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Game News Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter Update #71: The Heavy Hitters: Rogues and Rangers

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
sure. arches who stay up because "it's magic!", while the rest of the structure somehow collapsed anyway are not clever, though.
it's more along the lines of: "this super mutant is immune to radiations but will not go inside an irradiated room because THIS IS YOUR TIME TO DO STUFF".
1) Everyone is assuming that arches are broken because they just fell down for no reason. I'm doubting this is the case. IE a dragon attacks a building made of arches and the tops are going to be gone from it hitting them.

2) Even with adra, the only possible thing that could break on an arch is the top. Otherwise the thing likely fall over from having it's weight oddly distributed.
 

Athelas

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Hmm... Pillars that stay up no matter how badly damaged the rest of the structure is? I guess you could call them...
...pillars of eternity?
:yeah:
 

Scruffy

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Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
1) Everyone is assuming that arches are broken because they just fell down for no reason. I'm doubting this is the case. IE a dragon attacks a building made of arches and the tops are going to be gone from it hitting them.


2) Even with adra, the only possible thing that could break on an arch is the top. Otherwise the thing likely fall over from having its weight oddly distributed.


Fucking raptors everywhere, man.

No, I’m not assuming they fell down for no reason. They are being called “ruins”. I’m therefore assuming the stuff fell down because time and neglect, or for some traumatic even that caused them to become ruins.

In the first case, it doesn’t make any sense. In the second case, it might make sense, but not really.

Let’s say it’s a dragon attack. The “weight” of the attack would still discharge on the pillars, that’s how arches work. If they didn’t work that way, the arch wouldn’t stay up in the first place.

So let’s say that a dragon attacks from above and hits the roof. The force is too big, and the structure breaks (doesn’t collapse, clearly, it only breaks). Basically, what you are saying is that the part that got hit strong enough broke, but the rest stood up, because “adra” kept it together.

Except that’s not how arches work. For an arch to collapse like that, the abutments should have been “pushed” outwards, or the force should have been so great that it makes no sense that the rest of the structure stays up.

So, if it was a great force, strong enough to “break” the structure at the top of the arch, the pillars should have been affected enough to fall down too. Or, if “adra” is strong enough to keep it together, it doesn’t make sense that it stood up that way either.

If “adra” is strong enough to survive the kind of attack that broke those arches, then the explanation is that the laws of physics are different on that world, because those strengths should have weighted evenly on all the structure, not just the top. And therefore, “adra” (what a shit name btw) would have received roughly the same amount of strength through all the structure.

Flying buttresses exist precisely because one of the few ways for an arch to collapse is by “pushing away” the pillars, making the structure imbalanced.


Tl;dr: weight in an arch structure is distributed evenly, so the kind of weight that destroyed the top of the structure would have also destroyed the rest, the “it’s magic” explanation still doesn’t work.
 

Decado

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It's p. solid for the type of game they are making, what the fuck do you expect?

No, it isn't solid, it's fucking boring, that's what it is.

I have a feeling that if he were doing something different, someone would be complaining about that, too.

I swear to fucking god, only on the Codex is a ranger being a ranged-weapon specialist a controversial design decision. Holy shit.
 

nihil

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Project: Eternity
I like it. Sounds like the abilities are game changing enough that, in combination with flanking, "engagement", etc, combat will actually require you to make fun choices and adapt. If they also have good encounter design and enemy behavior, that is.
 

Decado

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So lazy strawman magic goo which holds everything together in an arch other than the keystone is still in. Gotta afford those hot interns somehow.

Also shout out to "show some love" to Tim Shafter's Broken Adventures?

felipepepe let your butthurt flow.

Who cares about these Arches? You guys have been discussing nothing else for the last month. The arches havent bothered me for one second. The discussion is annoying though.

Rogue/ranger sound good to me. Abilities seem to be more interesting and better suited to Rtwp then IE dnd abilities. Especially like the movement abilities like escape, switch positions and master's call.

Gotta agree, dumbest fucking argument in the history of video games.

He made up a paragraph of exposition to explain why the magical rocks in his magical fantasy land can still hold together. Who gives a single, solitary fuck? We're talking about a fiction world where souls have magic powers, where people can kill you with magic words, and where suits of bronze armor with spirits in them are manufactured in a ghost factory. But let's get all wound up over the cement between the rocks. I mean what the fuck?
 

nihil

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So, if it was a great force, strong enough to “break” the structure at the top of the arch, the pillars should have been affected enough to fall down too. Or, if “adra” is strong enough to keep it together, it doesn’t make sense that it stood up that way either.

What if the force came from beneath, from the stairway shaft?

(In any case, the fact that the almost horizontal parts of the arches are still intact simply looks wrong.)
 
