Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[MicoSelva]

The game is so unstable on my computer that I can't stand to play more than 30 minutes without being tired of the whole PoE expierience.

I bet you are glad you paid extra for this.

Spoiler

Anyone has a spare beta key? i need it now. ANYONE?

 

[Bubbles]

"Do I disarm this trap or step on it?" Decisions, decisions.

 

[Sensuki]

I am probably dying a bit inside every time I load up the game, but I'm doing it for the greater gud of glorious KKKODEXIA

 

[Duraframe300]

I am probably dying a bit inside every time I load up the game, but I'm doing it for the greater gud of glorious KKKODEXIA

lulz



I'm still waiting on the update. Will also give me perspective if and how concerned I should be.

Though I don't expect it this week anymore.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

I feel so good that I'm a storyfag and probably won't notice half of the mentioned issues in the final game even if they are not cleared.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I am probably dying a bit inside every time I load up the game, but I'm doing it for the greater gud of glorious KKKODEXIA

Having seen all the constructive threads you've made on the Obsidian forums.... you should probably be up there with Dengler in the credits

Spoiler

or at least some Doritos from their PR slush fund

 

[SuicideBunny]

I bet you are glad you paid extra for this.

people paid extra for it? i got it for free with the stuff i actually paid for...

 

[CyberP]

"Do I disarm this trap or step on it?" Decisions, decisions.

Mechanics – Traps and locks can be a problem for even the toughest adventurers draining their resources and maiming or killing those who are unfortunate enough to trigger an unseen floor plate. The mechanics skill makes it easier to open locks and find and disable traps. Aditionally any character can use the Mechanics skill to place traps of their own. The higher the athletics skill, the more accurate the trap. In conversations and scripted interactions, Mechanics can be used to activate or disable a variety of machines

The most important of decision would be the initial "Do I invest in Mechanics skill or do I not? Well, lets see, mechanics skill allows me to get MOAR xp by disarming traps! why do all the other skills not have this reward?"

 

[MicoSelva]

I bet you are glad you paid extra for this.

people paid extra for it? i got it for free with the stuff i actually paid for...

Do not mind me, I am just jealous of the people who have access to the beta and am trying to console myself by trolling.

 

[Sensuki]

If I had a spare key I'd give it to you but I didn't back Torment high enough I don't think?

 

[Bubbles]

"Do I disarm this trap or step on it?" Decisions, decisions.

Mechanics – Traps and locks can be a problem for even the toughest adventurers draining their resources and maiming or killing those who are unfortunate enough to trigger an unseen floor plate. The mechanics skill makes it easier to open locks and find and disable traps. Aditionally any character can use the Mechanics skill to place traps of their own. The higher the athletics skill, the more accurate the trap. In conversations and scripted interactions, Mechanics can be used to activate or disable a variety of machines

The most important of decision would be the initial "Do I invest in Mechanics skill or do I not? Well, lets see, mechanics skill allows me to get MOAR xp by disarming traps! why do all the other skills not have this reward?"

The other skills get you MOAR xp by passing skill checks in dialogue or in scripted interactions in the world. Why wouldn't you take those skills?

 

[imweasel]

Shit accuracy or bad roll means lower damage (graze). But my high Might (20) seems to compensate for low Dexterity (3). Dat BALANCE! You truly can't make a shit build, even if you wanted to. You can raise your attributes blindfolded. Wow. Such design. So ballanced.

When the attribute system in Dragon Age: Origins is better than what you designed, then something is seriously wrong and needs to be fixed.
(^ constructive criticism for Josh)

"A system in which everything is equally viable is indistinguishable from a system in which everything is shit."

(^ good post, also for my bro Josh)

 

[nikolokolus]

I keep trying to get into this beta to do some honest to god bug hunting, but the bugs find me first and grind everything to a halt.

