Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Frusciante]

Clear from seeing this discussion between these posters at obsidian forums and Josh is that most people have no clue at all what they are talking/complaining about.

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

If my wizard is as equally good as my fighter with a sword, then that's a failure in game design. If my wizard does almost the same damage as my fighter, then what is the fighters' purpose?

But this is absolutely not the case in PoE. As Sensuki noted earlier, the accuracy bonus conferred on the fighter at level 1 is higher than the maximum bonus possible from maxing out dexterity. Meaning, no matter how gish-y your caster, his accuracy bonus would never be as high as level 1 fighter's.

 

[Abu Antar]

If my wizard is as equally good as my fighter with a sword, then that's a failure in game design. If my wizard does almost the same damage as my fighter, then what is the fighters' purpose?

But this is absolutely not the case in PoE. As Sensuki noted earlier, the accuracy bonus conferred on the fighter at level 1 is higher than the maximum bonus possible from maxing out dexterity. Meaning, no matter how gish-y your caster, his accuracy bonus would never be as high as level 1 fighter's.

He would still do enough damage with melee and still have his spells. I'm not saying he would be entirely equal to a fighter. But he does gain a damage bonus from might, both for his attacks and spells. Say you don't use the wizard in melee, you still get a damage bonus if you use long range weapons.

 

[Jaedar]

So I made a new character: ranger with animal companion. And holy shit is that thing op. The bear does more damage than anyone else in the party(probably comperable to rogue+fighter), and ranger does.... regular damage.

 

[undecaf]

My bear was apparently braindead because he just stood there watching, ignoring all commands and letting a beetle slowly gut it.

 

[Zed]

Frusciante
source?

If you adjusted the bonus scale for D&D's attribute system to go from -1 at 3 and +1 at 20, you would get the same outcome you're talking about, though -- and that would be a balance issue, not a fundamental mechanical issue. It may be that Might grants too little of a bonus from point to point, it may be that wizards' spells simply do so much damage that a low bonus doesn't have a large impact on their viability, or it could be something else.

his comparison with D&D is moot because the attributes are not weighted/exponentially stronger.
D&D scaled down would not be the same thing.

 

[undecaf]

source?

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67861-itemization-feels-bland/?p=1493223

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67467-no-bad-builds-a-failure-in-practice/?p=1493256

 

[Jaedar]

So I also used the mage some more since he worked this time. I have come to the conclusion that he's decent, but everything has very low range. Feels like you almost have to go battlemage, or wait until all the enemies are engaged to flank at will.

Combat is really unresponsive. Half the time clicking the ability buttons does nothing as far as I can tell. The ui doesn't seem to work if there's something interactive behind the button you want to click.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Frusciante]

Frusciante
source?

Obsidian forums. Found using: http://pedevtracker.azurewebsites.net/

his comparison with D&D is moot because the attributes are not weighted/exponentially stronger.
D&D scaled down would not be the same thing.

What do you mean by not weighted?

Also his point is that the PoE attribute system can either have a huge impact on gameplay or a trivial one just by tweaking the values. Just as D&D could have trivial attributes if you adjust the range of attribute bonusses.

 

[msxyz]

Interesting that Josh finally came to reply in one of beta threads. I'm happy he's closely follwing our criticism (although my doubts still remain)

 

[Frusciante]

Interesting that Josh finally came to reply in one of beta threads. I'm happy he's closely follwing our criticism (although my doubts still remain)

Apparently he only came back from his vacation yesterday.

At least that is what I gather from his twitter.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Frusciante]

Edit: Beaten by Infinitron

So who spent pages upon pages whining about PoE not having unique items?

 

[FeelTheRads]

That way if someone just wants to keep an item competitive and viable blah blah

He's fucking obsessed. OMG What if I can't kill the boss with that dagger from the first cave!!!?! Something needs to be done to fix this very serious issue with RPGs and possibly gaming in general!!!!

