Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Ent]

wtf the first time I played POE I used a wizard and when I replayed with the DLC I used a cipher are you telling me they now suck wtf

what classes aren't shit now?

Martials and Chanters are kings atm. Shifter druids are pretty good too and so are Any Martial focused class/ Soul blade and Rogue/Beguiler (those are cipher subclasses).

 

[Sentinel]

Cool. Looking forward to seeing what a fresh designer can bring to the table in terms of game design. Josh just plays it immensely safe for my taste.

 

[badler]

Edit: In terms of size, will the DLC be roughly comparable to the White March in size/scope?

Thanks.

That's all still being worked out right now, so I can't answer it. That said, we know what the expectations are for DLC/Expansion content in this type of game.

 

[badler]

badler what project management software does Obsidian actually use out of curiosity?

Always kind of wondering what veteran gamedev uses to plan a ridiculously large and complicated project where getting it right is supremely important, as opposed to regular snobs making an iphone app in a corporate job.

Right now we are using a combination of Jira and Confluence. We still have a somewhat active Sharepoint site, but it is mostly used as a repository for documents.

Confluence works surprisingly well for our purposes and makes getting information out to the team pretty easy.

 

[2house2fly]

They've also said it's "optional" in big quotation marks. Why are you people so naive?

They put "optional" in quotation marks because it was an article quoting Sawyer.

 

[Infinitron]

Empower spam their spells, that's all I can think of. Go into battle -> Empower all the damage-dealing spells you can -> rest -> repeat.

 

[Haplo]

If you're expected to rest every 3-4 significant fights, why remove the per-rest ability mechanics in the first place?
Particularly with the awesome diversification of class mechanics that PoE 1 had: per-rest casters, who eventually gained some spells as per-encounter (wizards, clerics, druids) and sustained casters (ciphers, chanters). Now this distinction is sadly gone.

 

[Lacrymas]

I wasn't aware that you can only Empower once in a fight. Well, that goes my theory that they were designed around spamming all their Empowers each encounter.

If you're expected to rest every 3-4 significant fights, why remove the per-rest ability mechanics in the first place? Particularly with the awesome diversification of class mechanics that PoE 1 had: per-rest casters, who eventually gained some spells as per-encounter (wizards, clerics, druids) and sustained casters (ciphers, chanters). Now this distinction is sadly gone.

Wasn't the expectation (even certainty) that people will rest after every fight and that was what "necessitated" this change? What's this about 3-4 fights we hear from Sawyer? There's some cognitive dissonance happening here. The funny thing is that I haven't rested once in my two playthroughs of the beta. The class design was never particularly good or memorable in PoE, all classes played like variations of each other and the very few unique things each class had wasn't enough to differentiate them.

It is likely that their internal testers are not as efficient at the melee combat as you are, so that makes the casters seem valuable because enemies are still alive when spells go off.

If you want to prove otherwise, merely posting here may not be enough and video evidence always helps. I haven't been reading the OE forums but I haven't really seen many beta vids in this thread or on SA the few times I've skimmed through the most recent pages. PoE beta had heaps of people posting videos quite often.

I might do that after the next beta update if nothing seems to have changed with casters. I'll also do a write-up of my thoughts on the whole combat and will post it on their forums. I'm kind of wary of doing grand proclamations of broken combat in general because we only have a very limited slice of it in the beta. Who knows, casters may get better after they gain a few levels and start gaining abilities that will increase their Penetration. At the end of the day, I don't think they have enough time to do sweeping changes until release, but Josh said he's committed to continue balancing and changing it after the game comes out.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Can't talk about the DLCs much right now. For those that have asked:

• Do I like D&D?
  • Yes. I grew up on D&D and still play it fairly often. Right now I'm in a campaign being run by Justin Britch (PoE2 Lead Producer).
• What work have I done on the PoE franchise?
  • I was the Lead Producer on PoE1 and have worked as a Systems Designer on PoE 2 at various times.
• What have I been doing lately?
  
