Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Ent]

Single class martials feel better now.

 

[CptMace]

> game was so borign i actaelly dont even remmber its name heheheheeeeeeee

 

[Ent]

You can get the devoted weapon bonus on fists attacks now as a monk probably going to trying to a shatter pillar/devoted

 

[AwesomeButton]

Adding generic abilities is something I rather dislike, since they are a step in the direction of making classes less unique.

Classes having unique advantages in one thing, but Deadfire seems to be taking this too far sometimes.

For example if I understand correctly only fighters are able to have 4 weapon slots and only with one of the subclasses, all other classes are limited to 2. This means that gun switch builds will be only possible with a fighter single/multiclass. Gun switch builds are inherently ranged damage dealers with a focus on huge burst damage while fighter is inherently a defensive class focused on melee. They simply don't fit each other.

I think the 3rd weapon slot was available to all fighters, and I don't know about the 4th.

To be honest, I think having to spend the same resource in order to buy both abilities/spells, and to modify the UI (open a weapon slot) is wrong, and dare I say, unbalanced.

For gun-switching or any other kind of "builds" to make sense, you first have to have the balance which allows characters to feel like they are playing differently. To get there, you need them to have unique abilities and varied enough progression in key stats such as defences, health, and accuracy. Deadfire currently doesn't really do that - everyone progresses at nearly the same rate in defences and accuracy. The only incentive to keep someone to the back line is a smaller health pool. For me, until the differences between classes are more pronounced, it makes no sense pondering over "builds". As it is, the cart is before the horse.

My overall impression is that Josh's retweet from a couple of weeks ago describes the current situation of the game's balance - all attempts at reaching a sane state are out the window, and instead we are showing the players magic tricks and "click this awesome button to make bigger puff-puffs with your spells". And when we are at this stage, worrying about builds is out of place, if you really know and understand what is it that you are playing.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'd say subclasses focus the character enough to make it stand out in the gameplay department. At last my Lifegiver Druid plays differently from my Paladin/Berserker tank. 5 party slots hurt this concept, though, the excessive micromanagement of abilities is mostly gone, even if you do spam the same ones over and over in every fight, so there was no need to reduce the party. The 5 slot limit feels cramped and limited, I'd like to get another tank in for example, and the subclass focusing of characters make the party good at very few things. I really can't wait for everyone to try it out and see the confused outrage. There is just so much wrong you don't know where to even begin, lol. The only thing they fixed is some balancing issues with casters and I'd say it's still not enough if the defenses of the mobs are going to stay like they are, it's difficult to make any spell land because of excessively bloated defenses. At least on PotD. Even if they do make casters do as much dmg as melee, melee can still more reliably dish it out. Yeah, you are losing versatility, but again, it's difficult to get any spell to land due to the extremely high defenses compared to the party's Accuracy, so that point's a bit moot atm.

 

[Infinitron]

Are you guys just randomly monologuing now? Lol.

I'd say it's still not enough if the defenses of the mobs are going to stay like they are, it's difficult to make any spell land because of excessively bloated defenses. At least on PotD.

If they actually make Hard rather than PotD the right difficult to play on, that's one of the biggest inclines this game will deliver

 

[Lacrymas]

No, I was replying to AwesomeButton's assessment of whether characters play like each other like in PoE1. I was just going to say that maybe I'll play it on Hard first, since PotD is such a mess right now.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Are you guys just randomly monologuing now?

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
the heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks
that Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; aye, there's the rub,
for in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
when we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
must give us pause. There's the respect
that makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
the Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely,
the pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
the insolence of Office, and the spurns
that patient merit of the unworthy takes,
when he himself might his Quietus make
with a bare Bodkin? Who would Fardels bear,
to grunt and sweat under a weary life,
but that the dread of something after death,
the undiscovered country, from whose bourn
no traveller returns, puzzles the will,
and makes us rather bear those ills we have,
than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
and thus the native hue of Resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
with this regard their Currents turn awry,
And lose the name of Action. Soft you now,
The fair Ophelia? Nymph, in thy Orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

 

[Grunker]

If they actually make Hard rather than PotD the right difficult to play on, that's one of the biggest inclines this game will deliver

why..?

 

[Prime Junta]

If they actually make Hard rather than PotD the right difficult to play on, that's one of the biggest inclines this game will deliver

why..?

Because that would make PotD a genuine challenge for the genuinely hardcore. P1 definitely had room for another difficulty level above PotD, this would accomplish it.

That said, I very much doubt this is going to happen. Josh balances shit by halving and doubling; the last build was a bit easier than it ought to be, so this is naturally a bit harder. It'll settle down somewhere between the two.

 

[Grunker]

The reason I like PotD isn't the beefed up stats as much as the additional enemies and such. If they're going to make PotD artificially hard by just dialing up the numbers, but then in turn not grant Hard the additional enemies, that's gonna suck

 

[Lacrymas]

The numbers should be dialed up on PotD, especially defenses, as that is the only context in which the system makes sense. They are too dialed up in the beta currently, though. The extra enemies are a bit eyebrow-raising, however, as they feel randomly populated and don't add anything all that much. They feel like filler just to say "look, PotD is different!" because they don't have a lot of thought put into them. Kind of like the entire PotD, tbh.

 

[Grunker]

Of course they should be dialed up. I'm talking about dialing them up much more than original PoE while simultaneously not granting Hard the additional enemies. I would not enjoy that split, I think.