Last playthrough (more or less similiar to my first two character attempts):
1. Start out, talk to some people, get some quests, get into a fight with the rogues by the bridge. No problems.
2. Try to enter Winfrith's, sell some stuff, save the game, try to exit. Screen goes black and says "Loading" in the bottom right hand corner for 20 minutes. Quit the game, re-load.
3. Shuffle inventory a bit, watch an item disappear when I drop it into my main character's first inventory slot. *sigh*
4. Exit Winfrith's shop, no interminable loading screen (huzzah!) go to Dyrford Crossing and start exploring/fighting. Try to loot a beetle carcass, shell disappears. *sigh*
5. Go to the NE part of the map, fight some wurms, try to loot their corpses by dropping items into a companion's slot, it works.
6. Go to the dragon egg area, get into a fight, now the main character won't move after I swapped my arquebus to a sword mid-fight. Save and re-load. *sigh*
7. Retrieve the dragon egg no problem, go back to the apothecarist to turn in the quest. Nothing happens. Check Journal and see no entries. Save and re-load. *sigh*
8. Check the journal and entries are back (huzzah!). Talk to the apothecarist again; no dice. check quest inventory and the dragon egg is gone. *sigh*

If the issues with disappearing inventory and journal items can get sorted in the next patch, then it might be a lot easier to get into a rhythm with and actually make some progress when it comes to identifying less obvious problems. Unfortunately right now it just feels like a waste of time to be creating new characters and starting new games when I know I'll get stopped cold by the same basic sort of problems every single time.

 

[Scruffy]

Ok, so, the few impressions i was able to gather while trying to play this for longer than ten minutes without it crashing.

The art direction is neat and pretty. Also, generic and soulless. I don't get any "I'm in this world here now" vibe, there's nothing... peculiar about the settings, it's just pretty flowers and trees. I know I'm supposed to get a IE games vibe, but i'm not. All i get is the idea that I'm in some generic fantasy village. But i guess i might grow into this after I'm able to play it without crashing when i open the map and double click on it, or whatever. Yes, I know it's a beta.

The combat is... underwhelming. Not bad per se, it just feels like a repetitive task. Assign a series of actions, wait for them to happen, repeat. If i compare it to the IE games, I'd say we're there. Pause, set up actions, watch them happen, repeat. Things improve when against multiple opponents.

What i would like is a more reactive system. in the IE games, before any big fight, you'd buff up and start casting something out of the line of sight of your enemies, generally, because you had scouted and you knew what was coming. This is a valid tactic, but i'd prefer something that forces you to make decisions on the spot and react to the threats, rather than some metagam-y combat pattern.

Skills that only work once per combat are p. great in this sense, because they force you to use them wisely. However, I think that more CHOICES AND CONSEQUENCES could be added if the system would work like this: You have, for example, learned five level 1 spells. However, you can only cast two of those per encounter. What will it be? a web-like spell to hinder your opponents? straight up damage burst? defense buff the group? give your companions a better chance to hit your opponents for the next three attacks? etc, etc.

The way it is, it's not like you actually have a lot of alternatives. You send the tank to soak up the damage, stay ready to heal him when necessary, and everyone else is just DPS. It would be a lot more fun if I could flank the battle and, for example, cast a fireball in the middle of the group, but that exposes me to being attacked by a couple of spiders or whatever it is i'm fighting. Instead, everything plays like a mmog: the tank aggroes, and everything else is just damage output. Heh.

It's not even a matter of AI really, enemies should randomly switch targets and pursue them, I know this leads to kiting, but frankly, even that would be more entertaining, and with target switch kiting wouldn't work either anyway.

I don't even know what I'm actually saying to be honest, but combat feels like some isometric version of every mmog ever, and that's boring. Scout area, send tank in front, heal tank, everyone else join in for dps. In a combat-centric game, this is shit.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Since you guys are suffering so much I decided to take the time and write up a big thank you to you all for testing the game. I'm sure you guys will do a good job fixing the game for me by the time it gets released. Bummer that you all had to pay extra sheckels to be QA, though.

 

[Emily]

The game is unsalvageable, design at its core is totally shit for a combat oriented game.

 

[Raghar]

Theres la bug with pretty much everything.

What I want to know is where the heck the QA was before "beta"? I mean I'm surprised half this stuff hasn't already been fixed from before. I'd understand a few things being screwed up that weren't noticable, but there's glaring bugs everywhere...

This is normal in game development, for this reason I don't like to show game before release. I have different problem, I tend to make them mostly bug free, so I have problems when someone introduces unexpectedly bugs. And considering what I make is quite reliable and optimized for speed, these bugs can be quite hard to track.

