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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
We also changed esoteric rules, like our stacking rules, which is a very D&D, noodley thing; we made those much clearer and simpler. We also looked at our status effect system. I think there were 30 afflictions in Pillars of Eternity and they were all unique and their relationship to each other was very unclear. You had to memorize which priest’s spells countered which afflictions and all this other nonsense. We brought that down into a set of afflictions that’s easier to understand based around the different attributes. For example, “weakened” is the first tier of strength affliction and there are multiple levels up from weakened that are basically all the effects below plus the effect above, and if you counter it with any strength inspiration, such as “strong,” that gets rid of them all automatically. It doesn’t matter if it’s a low-level or high-level affliction; it’ll get rid of any of them and make you immune to any subsequent applications of them. If you learn that for strength, you’ll also learn it for intellect and dexterity and others. They all follow a similar convention.
:retarded: The problem with the afflictions in PoE wasn't that they were too complex, it's that they had minor effects that you could easily shrug off. In D&D the 'frightened' effect made you run away in panic, in PoE it's just a minor penalty to accuracy. From the way he describes Deadfire's 'solution', it sounds like they added even more pointles bloat rather than making afflictions have meaningful and distinctive effects.
Boy, these afflictions rules sound very dumbed down.
 

Iskramor

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WTF: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...eternity-ii-deadfire-coming-to-consoles.aspx?

Pillars Of Eternity II: Deadfire Coming To Consoles

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Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire is nearing completion for PC, Mac, and Linux, with a release planned for April 3. For players without a dedicated gaming PC, you can still look forward to a chance to try out this sequel, as Game Informer has learned that Deadfire is set to come to PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and Switch during the holiday season of 2018.

While Obsidian heads up primary development duties for Pillars II on PC, the game is being ported to consoles by developer Red Cerberus. Versus Evil and Obsidian are working together to publish the game.

For more on Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire, check out our four-page feature in the latest issue of Game Informer, releasing today.

Our Take
The original Pillars of Eternity was a fantastic isometric role-playing game, and there’s good reason to believe that its sequel will continue the tradition of excellence. The original game released last summer for Xbox One and PlayStation 4; it’s good news that console players won’t have to wait quite so long for the sequel. Undoubtedly, Nintendo enthusiasts should also be excited to see the game heading to the Switch, a platform that is still establishing its cred as a role-playing game destination.

lol did Josh know about this? This is what he says in the TheSixthAxis preview: http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2018/02/06/taking-to-the-high-seas-in-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/

For those on console, looking to continue their journey from the first game, it might be a long wait, if it happens at all. The first game’s port was created by a team at Paradox Interactive, but Obsidian have partnered with a different publisher for the sequel. Even so, Josh said, “I think there’s the possibility for it, but what I’ve said, and this is honest, is that everything we focus on for this game is about PC, Mac and Linux. Clearly Paradox Arctic showed you can port this style of game to console, and to their credit it seems like the people that bought it on console really seemed to enjoy it. Whether or not the audience is there, I don’t know because I don’t have the sales figures, so I would say nothing would prohibit the game being on console, but the main platforms are PC, Mac and Linux.
LMAO
a lot of design decisions suddenly make more sense
Alex jones intensifies
 

Trashos

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Josh's interview is spectacular. Of course, we will see how all these plans are actually executed.

Hate to admit it. But hyped.
 
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maybe if I can corrupt and change them with my Skaen Priest

Sounds as fun as unreasonable.
Although they might have designed class-specific stuff through quest and dialogues reactivity, there's still little chance they did. This is the kind of stuff you have no reason not to show or talk about before release, it's a big seller today, towards both grogs and casuls. (Since I haven't paid attention to everything told so far, I might be wrong about that. You can safely disregard this post if there has been word about any focus on class/archetype reactivity).
By comparing to the first game, and going by the likely idea that they expanded on it in terms of scope, every class would have 5-10 checks total in the whole game, in quests scripts and dialogues including subclasses ones (when there's any, that mostly concerns paladins, wizards and priests). If they went for an expanded and fully fleshed out class reactivity, they probably wouldn't have developped subclasses and multiclassing. Although there wouldn't be a party-based skill check mechanic.

But then again, I don't understand why it would matter that much. Hack n slashers do not shine by their reactivity. Party-based ones even less so, for obvious reasons. The most important flaws of the first game were about pacing (especially the writing) and combat.
I have a high tolerance to non reactive good Door-Monster-Treasure adventures as long as they're real good.
 
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Lacrymas

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I don't mean class-based reactivity, but actively influencing your companions to be more like you (tied to the reputations maybe) or changing their personalities based on what you do and how you treat them. Isn't that what the "companion relationship system" is all about? It's funny they have a name and separate system for it when it should be like that as a default from a writing perspective.
 
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Sizzle

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I don't mean class-based reactivity, but actively influencing your companions to be more like you (tied to the reputations maybe) or changing their personalities based on what you do and how you treat them. Isn't that what the "companion relationship system" is all about? It's funny they have a name and separate system for it when it should be like that as a default from a writing perspective.

