Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

Throne of Darkness

 

[imweasel]

Arcanum, Drakensang...

 

[Infinitron]

(I'm struggling to remember a party-based RPG that wasn't based on D&D, actually, apart from DA)

1990s birth date date detected

It does remind me of MMXI's famous lament about the state of modern RPGs: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...ernity-old-school-innovation/#comment-1102399

It’s interesting that you say that because Chris Avellone is one of the people responsible for taking a great genre, stripping away everything that makes it great and leaving adventure game dialogue with some skill checks. Comparing Planescape: Torment, which is basically the standard template these days, with Star Trail absolutely blows my mind to this day. Yes, variety is good, but the variety we have now is the Chris Avellone style and the Todd Howard style, both of which suck.

 

[Sensuki]

Well they do kind of have a point. There's not much left of the old school "gameplay ist krieg".

 

[Volrath]

and I know I am personally not backing any more of their games, and I doubt another Kickstarter would be as successful again.

It would really hurt if Tim Cain was lead designer of their new game on Kickstarter, but Obsidian has shown us that it is better to not support them and their empty promises.

Tim "Wildstar" Cain?

Also I can't believe you fuckers are talking positively in an UNIRONIC matter about David Fucking Gaider of all people. Take a step back and look at what you're doing Codex.

 

[LarsWestergren]

Was something like that in your post at some point or do I just need bigger glasses?

Glasses time I'm afraid. Basically just deleted my last "I swear geeks..." paragraph.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Dammit.

 

[MicoSelva]

guise, humor me: those who think combat is shit because of stats/abilities/what have you - did you like Dragon Age: Origins' combat for the same reasons?

I did not like DAO combat, because it seemed like I was doing the same stuff in every encounter, and it came down to flanking the enemy and using all my abilities, staring with the most powerful ones until I ran out of stamina or they died.
Also the enemy variety was pretty poor for such a large game.

It is impossible to tell if PoE combat will be similar to that or different. I would speculate it will be quite different and more interesting, but in its current state, it cannot really be evaluated. Too messy.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah I'm not going to play it again/do any more videos until the next patch.

 

[Shadenuat]

I can say rogues in this one learned much from DA:O, except bow skills. There are like 3-4 active abilities that all improve your damage in almost the same way. Do 1.2 more damage and weaken. Do 1.5. Do 1.3 and slow. Really shit.

And then there's stuff like rogue switches his position with enemy or friend instantly. Imagine Grunker face when he sees enemy rogues jumping around battlefield in real time switching with his own characters. All while fighters use their Pull ability to get those rogues back to them.

glorious CHAOS

Spoiler

 

[Sensuki]

Fighters, Rogues, Wizards and Priests are all fucking boring classes in PE because they're all gimped versions of their D&D counterparts.

It's the other classes that are cool where they've made their own design : Ciphers, Chanters, Rangers etc

So far the Monk hasn't been that great. Haven't played a Barbarian, Paladin or Druid.

 

[Infinitron]

Fighters, Rogues... fucking boring...gimped versions of their D&D counterparts.

Wat

"D&D", or AD&D Infinity Engine?

 

[Shadenuat]

Priest is like a stock D&D priest, stockier than Baldur's Gate, because all priests have same good-alignment set of spells. Heals, buffs and flaming strike. But at least it's a balanced set of spells compared to Druid who has 4-5 damage types in his spells every level.

Wizard has like, half the stuff we love missing. Fireballs, fireballs. But at least he can take enemy grimoires so we'll see.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah the class design is rigid. We are used to more flexibility in how we play those four classes. The only difference between a low level IE Rogue and a PE Rogue is that the PE Rogue does more damage per hit and has an active and two modals. Otherwise they play fairly similar.

The Fighter plays like a DAO Fighter with less stuff, you click knockdown a couple of times per encounter and maybe toggle on Defender mode and you suck at ranged combat so no Bow slinging Abdel Abdullah with a Bow either.