  • Between stints on PoE I have worked on Tyranny (Systems Designer) and Pathfinder (Lead Designer). In both of those cases, I was coming kind of late into the process to take over the work of others. Most recently, before moving back onto PoE2, I was focused on creating pitches for the company. I can't tell you if any of the pitches were successful, but I thought some of them were really cool.
• Why am I working as the Game Director on PoE2 DLC?
  • Well, the biggest reason is because I feel I can do a great job with it. I asked for the opportunity and explained what I wanted to do with the DLC. I was lucky enough to be given a shot. I'm very familiar with PoE, D&D, and the IE games. I've also been discussing the possibility of jumping into a Game Director role with Obsidian for a while now. In addition, Josh had mentioned he wanted to hand off direction of the DLC to work on other things, so it was a good time for me to jump in.
• Why not Bobby/Adam/Another Dev?
  • It just as easily could have been someone else, but the timing worked out well for me to do it and the company has confidence in my ability to create cool DLC for them. For those wondering why Bobby or Adam didn't do it, keep in mind that they're knee deep in closing a game down. They are in important roles and can't be easily moved.

Anyway, I don't mind answering any questions that I can, but I probably can't talk about anything DLC specific for a little while.

Don't make anymore fucking mid game expansions...

 

[Infinitron]

If you're expected to rest every 3-4 significant fights, why remove the per-rest ability mechanics in the first place?

Those abilities could be "spammed" (expending them all in a single battle), Empower can't be.

The class design was never particularly good or memorable in PoE, all classes played like variations of each other and the very few unique things each class had wasn't enough to differentiate them.

lol

 

[Lacrymas]

I know exactly what I am talking about, Infinitron, I did two major playthroughs of PoE (I'm currently in the middle of the second one, going for Triple Crown) with only a Barbarian being in the two parties. The major difference between the two is not having a Priest in the second one, rather than all the other classes being unique. I'd say only the Chanter is unlike anything else, even unlike anything else in other RPGs.

 

[Trashos]

Can't talk about the DLCs much right now. For those that have asked:

• Do I like D&D?
  • Yes. I grew up on D&D and still play it fairly often. Right now I'm in a campaign being run by Justin Britch (PoE2 Lead Producer).
• What work have I done on the PoE franchise?
  • I was the Lead Producer on PoE1 and have worked as a Systems Designer on PoE 2 at various times.
• What have I been doing lately?
  • Between stints on PoE I have worked on Tyranny (Systems Designer) and Pathfinder (Lead Designer). In both of those cases, I was coming kind of late into the process to take over the work of others. Most recently, before moving back onto PoE2, I was focused on creating pitches for the company. I can't tell you if any of the pitches were successful, but I thought some of them were really cool.
• Why am I working as the Game Director on PoE2 DLC?
  • Well, the biggest reason is because I feel I can do a great job with it. I asked for the opportunity and explained what I wanted to do with the DLC. I was lucky enough to be given a shot. I'm very familiar with PoE, D&D, and the IE games. I've also been discussing the possibility of jumping into a Game Director role with Obsidian for a while now. In addition, Josh had mentioned he wanted to hand off direction of the DLC to work on other things, so it was a good time for me to jump in.
• Why not Bobby/Adam/Another Dev?
  • It just as easily could have been someone else, but the timing worked out well for me to do it and the company has confidence in my ability to create cool DLC for them. For those wondering why Bobby or Adam didn't do it, keep in mind that they're knee deep in closing a game down. They are in important roles and can't be easily moved.

Anyway, I don't mind answering any questions that I can, but I probably can't talk about anything DLC specific for a little while.

Don't make anymore fucking mid game expansions...

Or rebalance the whole game afterwards, if you do. Like Josh did after the New Vegas dlc.

 

[Infinitron]

MotB-style sequel-expansions will never happen again IMO. In all cases developers would rather make a full-blown sequel than a DLC that fewer people will buy.

