were angry because they couldn't get an ending where Shepard lived happily ever after with his/her love interest. That's all the credit I'm able to give to Biodrones at this point.

 

[prodigydancer]

why weren't they angry at the use of a Deus Ex Machina as the main plot point and constructing the entire story around it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief
You can do anything you want as long as you don't throw it all out of the window at some arbitrary point like BioWare did.

 

[Bleed the Man]

why weren't they angry at the use of a Deus Ex Machina as the main plot point and constructing the entire story around it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief
You can do anything you want as long as you don't throw it all out of the window at some arbitrary point like BioWare did.

And that's exactly what they did with with me on Mars. "Oh, we have discovered blueprints of a super weapon that we believe can kill the Reapers". Completely out of the blue, without anything in previous games that point to something like this, and it's a completely stupid, cheap as hell, way to find something to be able to kill the reapers. Absolutely retarded, and waaaaaay worse than anything Bioware has ever come up, and in the previous ME they had something as bad as a "baby human reaper". And still, people in BSN didn't care, "the game was awesome till the ending, the ending ruined it!"

I stand by my assestment: "Muh romance!"