 

[Shadenuat]

Except the traps&stealing&chunking from shadows in 1 strike and all that.
God I miss the Infinity Engine backstab. It was so satisfying.

The Fighter plays like a DAO Fighter with less stuff, you click knockdown a couple of times per encounter and maybe toggle on Defender mode and you suck at ranged combat so no Bow slinging Abdel Abdullah with a Bow either.

True dat. That's because Ranger is bow slinging Abdel Abdullah and nobody else.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah well there's that too, I was just comparing them in combat. In Baldur's Gate 1 you usually play them as a worse archer than the Fighter or Ranger (not useless though, just not as good) or you get out your short sword +2 and do a backstab.

 

[Infinitron]

the PE Rogue.. has an active and two modals.

The Fighter plays like a DAO Fighter... you click knockdown a couple of times per encounter and maybe toggle on Defender mode

Or in other words, the Fighter and Rogue DO have more stuff to do/are less boring than IE/AD&D Fighters and Rogues.

Not sure why you have to overreach like this. Focus on the wizard and priest.

 

[Shadenuat]

Class having more to do doesn't mean it is automatically more interesting to play. Fighters in IE did a lot more damage and combat was more VISCERAL excuse for my doritotalk. Even if it's just beta, it often feels like there are no actual consequences for you using abilities. It's cool to know that per encounter my rogue with 2 daggers did 1500 damage, which is almost like ALL DAMAGE in party combined (must be bug lol), but during combat it did not feel that way and I'd rather have him do 100 damage, but see that 100 damage actually matter in combat.

Same can be said about fighter. Yes he gets some abilities. But one improves his defence, other improves his defence, and another improves his defence for a short while. Much choice, so to do.
Instead of fighter just holding the line, he holds the line a bit better if you click on him 2-3 times during combat. Knockdown also doesm't seem to do that much.

Pulling is the only ability that can change combat I think. Backers won't see it in work though. There's also an Arc attack but I doubt it would do much since fighters don't do much damage on average.

Wizards and Priests, yes, they require some management. Not so much as BG2 on high levels but PoE seemes to aim at levels 1-12.

 

[Sensuki]

Not sure why you have to overreach like this. Focus on the wizard and priest.

You're thinking about it from the wrong angle. The Class design is rigid so the characters basically play one way and that's it. This was not the case in the IE games. Therefore despite both the Fighter and the Rogue having some abilities to use in combat, they are boring. The abilities aren't fun either.

Currently the Fighter in every fight is

IF multiple enemies TOGGLE Defender Mode
DO Knockdown x2
END

You *have* to use your Fighter as the main tank, otherwise you're not playing it properly.

In the IE games your Fighter could be the main tank, sure - they could also be played quite a few different ways in combat, such as sitting at the back as an Archer, or being the guy with Boots of Speed that beelines through the pack to hit the mage before he gets his spell off. In PE it looks like the Fighter will play the same every fight, and that is SHIT.

That's also what I hated about DAO.

 

[Spockrock]

I did not like DAO combat, because it seemed like I was doing the same stuff in every encounter, and it came down to flanking the enemy and using all my abilities, staring with the most powerful ones until I ran out of stamina or they died.
Also the enemy variety was pretty poor for such a large game.

funny, because that's pretty much how PoE combat feels to me in the beta

which makes no xp for combat kind of cool, because I can't be bothered to butcher cultists and local wildlife, and now I don't have to worry about missing out on levels worth of xp

1990s birth date date detected

you're mistaken. I come from a poor family and didn't own a PC until I could afford to buy one myself when I was 20. so I didn't play any of that because the 2000s were starting, and it wasn't comme il faut to play games older than 1998 (except for Arcanum (which doesn't even register as a game on my radar, fucking waste of time))

 

[Infinitron]

You're thinking about it from the wrong angle. The Class design is rigid so the characters basically play one way and that's it. This was not the case in the IE games. Therefore despite both the Fighter and the Rogue having some abilities to use in combat, they are boring. The abilities aren't fun either.