The best you can hope for are "mid-game" expansions that are suitable for endgame characters, coupled with base games that continue after you finish the main quest (increasingly common these days, wouldn't surprise me if PoE2 does it). So you beat the final boss or whatever, get dumped back on the world map, and then when the expansions come out you can play them.

 

[Kem0sabe]

MotB-style sequel-expansions will never happen again. In all cases developers would rather make a full-blown sequel than a DLC that fewer people will buy.

The best you can hope for are "mid-game" expansions that are suitable for endgame characters, coupled with base games that continue after you finish the main quest (increasingly common these days, wouldn't surprise me if PoE2 does it). So you beat the final boss or whatever, get dumped back on the world map and then when the expansions come out you can play them.

I dont find them enticing, a completely different story that isnt linked to the main narrative, they always feels like you are going sideways instead of going forward with your character. The best expansion Obsidian ever did, the most loved and with the most accolades, was an endgame expansion, MobT, that should be a sign of what fans want.... cant comment on how well it did or didnt do commercially tho.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

mask of the betrayer would have sold far better as a standalone game.

 

[Lacrymas]

MotB is much loved because it's one of the best campaigns in gaming history, not necessarily because it's post-OC content.

 

[Kem0sabe]

MotB is much loved because it's one of the best campaigns in gaming history, not necessarily because it's post-OC content.

Did the fact that the writers continued the shard-bearer's story factor into it being so good? I mean, the player already ended the main campaign in an epic state story wise, so if they were going to continue it they had to one-up everything, gods, planes, crusades, etc.

I think it allowed the writers to go beyond traditional rpg campaigns. If it was a mid game expansion how could you have done all that awesome stuff and characters and then have the main character go back to the banal boring campaign?

 

[Luckmann]

MotB was, for practically all intents and purposes, not an expansion. It was a completely stand-alone adventure that might as well have been told from the point of view of a completely different character. It didn't even introduce a relevant insertion, you could've had the "You awaken in the cave and have no idea how you got there" anyway.

To this day, I still have no idea why they didn't just make it stand-alone. Being the Shard-Bearer just ties it into a fundamentally bad campaign, and is the main reason I'm not replaying MotB, since I would feel forced to play through the NWN2 OC too.

Can't talk about the DLCs much right now. For those that have asked:

• Do I like D&D?
  • Yes. I grew up on D&D and still play it fairly often. Right now I'm in a campaign being run by Justin Britch (PoE2 Lead Producer).
• What work have I done on the PoE franchise?
  • I was the Lead Producer on PoE1 and have worked as a Systems Designer on PoE 2 at various times.
• What have I been doing lately?
  • Between stints on PoE I have worked on Tyranny (Systems Designer) and Pathfinder (Lead Designer). In both of those cases, I was coming kind of late into the process to take over the work of others. Most recently, before moving back onto PoE2, I was focused on creating pitches for the company. I can't tell you if any of the pitches were successful, but I thought some of them were really cool.
• Why am I working as the Game Director on PoE2 DLC?
  • Well, the biggest reason is because I feel I can do a great job with it. I asked for the opportunity and explained what I wanted to do with the DLC. I was lucky enough to be given a shot. I'm very familiar with PoE, D&D, and the IE games. I've also been discussing the possibility of jumping into a Game Director role with Obsidian for a while now. In addition, Josh had mentioned he wanted to hand off direction of the DLC to work on other things, so it was a good time for me to jump in.
• Why not Bobby/Adam/Another Dev?
  • It just as easily could have been someone else, but the timing worked out well for me to do it and the company has confidence in my ability to create cool DLC for them. For those wondering why Bobby or Adam didn't do it, keep in mind that they're knee deep in closing a game down. They are in important roles and can't be easily moved.

Anyway, I don't mind answering any questions that I can, but I probably can't talk about anything DLC specific for a little while.

Don't make anymore fucking mid game expansions...