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Boxer

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We're here through Bobby Kennedy, Tricky Dick Nixon, Ronnie "The Unionbuster" Reagan and half a dozen other sons-a-bitches.
We'll be here through your weak bullshit, no problem!
~ [strikethrough]Tyrax Lightning[/strikethrough] Pillars
 

Monty

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But let's get all wound up over the cement between the rocks. I mean what the fuck?
The game will be in development for a long time. There will be debates on the Codex about small details, as they emerge. Not sure what's so surprising here.

Can't say I expect anything different when I choose to read the comments on 'Kickstarter Update #71' and there is something obviously retarded to have a good rant about.
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

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The graphics look great. Although I do not like the iso-perspective I almost tend to play this game once it comes out. But then there are no furry races to put into your party, so no thanks.
 

Decado

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But let's get all wound up over the cement between the rocks. I mean what the fuck?
The game will be in development for a long time. There will be debates on the Codex about small details, as they emerge. Not sure what's so surprising here.

Can't say I expect anything different when I choose to read the comments on 'Kickstarter Update #71' and there is something obviously retarded to have a good rant about.

I understand it is par for the course. Doesn't make it any less bewildering/hilarious.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The graphics look great. Although I do not like the iso-perspective I almost tend to play this game once it comes out. But then there are no furry races to put into your party, so no thanks.
There are cat-hobbits.
 

Scruffy

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Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
What if the force came from beneath, from the stairway shaft?

that would be a small as shit dragon

I think he might be talking about an earthquake. A major cause of ancient building-ruination.
that's even worse. an earthquake doesn't make arches stand up like that. and the "it's magic!" explanation still doesn't work.

p.s.
i wasn't being serious about the dragon
also, i don't think he meant an earthquake but something that "hit" the top part of the vault from below

edit more
which, by the way, would make a little bit more sense, but not exactly. If stuff is held up by "magic", why building it using arches anyway? is it a combination of the two things, both the sturdiness of the arch and the magic? In that case, physics would still have a role. If it's mostly the magic, why not building it differently anyway, it'll hold up in any case.

AAAAND i just realized how much i 'sperged in this thread over stuff that doesn't exist, so i'll stop and be happy with whatever shit idea about arches the developers have as long as the game is fun. out~
 
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Durante

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Now, those games have something going in their favor that PE does not. They are turn based.
And here we come to the real meat of the issue: some members on the codex are still butthurt that the best RPG in a year of great RPGs will not be turn based. Most of the ultra-nitpicky complaints about Sawyer and Eternity boil down to this.

FWIW, the way I see it M&M X overcomes the disadvantage of being turn-based by not having significant individual character positioning or animations weighing down the gameplay, and thus allowing you to complete your turn in a single second if you know exactly what you want to do. Blackguards (as a game with significant positioning) isn't nearly as lucky.
 

Shadowfang

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
Hardly any butthurt, just a considerable loss of interest that's being re-forced through lame classes decisions.
But thanks for the strawman.
 

Durante

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I'd call "considerable loss of interest" butthurt. I mean, it's what I experienced after the rigged Torment poll.
 

Athelas

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tCp90.gif
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'd call "considerable loss of interest" butthurt. I mean, it's what I experienced after the rigged Torment poll.

Sounds like the people you're talking about aren't the only ones are butthurt here

Regardless:

No, I don't think most of the people upset about Eternity feel that way because they wanted it to be turn-based all along. Most of them are true fans of the Infinity Engine games, who resent it for trampling on certain cherished D&D traditions.
 

Durante

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I'd call "considerable loss of interest" butthurt. I mean, it's what I experienced after the rigged Torment poll.

Sounds like the people you're talking about aren't the only ones are butthurt here
Yeah, that's what I said. I am majorly butthurt about that. Probably because I thought Torment would play like Torment. But anyway, that's OT.

No, I don't think most of the people upset about Eternity feel that way because they wanted it to be turn-based all along. Most of them are true fans of the Infinity Engine games, who resent it for trampling on certain cherished D&D traditions.
Cherished D&D traditions like what? Physically correct pillar destruction? Classless systems, or a system without clearly defined class roles? I don't remember either of those being an important staple of the D&D CRPGs I played. What I am seeing is an incredible amount of nitpicking (even by local standards) directed specifically at Eternity.

I even agree that the initial stat names/functions in Eternity were really silly (and not just for reasons of tradition), but I don't get why you would have ever expected this game to not have specifically designed class roles. Remember Baldur's Gate and how individual classes actually had entirely separate level-up mechanics? With the whole concept of non-combat skills and skill points just for one class?
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Probably because I thought Torment would play like Torment

kind of a weird thing to think since everybody and their mother hate how Torment plays

Infinitron: I disagree. Both parties definetely have people who are butthurt for idiotic reasons. Like Torment has Durante, so does Pillars of Eternity have FeelTheRads. etc etc
 

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