Currently the Fighter in every fight is

IF multiple enemies TOGGLE Defender Mode
DO Knockdown x2
END

You *have* to use your Fighter as the main tank, otherwise you're not playing it properly.

In the IE games your Fighter could be the main tank, sure - they could also be played quite a few different ways in combat, such as sitting at the back as an Archer, or being the guy with Boots of Speed that beelines through the pack to hit the mage before he gets his spell off. In PE it looks like the Fighter will play the same every fight, and that is SHIT.

That's also what I hated about DAO.

Or maybe you just need more time to experiment with PoE's roles? You've been playing these D&D games for a decade, you've played a beta of PoE for a few hours before giving up on it for being buggy.

The game's system is clearly flexible; what you're saying just doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Sensuki]

I don't believe it is just me that finds that's just how those classes play in combat.

You also made a lot of similar defensive statements about people complaining about Wasteland 2 when they were playing. This time, you have the beta - how about playing it a bit yourself and making a conclusion based on having played the game ?

I'm not going to be playing any further until the next patch though because it's pretty pointless. Most of the critical issues have been addressed, just need to wait for a patch and then we can have some proper discussions about where to go regarding combat speeds, class abilities and attributes and whatnot.

 

[MicoSelva]

I'm not going to be playing any further until the next patch though because it's pretty pointless. Most of the critical issues have been addressed, just need to wait for a patch and then we can have some proper discussions about where to go regarding combat speeds, class abilities and attributes and whatnot.

This, this, and this. No point arguing intricacies of combat, if the combat does not even work properly at the moment.

 

[Abu Antar]

The Fighter is boring to play, so I have mostly just used him as a meat shield. I don't even control him in PoE, not even to knock down stuff. I just turn on defender mode and send him in to the heat of things. All I do is make sure he has enough stamina so I can regenerate it at the right time. I can with 100% certainty say that I will not make my main character a Fighter if he stays this way. I like the Monk. Take some damage and then use your abilities. I still think I am going with that class for my first playthrough. The Cipher and Chanter are fun to play but feel extremely overpowered. I haven't tried the Barbarian, Rogue, Druid, Cleric, Paladin or Ranger. The Wizard was decent to play as, especially when I had two grimoires.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't believe it is just me that finds that's just how those classes play in combat.

You also made a lot of similar defensive statements about people complaining about Wasteland 2 when they were playing. This time, you have the beta - how about playing it a bit yourself and making a conclusion based on having played the game ?

I'm not going to be playing any further until the next patch though because it's pretty pointless. Most of the critical issues have been addressed, just need to wait for a patch and then we can have some proper discussions about where to go regarding combat speeds, class abilities and attributes and whatnot.

I'm just saying that it requires a certain burden of proof when you're claiming that a game fails to do something that it is explicitly trying to do. Making more involving, more interesting, more flexible Fighters and Rogues was a design goal of this game. Wizards and Priests, on the other hand, may have been intentionally nerfed.

Anyway, SPIDERS: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67897-overly-deadly-spiders-intentional/?p=1493500

Hello everyone,

Thank you for your feedback. There are a few bugs related to these concerns, some that we have fixed and some that we are still working on. However, it is also important to know that the Crystal Eater spiders do have a petrification effect. Currently, if a character becomes petrified they will cease to lose stamina and all damage will go to their health bar only. This damage is then dealt at 4x the value to cause their health loss rate to become similar to the rate that a stamina bar would receive damage.

If a character is both poisoned by Widowmaker or Ivory spiders and then becomes petrified as well, their health can drop very quickly. If the character falls, as long as you do not have expert mode's death feature on, these character's should become maimed at the end of the fight, allowing them to recover via a rest.

One of the major issues that we should have resolved in our current build, is that the check that was being made to decide if the petrification effect was successful was not being made correctly. So it is possible that in the beta the Crystal Spiders are applying petrification a little too often.

I will look into these concerns further and make sure that the designers are aware of any unseen hurdles.

Thank you all for your continued support, you are all awesome!

Nice.