Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[TT1]

I said since the start of the Pillars of Eternity beta that melee damage output and ranged damage output should be governed by two different stats. Put spell damage on intellect while we are at it.

For me, Intelligence affect the damage of spells does not and has never made sense since D&D. I dont know, I just dont like it. It never seemed right to me. In D&D, Wisdom seemed to be a better option and in PoE Resolve seems to be the right choice.


For me, the logical solution should be this:

Melee weapons and bows -> Strenght
Wand, scepter, rod and spells -> Resolve

Resolve reflects a character's internal drive, determination, fearlessness, and the emotional intensity they can project to others. It can be useful for mental intimidation, leadership, and convincing performances.

Crossbow, arbalest and firearms-> No damage added or reduced

 

[Abu Antar]

I said since the start of the Pillars of Eternity beta that melee damage output and ranged damage output should be governed by two different stats. Put spell damage on intellect while we are at it.

For me, Intelligence affect the damage of spells does not and has never made sense since D&D. I dont know, I just dont like it. It never seemed right to me.


For me, the logical solution should be this:

Melee weapons and bows -> Strenght
Wand, scepter, rod and spells -> Resolve

Resolve reflects a character's internal drive, determination, fearlessness, and the emotional intensity they can project to others. It can be useful for mental intimidation, leadership, and convincing performances.

Crossbow, arbalest and firearms-> No damage added or reduced

I can live with no more damage on those weapons. You already have modals. You could have something like steady aim, that increases damage but lowers rate of fire. I think the modals are good for this in PoE2.

 

[Infinitron]

Brian Heins has a new gig!

 

[Cross]

Brian Heins, the lead designer of Tyranny? Does that mean he's also helping design Deadfire's multi-classing?

Spoiler

 

[santino27]

I said since the start of the Pillars of Eternity beta that melee damage output and ranged damage output should be governed by two different stats. Put spell damage on intellect while we are at it.

For me, Intelligence affect the damage of spells does not and has never made sense since D&D. I dont know, I just dont like it. It never seemed right to me. In D&D, Wisdom seemed to be a better option and in PoE Resolve seems to be the right choice.


For me, the logical solution should be this:

Melee weapons and bows -> Strenght
Wand, scepter, rod and spells -> Resolve

Resolve reflects a character's internal drive, determination, fearlessness, and the emotional intensity they can project to others. It can be useful for mental intimidation, leadership, and convincing performances.

Crossbow, arbalest and firearms-> No damage added or reduced

To me, bows should be the same as crossbow, arbalest, and firearms... dmg not affected by any stats. Strength makes sense for THROWN weapons (axes, knives, spears), but for bows, strength should only be a a deciding factor on whether the given character can use it (i.e. minimum stat requirement). It may take a certain strength to draw on Bow A vs. Bow B, and as a result, Bow A will likely have higher dmg... but that's different from strength being added to the damage calculation.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

To me, bows should be the same as crossbow, arbalest, and firearms... dmg not affected by any stats. Strength makes sense for THROWN weapons (axes, knives, spears), but for bows, strength should only be a a deciding factor on whether the given character can use it (i.e. minimum stat requirement). It may take a certain strength to draw on Bow A vs. Bow B, and as a result, Bow A will likely have higher dmg... but that's different from strength being added to the damage calculation.

RPGs have to be realistic.

 

[cannondwarf]

I said since the start of the Pillars of Eternity beta that melee damage output and ranged damage output should be governed by two different stats. Put spell damage on intellect while we are at it.

For me, Intelligence affect the damage of spells does not and has never made sense since D&D. I dont know, I just dont like it. It never seemed right to me. In D&D, Wisdom seemed to be a better option and in PoE Resolve seems to be the right choice.


For me, the logical solution should be this:

Melee weapons and bows -> Strenght
Wand, scepter, rod and spells -> Resolve

Resolve reflects a character's internal drive, determination, fearlessness, and the emotional intensity they can project to others. It can be useful for mental intimidation, leadership, and convincing performances.

Crossbow, arbalest and firearms-> No damage added or reduced

To me, bows should be the same as crossbow, arbalest, and firearms... dmg not affected by any stats. Strength makes sense for THROWN weapons (axes, knives, spears), but for bows, strength should only be a a deciding factor on whether the given character can use it (i.e. minimum stat requirement). It may take a certain strength to draw on Bow A vs. Bow B, and as a result, Bow A will likely have higher dmg... but that's different from strength being added to the damage calculation.

