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Game News Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter Update #71: The Heavy Hitters: Rogues and Rangers

hiver

Guest
Oh, and the best part about the update, my favourite: anyone notice the SNEAK Attack ?

Sneak Attack - Sneak Attack applies bonus damage to the rogue's ranged and melee weapon attacks when the target has any of the following statuses: Blinded, Flanked, Hobbled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Prone, Stuck, Stunned, or Weakened. It also applies to any target the rogue strikes with a weapon within the first 2 seconds of combat starting.
Read that again: it works when your target is already in an alarmed state where his or her capabilities are temporarily hampered. That is supposed to be a sneak attack.
Not when your opponent is merely unaware, suspicious, sleeping or what have you, but when he or she is fully involved in a conflict, alarmed and aware of the dangers except with a penalty.
Yes? So? How is being blinded, hobbled, paralyzed, petrified, stunned - being in an alarmed state, fully involved in conflict, and aware - eh?
Wanna explain the logic of that to me?

All those other status effects would create similar opportunity for a very critical or even deadly single attack.


Yup, amazing logic there, Josh.
Nothing wrong with it. actually. for a comando-ninja fighter.


Those of us who appreciate using well established terms to mean the things they traditionally mean would possibly appreciate a more sensible name for that kind of attack, I think.
Oh, youre objecting the nomenclature.
You know, seeing how those established terms usually describe fuck all in rpgs... I wouldnt mind getting accustomed to other and more varied and engaging meanings.
atleast some change...
 

Johannes

Arcane
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casting coach
I doubt it will be that rigid in the actual game but still if certain classes don't excel in certain roles compared to others then what's the point of having classes in the first place? Differences between ranger, fighter and paladin in IE games were mostly in flavour (though kits and some mods help in that regard), why not make them play more differently?
Otoh in IE games you could dual/multi class, so in practice you had a ton of different options on how to build a character - unkitted single class melee fighters were all quite samey, sure, but you weren't that likely to make such characters anyway. A blade bard, inquisitor paladin, fighter/thief, berserker -> mage, ranger/cleric, all had very different things going for them. But if you just wanted a straight up damage sponge / hard hitter, that didn't require constant micromanagement, that was very possible and it was a fine character too. And they could use all kinds of potions and items each round to make up for their lack of innate abilities in the tougher battles.

And a fighting classes combat role heavily depended on the gear you gave it. What resists, armor class, damage type, etc etc your gear gave your fighter was what defined how he played in a fight - like the spell selection available did for a mage.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I don't see what exactly is the complaint is. Not in the sense that I don't agree, but literally, what is the point of discontent?

Sneak attacks, for example, if you read, they work in any attack where you flank them or you hit them in the first 2 seconds of combat. Sounds like 3E D&D with a bit of extra perks thrown in. I like the ability to switch positions with ally or enemy, though I don't know how that will work in RTwP, that would be a good ability for grid TB.
 

Apexeon

Arcane
Joined
Nov 10, 2012
Messages
864
The artwork is of a very high quality. However I draw way more inspiration for my work from the older IE games.
The current art that has been displayed is highly polished but standard play it safe Fantasy.

I look forward to seeing the art gloves taken off for Torment: Tides of Numenera once they get out of pre-production on Wasteland 2.
 

Johannes

Arcane
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casting coach
The artwork is of a very high quality. However I draw way more inspiration for my work from the older IE games.
The current art that has been displayed is highly polished but standard play it safe Fantasy.

I look forward to seeing the art gloves taken off for Torment: Tides of Numenera once they get out of pre-production on Wasteland 2.
Technically it's good quality but the concepts are often nonsensical to start with.
 

eremita

Savant
Joined
Sep 1, 2013
Messages
797
I like Rangers generally. But I always imagine them as tough and quite versatile motherfuckers. This particular Ranger seems more like a soft archer with pet - more like a WoW Hunter... Well, the description was brief, so I still hope for some more customatization in case of Ranger class...
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Otoh in IE games you could dual/multi class, so in practice you had a ton of different options on how to build a character - unkitted single class melee fighters were all quite samey, sure, but you weren't that likely to make such characters anyway. A blade bard, inquisitor paladin, fighter/thief, berserker -> mage, ranger/cleric, all had very different things going for them.

Sure, but we know that PoE won't feature dual and multi class options (or kits for that matter) so when you can't mish-mash different classes it makes sense that they should make core classes differ more from one another in the way they play to make playthrough with each one provide a different experience.

Also, while I enjoyed playing with all those dual/multi-class and kit options I find that they made certain classes like fighter and thief (which are coincidentally my favourite classes in a CRPG) obsolete, not obsolete as in pure fighter and thief are weaker but provide a different kind of experience (which I would have no problem with, I'm not obsessed with balance in single player games) but as in you get the core class experience + spells and abilities on top of it. Pure fighters and thieves just don't level in satisfying ways that they remain attractive options (THAC0 going down stops being relevant at certain point and I get more thief skill points than I'll ever need) and thus I feel specialization is not rewarded, there are HLAs of course but multi and dual class chars get them too (multi-class chars can choose from more than one pool as well).

To give you an example, why would I play a straight thief in BG2 when I can dual class from fighter at a level 9 (thieves level fast so my main class becomes active very quickly) and still reach 39 level as a thief? I get all the abilities of a thief (hide in shadows, trap disarming, backstab etc.) but I'm also a beast in melee, I basically get two classes in one with very little effort.