These who have shitload of bugs, tend to know how long it would take them to remove them. (For some reason they tends to be unable to make something they never did before. They tend to make excuses and have shitload of bugs.)

I like I learned SW engineering without highschool in garage games era. Game development has quite different engineering practices than standard SW engineering and PhDs tend to suck. You can see why they suck in practice during PoE beta.

 

[tuluse]

Skills that only work once per combat are p. great in this sense, because they force you to use them wisely. However, I think that more CHOICES AND CONSEQUENCES could be added if the system would work like this: You have, for example, learned five level 1 spells. However, you can only cast two of those per encounter. What will it be? a web-like spell to hinder your opponents? straight up damage burst? defense buff the group? give your companions a better chance to hit your opponents for the next three attacks? etc, etc.

But this is how casting works for wizards and priests.

It's not even a matter of AI really, enemies should randomly switch targets and pursue them, I know this leads to kiting, but frankly, even that would be more entertaining, and with target switch kiting wouldn't work either anyway.

You make a good point that enemies are too content to attack the first character they see, but if they just ran past, that would trigger AoOs.

 

[nikolokolus]

The game is unsalvageable, design at its core is totally shit for a combat oriented game.

For one thing I'm not sure I'd say it's a combat oriented game. The combat that is there has big problems but nothing I see as insurmountable . First of all they've got A LOT of work to do making it feel more responsive and providing better visual feeback for what is going on. I think one of the things that hurts it, is the low-oblique viewing angle vs. the higher oblique angle used in games like BG, IWD, et al. It makes it tough to get a feel for position, but that can't be changed at this point without major revisions. There's also an issue with characters not feeling distinctive enough against the background which is further exacerbated in combat when characters cluster/overlap each other in melee.

Off-hand suggestions: increase character models' contrast, increase character spacing a bit when they're engaged in melee, add hit reaction animations, tweak the speed of combat (the default speed feels "off" for lack of a better world) and provide better visual feedback for engagement. If they can get that stuff nailed down it might go a long ways to making the combat "feels" better.

 

[Infinitron]

It's not even a matter of AI really, enemies should randomly switch targets and pursue them, I know this leads to kiting, but frankly, even that would be more entertaining, and with target switch kiting wouldn't work either anyway.

You make a good point that enemies are too content to attack the first character they see, but if they just ran past, that would trigger AoOs.

I hope that Obsidian will put some effort into coding a beefy heuristic for determining when enemies should take the hit and break out of melee engagement.

 

[Scruffy]

But this is how casting works for wizards and priests.

yeah, but i don't feel like there's... enough stuff to do.

You make a good point that enemies are too content to attack the first character they see, but if they just ran past, that would trigger AoOs.

i guess you're right, all i'm saying is that it's like playing WOW, combat-wise, and i don't find that fun

 

[Grunker]

It's not even a matter of AI really, enemies should randomly switch targets and pursue them, I know this leads to kiting, but frankly, even that would be more entertaining, and with target switch kiting wouldn't work either anyway.

You make a good point that enemies are too content to attack the first character they see, but if they just ran past, that would trigger AoOs.

I hope that Obsidian will put some effort into coding a beefy heuristic for determining when enemies should take the hit and break out of melee engagement.

That a very optimistic hope. Systems are always more ambitious than the AI can handle, and Sawyer has made no efforts in his talks to give the sense that he is aware of this issue. Not that I know of any RPG designers who have ever done so.

 

[Infinitron]

That a very optimistic hope. Systems are always more ambitious than the AI can handle, and Sawyer has made no efforts in his talks to give the sense that he is aware of this issue. Not that I know of any RPG designers who have ever done so.

Well: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/415136

We believe that Engagement can give AI a clear "decision point" where they can evaluate the threat of their new status and choose the appropriate course of action.

So actually one intention of the melee engagement system was to enable better AI in the first place.

 

[Scruffy]

Question: am i being a whiny fag, or is combat actually boring? (I haven't read all the replies here but it seems more like combat is considered badly implemented rather than boring, and while bad implementation can be fixed, boredom can still happen with well implemented combat...)

 

[Blaine]

Why should they cater to another shitposter?

Royal prerogative.