As far as I can see, the relationship system is touted more as an expansion to traditional BioWare-like party dynamics. So instead of simply being a binary "I like/hate/wanna bone you", usually directed solely at the PC, it's expanded with options like platonic friendship and rivalries between the characters as well.

Not sure if that means you'll be able to drastically influence how the companions think and act, but reading through it, it doesn't seem to be the case.

JS: The companion system is mostly focused on role-playing, it’s not really mechanically focused so much. There are occasionally minor mechanical effects from it. We looked at how companions were handled in Pillars 1 and one of the things we found is that people wanted companions to chime in to stuff in the world more often. Second, we found that people wanted NPC’s in the world to react to the companions reacting to them. So, it felt like when a companion made an aside, it was said to the player silently or to the camera almost, because the NPC’s would never pick up on it and say anything back. So, we wanted to make them feel like they’re more engaged, and we also wanted the player to feel like the player could develop relationships over time. Right away, we knew we were going to devote more time to writing the companions overall.

There’s something systemic I’ve been thinking about doing since the early 2000’s, something more or less called a topic-based system for adjusting companion reactivity. It’s a little complicated, but I’ll break it down: in a lot of games, companions will be set up to hate or love each other and you’re along for the ride as they hit these certain break points. There may or may not be a lot of evidence leading up to that point, but those companions are designed to like or dislike each other. I wanted to try and find something that married the more organic and systemic elements of a game with narrative offerings that sort of fit the ideas we have as designers.

For example, Edér, beloved Edér, is your racist uncle. A lot of people didn’t realize that until later on in Pillars of Eternity that Edér has some latent racist ideas about Orlans; he doesn’t think of himself as a racist, but he has these backwards ideas that come up in comments here and there, but once an Orlan joins the party, he starts saying this racist stuff and doesn’t really realize it, but players are like “wow, this dude is racist.” The idea is that there are certain topics that different companions will respond positively or negatively to. They can come from other companions or the player. When those topics are hit, like someone being anti-god in the case of Pallegina,someone being racist in the case of Edér, someone being cruel to animals, which is a thing that Edér doesn’t like but other people might do, these are things that companions will react to.

They can react to either systemically where they’ll express dissatisfaction through either a physical tick like scratching their beard and shaking their head or plucking their tongue or they will actually chime in and say, “that’s not cool, I don’t like that.” But when that happens, that’s what is moving that relationship in a certain direction. It’s not something that is random or unplanned; it’s something where we’re like “hey, if this character doesn’t like racists, and we know Edér is racist, we should plan for and author a relationship between them that hinges on the expression of that behavior”. But, if you don’t actually have those topics come up a lot, then that relationship will not develop in that way. It could develop in a positive way or not develop at all. Of course, in the case of someone like Pallegina, if you keep asking her what she thinks about the gods, she’s going to keep saying about how she hates them and anyone who thinks of that as offensive is going to continue taking offense.

So, much like being at Thanksgiving with your racist uncle, there are certain topics you might try to avoid in conversation because you know that it’s going to set someone else off. That’s what I feel like is a very interesting aspect of the system. These aren’t random things, you will start to see and experience and you’ll go like “oh s---, if this person keeps going, this other person is going to keep getting angrier, so I have to try and drive the conversation away from these topics. Or, maybe I don’t give a s--- and I’ll exacerbate that and move towards those topic points.” In a way that you might expect, when those relationships come to a head, even positive ones, you’re there as a central character as the captain of the Defiant and the people that bring these others together, you’re there to smooth things over or move things along in the case of a romance or friendship. It’s been a delicate balance because it is not random, where anyone can have any sort of relationship with anyone, but something where if someone says “I can’t stand Pallegina because she’s so hateful of religion and the gods”, the player just shouldn’t be like “what, I haven’t heard her say anything like that” but should be like “yeah dude, she’s said it like half a dozen times”. So, it really feels like a natural outgrowth of the behavior you’ve already seen.

What this looks like to me, is similar to the companion system from F:NV. They each have a couple of possible paths that you can nudge them towards to. But all of them represent something that is integral to each character, and they are usually a part of an inner conflict that you can help them resolve. For example, Raul can be persuaded to be either a gunslinger like he was in his (pre-nuclear apocalypse) past, or to become an even better mechanic, settling this matter for him and giving him peace of mind. What you cannot do - is overwhelm his entire persona into corrupting him to be explicitly evil. It isn't KoTOR2.

The Watcher's powers give some options of doing something KoTOR2-esque, but I don't think they'll go down that route.
 
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Grotesque

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This console butthurt is so full of shitty prejudices that whatever thing they can do with the game, it will be inesorabily classified as "omg they do it with console in mind!"
yeah, I wonder what the fans of the Thief franchise would say about that!



Has anyone actually legitimately played the console port? How on earth do they make it work



--------------------------

I played the naval cannon combat and they have a lot of tweaking to do.