 

[aweigh]

potd should be modular. stuff like epert mode and level scaling is already a toggle why not add a toggle for potd - more spawns and potd - supreme defenses etc etc

default game difficulty upon which it is balanced should then be Hard with the people seeking a further challenge now having access to multiple toggles in PotD mode

 

[Prime Junta]

The reason I like PotD isn't the beefed up stats as much as the additional enemies and such. If they're going to make PotD artificially hard by just dialing up the numbers, but then in turn not grant Hard the additional enemies, that's gonna suck

I thought PotD was a bit of a mixed bag with the enemies actually. It did make some of the fights more interesting but it also made the trash fights more monotonous.

 

[FreeKaner]

I don't think I'll play this game on POTD, there are way too many design decisions that trigger me both on principle and in practice. Hopefully the content is good.

 

[AwesomeButton]

P1 definitely had room for another difficulty level above PotD, this would accomplish it.

PoE has room for fixed pacing combat, which room is still unoccupied. PotD is more quantity of the same quality most of the time, even after all the patching. Inherent issues with how combat plays and how a playstyle is forced on the player are still there, regardless of difficulty.

PotD with 5 party memebers (custom ones in my case) feels indeed challenging though, with thinking actually required about the order in which to take combat encounters and quests. I'm finding it interesting so far.

I don't think I'll play this game on POTD, there are way too many design decisions that trigger me both on principle and in practice. Hopefully the content is good.

I don't think I'll even play it unmodded.

 

[Grunker]

The reason I like PotD isn't the beefed up stats as much as the additional enemies and such. If they're going to make PotD artificially hard by just dialing up the numbers, but then in turn not grant Hard the additional enemies, that's gonna suck

I thought PotD was a bit of a mixed bag with the enemies actually. It did make some of the fights more interesting but it also made the trash fights more monotonous.

I dunno. Some of my favourite fights are the drawn out Languafeaatehiehrsethsetesth "trash" fights. The dynamics of the different enemies coupled with there being so many make them great plays.

The best examples of course is the kobold and Vithrack fights in the mine.

 

[Iskramor]

P1 definitely had room for another difficulty level above PotD, this would accomplish it.

PoE has room for fixed pacing combat, which room is still unoccupied. PotD is more quantity of the same quality most of the time, even after all the patching. Inherent issues with how combat plays and how a playstyle is forced on the player are still there, regardless of difficulty.

PotD with 5 party memebers (custom ones in my case) feels indeed challenging though, with thinking required about in what order to take combat encounters and quests. I'm findig it interesting so far.

I don't think I'll play this game on POTD, there are way too many design decisions that trigger me both on principle and in practice. Hopefully the content is good.

I don't think I'll even play it unmodded.

Well modders did shity work on dos 2 which was agressivly marketed and more popular so why do you think they are going to do better job with deadfire?

 

[Maculo]

The reason I like PotD isn't the beefed up stats as much as the additional enemies and such. If they're going to make PotD artificially hard by just dialing up the numbers, but then in turn not grant Hard the additional enemies, that's gonna suck

I thought PotD was a bit of a mixed bag with the enemies actually. It did make some of the fights more interesting but it also made the trash fights more monotonous.

I dunno. Some of my favourite fights are the drawn out Languafeaatehiehrsethsetesth "trash" fights. The dynamics of the different enemies coupled with there being so many make them great plays.

The best examples of course is the kobold and Vithrack fights in the mine.

The Fishmen fights are surprisingly good on PotD. The groups have a nice mix of tanky enemies, mages, and cc/damage. In my last fight, the mages would hit with 80 damage necrotic lances or magic missiles (that leap between foes). The damage dealer fish would hit my Priest or Mage with paralyzing darts. If I tried to cast empowered fireball, either the mage or the rogue would cast an AoE distract/stun to interrupt the spell.

 

[Infinitron]

Ooh: https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=12#post482675016

 

[CptMace]

What does he mean by more punishing ?
I thought the pen/ar system went from the 3 thresholds (-70%, 0%, 30% mod) to the one we have now, which is less punishing and arguably better.
edit : oh he's talking about the change from 1st to 2nd game, got it.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah, spellcasters can dish out more damage now because of the Pen change, it's actually more due to that than to the reduced casting times. You still have limited spells per encounter, so the overall damage potential between "fast" or slow casting is the same, but they can do more of it now.

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

The arguments about POTD are given me one of those “can’t tell whether I’m the one who doesn’t get it or I’m the only one who gets it” conundrums. The way I look at it, Hard or Veteran or Battle-scared or whatever, should be the tuned and balanced to be the hardest reasonable challenge for like 99.9% of players. POTD should basically be an unbalanced mess created to fuck with edgelords and people who hate themselves...which, given all the complaints after the latest patch, it is on the way to being, though still not quite there.

 

[fantadomat]

The arguments about POTD are given me one of those “can’t tell whether I’m the one who doesn’t get it or I’m the only one who gets it” conundrums. The way I look at it, Hard or Veteran or Battle-scared or whatever, should be the tuned and balanced to be the hardest reasonable challenge for like 99.9% of players. POTD should basically be an unbalanced mess created to fuck with edgelords and people who hate themselves...which, given all the complaints after the latest patch, it is on the way to being, though still not quite there.

I do agree with you mate. Also it is no 0.1 percent of players,apparently it is 0.6 percent.

0.1 percent are the people that actually finished all the things in the game on higher difficulty and not just gamed the game and skipped half the content.