How does that make any sense? Unless there's something I'm not getting, the more strength you put into the draw, the more kinetic energy should be stored in the bowstring, thus making a strong guy shoot with more force than a weak guy?

 

[Quillon]

I said since the start of the Pillars of Eternity beta that melee damage output and ranged damage output should be governed by two different stats. Put spell damage on intellect while we are at it.

For me, Intelligence affect the damage of spells does not and has never made sense since D&D. I dont know, I just dont like it. It never seemed right to me. In D&D, Wisdom seemed to be a better option and in PoE Resolve seems to be the right choice.


For me, the logical solution should be this:

Melee weapons and bows -> Strenght
Wand, scepter, rod and spells -> Resolve

Resolve reflects a character's internal drive, determination, fearlessness, and the emotional intensity they can project to others. It can be useful for mental intimidation, leadership, and convincing performances.

Crossbow, arbalest and firearms-> No damage added or reduced

In that case those 3 could have recoil or something, some debuff; -DEX/reflex, blindness etc for a short time after shooting and STR could reduce that time.

 

[Iznaliu]

Brian Heins has a new gig!

Do we really need a third multi-classing update?

 

[Infinitron]

It's a stream, not an update. I guess he'll run through various multiclass characters and demonstrate their kool abilities.

 

[Lacrymas]

They'll probably talk about the changes they intend to make rather than information we already know. Maybe they'll talk about the irrelevancy of single-classed characters and what they are going to do about it. What Infinitron said is a good guess, too.

 

[Sentinel]

It also has the side effect of stretching points a little thin for druids (who need Strength for their spiritshift forms)

Wow, you actually have to build your character depending on what you want to use? Blasphemy!

Lmao. It's fun seeing Sawyer backpedal on so much shit he implemented in PoE and got told by grognards was a shit idea (no immunities being the other big one). I hope he doesn't go back on this, faggots who supported "Might" are the absolute worst.

 

[Sensuki]

Which attributes govern which combat stats & mechanics doesn't matter anywhere near as much as how those mechanics actually work.

 

[santino27]

I said since the start of the Pillars of Eternity beta that melee damage output and ranged damage output should be governed by two different stats. Put spell damage on intellect while we are at it.

For me, Intelligence affect the damage of spells does not and has never made sense since D&D. I dont know, I just dont like it. It never seemed right to me. In D&D, Wisdom seemed to be a better option and in PoE Resolve seems to be the right choice.


For me, the logical solution should be this:

Melee weapons and bows -> Strenght
Wand, scepter, rod and spells -> Resolve

Resolve reflects a character's internal drive, determination, fearlessness, and the emotional intensity they can project to others. It can be useful for mental intimidation, leadership, and convincing performances.

Crossbow, arbalest and firearms-> No damage added or reduced

To me, bows should be the same as crossbow, arbalest, and firearms... dmg not affected by any stats. Strength makes sense for THROWN weapons (axes, knives, spears), but for bows, strength should only be a a deciding factor on whether the given character can use it (i.e. minimum stat requirement). It may take a certain strength to draw on Bow A vs. Bow B, and as a result, Bow A will likely have higher dmg... but that's different from strength being added to the damage calculation.

How does that make any sense? Unless there's something I'm not getting, the more strength you put into the draw, the more kinetic energy should be stored in the bowstring, thus making a strong guy shoot with more force than a weak guy?

It's been a few decades since I practiced archery, and even that was fairly limited, but as I recall, a bow has a weak or strong draw in and of itself, depending on size, wood, and other factors, which is why there are bows that some people can use and some people cannot. If you can fully draw the bow (i.e. nock the arrow, and pull it all the way back), then additional stength is not going to change anything, unlike, for example, an axe that can be thrown that much harder. (To use your terminology, there's a maximum amount of tension for the given bow, after which additional strength is immaterial. So applying strength/might which ALWAYS scales damage upward as your strength increases doesn't make a whole lot of sense.)

If you were too weak to draw it fully, you might be able to do a partial draw, but I think that would impact more than just damage. (As a child, trying to shoot a bow that was too much for me severely impacted my chance of hitting anything). That's why I think there should be a stat minimum on the weapon, rather than a stat-driven dmg increase, regardless of what AD&D decided in 2nd edition.

Someone with more recent experience will no doubt correct me.

