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Development Info Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter Update #79: Graphics and Rendering (and E3)

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
Larian doesnt have to discuss the mechanics in depth, because they show us everything already in the early access, everything is clear and transparent, theres nothing to discuss, they will deliver what they promised there's no doubt about it ; except the day and night npc schedule and they apologized . While obisidian is hiding a playable demo, for the press only. Guess the unwashed backers doesnt deserves to see it .What is so terrible about it that we cant see it too ?

Obsidian has a lot of different things to worry about, including backers.

You don't go to a show like E3 with nothing to "reveal." E3 is all about generating press and noise, and the best way to do that is to have an exclusive something -- game play footage, revealing a new game, something. I get the sense that Obsidian is really going balls out with this game, and trying to make as perfect a business decision as they can make to show that these kinds of RPGs are still viable. I am also sure they want to sell some copies outside of what they owe for Kickstarted pledges. They are not above playing the marketing game, and neither are they immune to all of the bullshit hype that permeates the video game industry.

So, yeah, saving some exclusive footage for E3 is a smart business move. It will build buzz around the game, and likely get them a whole new round of interviews where they can talk about the game, put it on peoples' radar, and sell more units. As a backer I am perfectly fine with waiting a few extra weeks (if that's what is happening) to see some game play footage, especially if that means Obsidian will get a chance to generate some publicity for the game, and the genre in general.

Sure but then theres no need to do a kickstarter at all ,the smart business move is to find a publisher and just do your thing as usual like professional with marketing pros .Remember that as backer we give our money without any guarantee of anything good nor anything at all, we risk our money, we deserves that playable demo more than the "pro" reviewers at E3 . With all the things at E3 they will be lucky to get 10 lines and a screenshot in a magazine anyway, exclusive demo or not .
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
That music in the background was very good!

That's the same music lots of people were upset about last time.

It sounds better ingame (like I said it would) but it's obviously meant for a small village, not the big city street shown in that video.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,828
Hm the only music track I know of PoE was that upbeat epic orchestra one, don't remember in what video that was.
 

Durante

Learned
Patron
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
140
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Roguey has a point, in that D:OS has undergone some pretty huge game mechanics changes (way larger than even Wasteland 2), changes that haven't been discussed extensively in their Kickstarter updates or here on the Codex. They've gotten kind of a free pass on this stuff.
They've "gotten a free pass" for 2 reasons:
  • The changes generally make sense.
  • They are mostly the direct result of early access feedback.
Larian have used the extended early access period really well.

Didn't like this update.

I don't care much about the graphics or lighting. But if you're going to put some emphasis on that, then I'll have to knitpick.

I don't know how "final" that scene is, but two things bothered me:
- the window bars were not anti-aliased
I liked the update, but I agree that the lack of AA in the window lighting demonstration was extremely distracting.
 
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
mindx2 doesn't give a shit about interviews. He wants to see the game he funded in action - for real, not in five second miniclips. Pillars of Eternity COULD have had a 20 minute gameplay video months ago. Obsidian have chosen not to give that to us.

Wasteland 2.
 

Rake

Arcane
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,969
Sure but then theres no need to do a kickstarter at all ,the smart business move is to find a publisher and just do your thing as usual like professional with marketing pros .
Not quite. That way the publiser will get the profits and the IP. The smart buisness decision is to go to kickstarter, get free money, sale the game as usual with marketing tricks and hype, keep all the profits. Your backers will bitch, but if the game is good they won't give a shit and they will fund your next game as well.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,662
I think it has always looked good, but I'm not much of a graphics nerd (mostly just want aesthetically appealing things, not AA and soft shadows or whatever).

Getting to see the "bed" that the characters walk on as the programmer turned the view was pretty wild, too. I never really thought about how the paths work in correlation to the game world before.
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
Roguey has a point, in that D:OS has undergone some pretty huge game mechanics changes (way larger than even Wasteland 2), changes that haven't been discussed extensively in their Kickstarter updates or here on the Codex. They've gotten kind of a free pass on this stuff.

It is possible that they've been talked about on Larian's own forums, however. As I said, I haven't been following that closely.

They did, extensively, before and after any single alpha/beta update. And they are still doing it.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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Messages
35,656
No, YOU haven't followed the official forum. Simple as that. Maybe if they had a J. Sawyer clone in the team, you'd be more informed about this game, Roguey :asd:...
I've browsed the forums and I haven't seen any developers justify their gameplay decisions. If you're such an expert, how about you link?
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
No, YOU haven't followed the official forum. Simple as that. Maybe if they had a J. Sawyer clone in the team, you'd be more informed about this game, Roguey :asd:...
I've browsed the forums and I haven't seen any developers justify their gameplay decisions. If you're such an expert, how about you link?