Mid-game expansions are entirely superior to sequel expansions. The fact that White March was handled shittily is entirely beside the point, and is symptomatic of the tacked-to-the-side nature of modern expansion DLC:s. Good mid-game expansions are expansions that expand the game world and create contextually fitting plot lines or plot points integrated into the setting, with new content spread out as a general improvement.

White March was shit because it made no fucking sense to go to a completely different region in the middle of everything and do something completely unrelated. It has the same issues as most (all?) the FO3/FONV DLC:s in that it's really just a different thing tacked onto the side with some glue.

 

[Haplo]

If you're expected to rest every 3-4 significant fights, why remove the per-rest ability mechanics in the first place? Particularly with the awesome diversification of class mechanics that PoE 1 had: per-rest casters, who eventually gained some spells as per-encounter (wizards, clerics, druids) and sustained casters (ciphers, chanters). Now this distinction is sadly gone.

Wasn't the expectation (even certainty) that people will rest after every fight and that was what "necessitated" this change? What's this about 3-4 fights we hear from Sawyer? There's some cognitive dissonance happening here.

Indeed.

The class design was never particularly good or memorable in PoE, all classes played like variations of each other and the very few unique things each class had wasn't enough to differentiate them.

I strongly disagree with that. I've really found PoE1 classes awesome. Far more interesting and distinct then their IE counterparts for example. Pretty much all of them.
Cipher, Chanter, Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, Druid, even Fighter and Rogue. Each of them has something interesting and unique about the class - and an active (more-or-less) role to play.

Well maybe with the exception of the Wizard and Cleric. Still even they got some useful, unique skills that help set them apart and give them something to do in every encounter (Arcane veils, those Arcane assault cantrips, even Grimoire slam, holy radiance, Interdiction).

 

[Infinitron]

To this day, I still have no idea why they didn't just make it stand-alone.

That wouldn't have been Obsidian's call! They had permission to make an expansion, not a game. This is also why Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear was a DLC (which is probably the single biggest reason for its commercial failure)

Back in 2007 you would have also had to deal with preconceptions about what size a standalone game should be. The concept of the small short indie game wasn't in the public conciousness yet, so even if they had been allowed to make it stand-alone, I could see Feargus being uneasy about it. "It's small, so it should be an expansion, if we release it as its own game it'll get slammed in reviews for being too short".

Oh, and physical distribution costs might have still been a factor then. Making the expansion standalone would require packaging the entire base NWN2 engine into the installer, so there would have been more CDs/DVDs in the box.

 

[Lacrymas]

Having something to do doesn't make them not samey. I think those within the different archetypes are essentially the same class with the names switched around, just with different potential for OP-ness. The difference comes from the various builds rather than the classes themselves.

 

[Haplo]

They are far from same-y though. At least far more distinct then in the classic IE games.

 

[AwesomeButton]

badler, can you talk about whether the DLC will be mid-game (White March), post-game (Mask of the Betrayer), or standalone (Storm of Zehir)?

Post-game. I read it in an interview with Josh, as far as I recall.

 

[Infinitron]

badler, can you talk about whether the DLC will be mid-game (White March), post-game (Mask of the Betrayer), or standalone (Storm of Zehir)?

Post-game. I read it in an interview with Josh, as far as I recall.

I'm fairly certain he's said no such thing

 

[Luckmann]

That wouldn't have been Obsidian's call! They had permission to make an expansion, not a game.

Fair point, however, it is possible to make stand-alone expansions. After all, Storm of Zehir was completely stand-alone, if I recall correctly (I never finished it).

Edit: Come to think of it, I could be using "stand-alone" in a confusing manner, for which I apologise. When I first said "stand alone", I meant in the narrative context. I just sorta realized it could be understood as "stand alone" as in being it's own completely separate installation, kinda like how Total War: Warhammer 2 is practically a stand-alone expansion.

This is also why Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear was a DLC (which is probably the single biggest reason for its commercial failure)

Sure, it wasn't because it was a SocJus garbage dumb of bad ideas and terrible execution, and an abject study in awful everything.