But if you just wanted a straight up damage sponge / hard hitter, that didn't require constant micromanagement, that was very possible and it was a fine character too. And they could use all kinds of potions and items each round to make up for their lack of innate abilities in the tougher battles.

Yes, but I want to have the option of playing a character that is a pure melee beast (not thief or caster in any kind of way) but that isn't reduced to boring auto-attack. Not saying I want PoE to go all into ability spam fest like MMO games or MOBAs or whatever but I welcome having a few class specific per encounter and/or modal abilities to make playing such a character more entertaining (for me).

Also, it's possible you'll be able to build such a low maintenance char in PoE as well, we don't know yet how customizable chars will be with abilities, skills, items etc. and obviously stats will play a role as well (hopefully a bigger one eventually than how it seems right now).


And a fighting classes combat role heavily depended on the gear you gave it. What resists, armor class, damage type, etc etc your gear gave your fighter was what defined how he played in a fight - like the spell selection available did for a mage.

Itemization was one of the biggest strengths of BG and IW games, no argument there. Instead of weapons differentiating solely in damage output (DPS crap) they had a wide array of different effects/abilities in those games and had some great item description on top of it (was particulary awesome in IWD where nearly every magical item had an interesting backstory), I hope PoE goes in the same direction in that regard.
 
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Frusciante

Cipher
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
716
Project: Eternity
So lazy strawman magic goo which holds everything together in an arch other than the keystone is still in. Gotta afford those hot interns somehow.

Also shout out to "show some love" to Tim Shafter's Broken Adventures?

felipepepe let your butthurt flow.

Who cares about these Arches? You guys have been discussing nothing else for the last month. The arches havent bothered me for one second. The discussion is annoying though.

Rogue/ranger sound good to me. Abilities seem to be more interesting and better suited to Rtwp then IE dnd abilities. Especially like the movement abilities like escape, switch positions and master's call.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
The arches havent bothered me for one second. The discussion is annoying though.

You've been drinking too much of the Adra, imo, if the arches don't bother you but some people calling them for what they are bother you so much.

P.S. Nobody gives a shit about what bothers you and what not.
 

Arkeus

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,406
You've been drinking too much of the Adra, imo, if the arches don't bother you but some people calling them for what they are bother you so much.

P.S. Nobody gives a shit about what bothers you and what not.
People whing about totally ok design choice for pages is bothersome, yes. Whiners do that to you.
 
Joined
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Messages
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The border of the imaginary
Fanboy,
Broken Age failed to deliver its core promise of its kickstarter campaign.
They already have inroads into the KSer, no reason to spread support for Tim Shafter after he shafted the backers. This shoutout shows how they are encouraging shafting backers as a standard in KSer campaigns.
 

Arkeus

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,406
What is a not OK design choice for you?
Something that affect the gameplay, story, lore or visuals and does so in a negative way.

This only affect the visuals and does so for more graphic porn goodness, so it's a good design choice?
 

Monty

Arcane
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,582
Location
Grognardia
People whing about totally ok design choice for pages is bothersome, yes.

The Codex being critical of design choices, whatever next. This is going to ruin the Dex's reputation as a bastion of peace, love and good cheer.
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Fanboy,
Broken Age failed to deliver its core promise of its kickstarter campaign.
They already have inroads into the KSer, no reason to spread support for Tim Shafter after he shafted the backers. This shoutout shows how they are encouraging shafting backers as a standard in KSer campaigns.

He's right in a sense though, I doubt Inxile and especially Obsidian would have had the stones to try kickstarter (that soon atleast) without Schafer successfully doing it first.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,963
Some of those screenshots weirdly look less professional than BG2, years of technological polish notwithstanding. I guess they weren't exaggerating when they said they had interns doing lots of work.

inb4notfinalpolishpass.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258
You've been drinking too much of the Adra, imo, if the arches don't bother you but some people calling them for what they are bother you so much.

P.S. Nobody gives a shit about what bothers you and what not.
People whing about totally ok design choice for pages is bothersome, yes. Whiners do that to you.

Not others' fault that you are incapable of intelligent observations. Perhaps you are at the wrong forum.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
Some of those screenshots weirdly look less professional than BG2, years of technological polish notwithstanding. I guess they weren't exaggerating when they said they had interns doing lots of work.

inb4notfinalpolishpass.
Those screens can't be final, it looks like they forgot to add lighting and other details to the scenes.
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
It's A LOT of fun reading of people that complain about the efforts of a game designer to make an CRPG that is 80% about combat balanced.

Of course, it's better to have a "fun" character development system (btw, people really think that 3.5 ED is fun?) and billions of boring-to-death, unbalanced and redundant combats. After all, we will spend only 50-80 hours killings things in PoT :asd:...
 

Lancehead

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
1,550
What is a not OK design choice for you?
Something that affect the gameplay, story, lore or visuals and does so in a negative way.

This only affect the visuals and does so for more graphic porn goodness, so it's a good design choice?
The 'adra' is a lore detail, one that sounds like a patchwork. Considering they have trouble accounting for it just in those screens, it's probable it won't be accounted for properly in the rest of the game.
 

Arkeus

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,406
The 'adra' is a lore detail, one that sounds like a patchwork. Considering they have trouble accounting for it just in those screens, it's probable it won't be accounted for properly in the rest of the game.
Are you talking about Adra itself or the images? It's definitelly accounted for in those images (though of course they aren't so well done currently), and lore/quest wize Josh has been talking about Adra since the beginning of the kickstarter, so it seems like it would come up in quests/etc.

I just see people whining for...no reason i can discern?
 

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