If your ship is destroyed, it's game over. If you destroy the enemy it's game over for them I guess. But that's the incentive to engage in such battles?
I played a ship boarding combat scenario that is available after going straight for the enemy ship to ram it and the rewards were just some resources.

And the amount of mouse clicking is obnoxious because you also have to press "continue" after each decision selection to confirm it.

You also have to press continue to see if the cannonball hit their target for fuck's sake!

Capture1.png
 

FreeKaner

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Yes definitely they need to remove continues after choices and actions, why do I need to click again to see the cannons I ordered to fire actually fire, then again to see damage the cannons I just fired do? A cRPG shouldn't need MOBA levels of frantic clicking.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
We also changed esoteric rules, like our stacking rules, which is a very D&D, noodley thing; we made those much clearer and simpler. We also looked at our status effect system. I think there were 30 afflictions in Pillars of Eternity and they were all unique and their relationship to each other was very unclear. You had to memorize which priest’s spells countered which afflictions and all this other nonsense. We brought that down into a set of afflictions that’s easier to understand based around the different attributes. For example, “weakened” is the first tier of strength affliction and there are multiple levels up from weakened that are basically all the effects below plus the effect above, and if you counter it with any strength inspiration, such as “strong,” that gets rid of them all automatically. It doesn’t matter if it’s a low-level or high-level affliction; it’ll get rid of any of them and make you immune to any subsequent applications of them. If you learn that for strength, you’ll also learn it for intellect and dexterity and others. They all follow a similar convention.
:retarded: The problem with the afflictions in PoE wasn't that they were too complex, it's that they had minor effects that you could easily shrug off. In D&D the 'frightened' effect made you run away in panic, in PoE it's just a minor penalty to accuracy. From the way he describes Deadfire's 'solution', it sounds like they added even more pointles bloat rather than making afflictions have meaningful and distinctive effects.
Boy, these afflictions rules sound very dumbed down.

Eh, but the Afflictions in PoE1 really were a little too much. They already had "meaningful and distinctive effects". Lowering defense by 40 and making every hit do triple damage is quite meaningful in my book. Now if it's categorized and easier to read and understand plus counter, if needed, that's a good thing IMO.
 

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The problem with afflictions in PoE1 was that they were unorganized. If you looked closely, there was a discernable hierarchy among them (for example Frightened->Terrified) but it wasn't formalized, the game just gave you a big list. Organizing afflictions into an explicit hierarchy not only makes them easier to understand, but also allows the designer to create and distribute new affliction protection spells that affect different levels of the hierarchy. This allows more classes besides the Priest to participate in the affliction counter-spelling game. The Priest can still have the best protection spells, but other classes can get spells that protect against weaker afflictions.

My post from 2015: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...he-white-march-expansion.103304/#post-4113396

I must have whined to Josh about this a million times after PoE1 was released. And he listened!
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
My main question is why are you uploading images on "New Zealand's premium image hosting site" :P
 

Infinitron

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My main question is why are you uploading images on "New Zealand's premium image hosting site" :P

It's a site that Crooked Bee introduced to me: http://iforce.co.nz/

It lets you upload as many images as you want and get an instant BBCode output that you can copy-paste into the forum in one go. If you know a better/faster site that does this, do tell. Imgur doesn't.
 
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Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
No idea for anything better and that's cool. Was just pretty surprised to see New Zealand
 

Lacrymas

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The problem I see here is that even base inspirations will cancel the highest affliction. At least that's what I'm reading into this. Which means basically everyone has access to total affliction canceling abilities and Priests can eat shit. Yeah, they were a bit OP and almost mandatory if you couldn't replicate their spells with scrolls, but it wasn't necessary to demolish their entire niche to bring them in line. Atm, all Priests are at the bottom of the "barely viable" category.
 

Infinitron

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The problem I see here is that even base inspirations will cancel the highest affliction. At least that's what I'm reading into this. Which means basically everyone has access to total affliction canceling abilities and Priests can eat shit. Yeah, they were a bit OP and almost mandatory if you couldn't replicate their spells with scrolls, but it wasn't necessary to demolish their entire niche to bring them in line. Atm, all Priests are at the bottom of the "barely viable" category.

Yeah, if there are no spells that only affect certain tiers of afflictions, or affect different tiers in different ways, then that's a waste of potential I guess. This is still an improvement if the inspirations are well-designed and distributed though (not all classes get all inspirations, different level thresholds to get them, different durations, etc)
 

FreeKaner

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It would be nice if basic inspirations only removed a level of affliction, while priests could retain suppress affliction that removes all tiers. This way every class could still retain the effect to remove afflictions, provided that it's concentrated enough accordingly to intensity of it while priests could possibly do it single-handedly, there would also be some diminishing returns to priests this way by also in a way suppressing inspirations of other classes.

Infinitron could you ask Sawyer perhaps if it's indeed the case that inspirations are always cleansing and if there are any plans to adjust it?
 

Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Look on the bright side: I can pronounce the name.
 

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