These are about the last "hot topic": Changes in the skill system

http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=497177&gonew=1#UNREAD
http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=495313#Post495313

Since the beginning of the alpha I've been discussing with the developers about UI, delayed actions, difficulty, and other topics. And they have always been Extremely transparent
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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Since the beginning of the alpha I've been discussing with the developers about UI, delayed actions, difficulty, and other topics. And they have always been Extremely transparent
That's better than I expected but still no-Josh.
We noticed the bonuses in "Way of the..." were OP because we didn't think everyone would quickly go for "all five points in Way of the...".
Verifying my claims of cargo cult.
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
Since the beginning of the alpha I've been discussing with the developers about UI, delayed actions, difficulty, and other topics. And they have always been Extremely transparent
That's better than I expected but still no-Josh.

Yeah, I know: There is only one Josh.

We noticed the bonuses in "Way of the..." were OP because we didn't think everyone would quickly go for "all five points in Way of the...".
Verifying my claims of cargo cult.

You should explain this "cargo cult developer" thing. My English is not good enough to get the reference.
 
Weasel
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
1,865,661
Since the beginning of the alpha I've been discussing with the developers about UI, delayed actions, difficulty, and other topics. And they have always been Extremely transparent
That's better than I expected but still no-Josh.

Can't wait for the first combat-inclusive demo of POE, the moment of truth for Josh and his disciples.

JYRDmeV.jpg
 

Johannes

Arcane
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Messages
10,487
Location
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Since the beginning of the alpha I've been discussing with the developers about UI, delayed actions, difficulty, and other topics. And they have always been Extremely transparent
That's better than I expected but still no-Josh.

Yeah, I know: There is only one Josh.

We noticed the bonuses in "Way of the..." were OP because we didn't think everyone would quickly go for "all five points in Way of the...".
Verifying my claims of cargo cult.

You should explain this "cargo cult developer" thing. My English is not good enough to get the reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult#Metaphorical_uses_of_the_term
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
Since the beginning of the alpha I've been discussing with the developers about UI, delayed actions, difficulty, and other topics. And they have always been Extremely transparent
That's better than I expected but still no-Josh.

Yeah, I know: There is only one Josh.

We noticed the bonuses in "Way of the..." were OP because we didn't think everyone would quickly go for "all five points in Way of the...".
Verifying my claims of cargo cult.

You should explain this "cargo cult developer" thing. My English is not good enough to get the reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult#Metaphorical_uses_of_the_term

You should explain this "cargo cult developer" thing. My English is not good enough to get the reference.

http://bhargreaves.com/2010/04/cargo-cult-game-design/

Thanks guys. And know that I know what is a "cargo cult game designer", I can safely says that Rogey's wrong again. Original Sin is in many ways a typical Larian's game (even in the ways I dislike), in other ways is a declaration of love to the late Ultima games. Stay assured that it has nothing to do with the "next hot thing".

Larians have made a significant amount of changes to their ruleset during the alpha/beta, but not because they are blindly following the last trend in game design: Simply because Original Sin is a freakin ambitious game, with lots of possibilities normally precluded in party based RPGs. Tying up all these possibilities with a balanced and easy to learn ruleset is not easy at all.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Cargo Cult development is copying what other games did without understanding why they did it in that way, not chasing the next hot thing.
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
Cargo Cult development is copying what other games did without understanding why they did it in that way, not chasing the next hot thing.

And as I've said, they are not copying anyone in particular: this is a typical Larian's game in many regards. So, unless they don't understand what they've done in their previous games, they know exactly what they are doing now.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Cargo Cult development is copying what other games did without understanding why they did it in that way, not chasing the next hot thing.

And as I've said, they are not copying anybody in particular: this is first and foremost a typical Larian's game.

I think what tuluse means is copying at a lower level.

Ie, "an RPG needs to have lots of stats so let's add lots of stats!"

It's about doing "RPG stuff" without having a good understanding of the underlying consequences.
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
Cargo Cult development is copying what other games did without understanding why they did it in that way, not chasing the next hot thing.

And as I've said, they are not copying anybody in particular: this is first and foremost a typical Larian's game.

I think what tuluse means is copying at a lower level.

Ie, "an RPG needs to have lots of stats so let's add lots of stats!"

It's about doing "RPG stuff" without having a good understanding of the underlying consequences.

Yeah, but it's not what they did. Compared to their previous games, the additional "RPG stuff" in Original Sin is largely a consequence of the new turn-based combat system, and secondarily of the new options outside of combat. That's it.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
And as I've said, they are not copying anyone in particular: this is a typical Larian's game in many regards. So, unless they don't understand what they've done in their previous games, they know exactly what they are doing now.
The typical Larian game was blatantly copying what other developers like Blizzard did.
 

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