 

[Frusciante]

Personally, I don't believe that Might is overpowered, but I do think Dexterity could be improved a bit more. The difference between 10 and 20 Dex is 10 points of Accuracy, which is only equivalent (sort of -- not exactly due to how Grazes/Crits work) to +2 in D&D terms.

 

[Grunker]

What happened to "don't worry Grunker, the crafting system won't compete with other systems, it's just used for consumables"?

I even think it was Sawyer himself that said that to me via you posing the question Infinitron.

 

[Frusciante]

That way if someone just wants to keep an item competitive and viable blah blah

He's fucking obsessed. OMG What if I can't kill the boss with that dagger from the first cave!!!?! Something needs to be done to fix this very serious issue with RPGs and possibly gaming in general!!!!

Or maybe you are obsessed. Maybe just maybe he just wants to give players options to keep using a weapon they like. There might be people who love the fact that their sword from the beginning of the game is getting a history of it's own by using it the entire playthrough.

But sure if you want to twist this into an obsession by Sawyer go for it. But all it's doing is making you look like someone who is completely obsessed by a game designer.

 

[Darth Roxor]

there will be some unique items?

WOW THIS SOLVES ALL PROBLEMS ABOUT DIS GAEM THANK YOU GODS OF BALANCE

 

[Infinitron]

What happened to "don't worry Grunker, the crafting system won't compete with other systems, it's just used for consumables"?

I even think it was Sawyer himself that said that to me via you posing the question Infinitron.

Hmmm, I don't remember that.

Personally, I don't really give a shit if somebody wants to put a proc on his rusty dagger.

 

[Frusciante]

there will be some unique items?

WOW THIS SOLVES ALL PROBLEMS ABOUT DIS GAEM THANK YOU GODS OF BALANCE

No it doesnt. But it says something about the people complaining about it. Fatalistic, pessimistic people. And it's exemplary for all things related to this game. People assume the worsed based on nothing but buthurt about the lead designer.

 

[Infinitron]

lulz, I think that Helm guy has been lurking the Codex, reading Roguey's posts.

 

[Grunker]

What happened to "don't worry Grunker, the crafting system won't compete with other systems, it's just used for consumables"?

I even think it was Sawyer himself that said that to me via you posing the question Infinitron.

Hmmm, I don't remember that.

Personally, I don't really give a shit if somebody wants to put a proc on his rusty dagger.

Not the point. The point was not having crafting competing with other systems.

 

[Infinitron]

What happened to "don't worry Grunker, the crafting system won't compete with other systems, it's just used for consumables"?

I even think it was Sawyer himself that said that to me via you posing the question Infinitron.

Hmmm, I don't remember that.

Personally, I don't really give a shit if somebody wants to put a proc on his rusty dagger.

Not the point. The point was not having crafting competing with other systems.

I don't know, it depends on your definition of "competition". Are all crafting recipes available to the player from the beginning of the game? I think it'd be cool if it was guaranteed that you'd never get, for instance, a +3 enchantment recipe until well after you'd found a "natural" +3 weapon in the game.

More Sawyer:

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

That way if someone just wants to keep an item competitive and viable blah blah

He's fucking obsessed. OMG What if I can't kill the boss with that dagger from the first cave!!!?! Something needs to be done to fix this very serious issue with RPGs and possibly gaming in general!!!!

Or maybe you are obsessed. Maybe just maybe he just wants to give players options to keep using a weapon they like. There might be people who love the fact that their sword from the beginning of the game is getting a history of it's own by using it the entire playthrough.

But sure if you want to twist this into an obsession by Sawyer go for it. But all it's doing is making you look like someone who is completely obsessed by a game designer.

If I could brofist, I would ive this post one. There seems to be a contingent of people who are personally offended by the fact that there exist other gamers who want the option or freedom to like and make decisions even slightly different from what they like or want. The existence of options and alternatives, insofar as they do not actively detract from the "standard," is never a problem IMHO.