 

[mortimermcmire]

It's been a few decades since I practiced archery, and even that was fairly limited, but as I recall, a bow has a weak or strong draw in and of itself, depending on size, wood, and other factors, which is why there are bows that some people can use and some people cannot. If you can fully draw the bow (i.e. nock the arrow, and pull it all the way back), then additional stength is not going to change anything, unlike, for example, an axe that can be thrown that much harder. (To use your terminology, there's a maximum amount of tension for the given bow, after which additional strength is immaterial. So applying strength/might which ALWAYS scales damage upward as your strength increases doesn't make a whole lot of sense.)

If you were too weak to draw it fully, you might be able to do a partial draw, but I think that would impact more than just damage. (As a child, trying to shoot a bow that was too much for me severely impacted my chance of hitting anything). That's why I think there should be a stat minimum on the weapon, rather than a stat-driven dmg increase, regardless of what AD&D decided in 2nd edition.

Someone with more recent experience will no doubt correct me.

this is correct. there are bows with heavier draw weights (50 lbs is normal for hunting, 60 lbs will shoot through the deer, no one uses anything above that, really) which does affect the impact of the arrow, but ultimately above 60 lbs its pretty pointless. you're better off changing the type of arrow you use rather than just adding more force.

 

[Mastermind]

Crossbow, arbalest and firearms-> No damage added or reduced

I'd link them to int instead. those kinds of weapons need routine maintenance and i can see a smarter character taking better care of them. it's good to link all weapon damage to attributes so they don't become the obvious choice for a character who isn't otherwise specialized in any particular weapon.

 

[Background Character]

Besides everybody knows Sawyer only hates two things: fun and wizards.

 

[Fry]

Sawyer is being far more reactive to internet bitching than I would have thought.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm starting to suspect we're looking at a 6 month beta and a summer release.

 

[Quillon]

Crossbow, arbalest and firearms-> No damage added or reduced

I'd link them to int instead. those kinds of weapons need routine maintenance and i can see a smarter character taking better care of them. it's good to link all weapon damage to attributes so they don't become the obvious choice for a character who isn't otherwise specialized in any particular weapon.

One does not need to be smart to be handy at something therefore dex is more important for those weps' maintenance and also on operating them so lololo

Accuracy should effect their damage: after hit/graze threshold any additional attack roll points should increase the damage dynamically, which also means no critical hits for ranged weps. You can't get more realistic than this :ehue:

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Besides everybody knows Sawyer only hates two things: fun and wizards.

He also probably hates gunslingers, because I can't imagine how Strength can affect shooting with gun. Aim at target - Perception. How fast marksman can draw weapon - Dexterity. Constitution - slightly influence on reaction of drawback from weapon during shooting (how far your character would fly after drawback from hand cannon). Intelligence - how your character behave weapon (cleaning and repair). Resolve - can handle character view remaining pieces of his target after shot or going to puke (high caliber weaponry can make meat salad from target) But Strength... There two main reasons why firearms started being used and popular in armies:

1) They can pierce any kind of metal armor.

2) Strength of user does not affect damage which target receive, you not need to be a body builder to use them, basically anyone can use them.

I am understanding why devs always "forget" about first reason - for sake of balance, perhaps (you need to keep primitive sticks with strings relevant, somehow I am right?). But second reason you can't ignore, at all.

I was in hope that firearms would do normal damage, but seems guns would be again sub bar low dps toy. If I understand, whats going on with attributes, ofc.

 

[FreeKaner]

Rename Strength to Weapons. In fact, split it into Small Weapons and Big Weapons, we can then also add Energy Weapons for wands and sceptres.

 

[Mastermind]

He also probably hates gunslingers, because I can't imagine how Strength can affect shooting with gun.

Recoil. Like pushing off a shopping cart vs pushing off a wall. The low strength character is the shopping cart, the high strength character is the wall.

 

[santino27]

He also probably hates gunslingers, because I can't imagine how Strength can affect shooting with gun.

Recoil. Like pushing off a shopping cart vs pushing off a wall. The low strength character is the shopping cart, the high strength character is the wall.

Sure, but that impacts accuracy (and potentially firing speed), not damage, like strength is proposed to do in the new system.

 

[TigerKnee]

Sawyer, 2015: D&D is a flawed system! I can make it better! I'll show them, I'll show them all!!!

Sawyer, Present Day: *Rolls back yet another mechanic to D&D implementation* My empire... crumbled to dust before my eyes...

 

[Quillon]

Sure, but that impacts accuracy (and potentially firing speed), not damage

But realistically accuracy should impact damage