Development Info Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter Update #79: Graphics and Rendering (and E3)

[Grunker]

I hope I'm being an oblivious idiot like usually.

 

[tuluse]

Is Fable considered bad around here? I figured since everyone liked D:OS so much that I was in the clear, I guess I need to lurk more.

What? How are the two related in any way?

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Is Fable considered bad around here? I figured since everyone liked D:OS so much that I was in the clear, I guess I need to lurk more.

What? How are the two related in any way?

 

[ghostdog]

Is Fable considered bad around here? I figured since everyone liked D:OS so much that I was in the clear, I guess I need to lurk more.

What? How are the two related in any way?

 

[Gakkone]

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Is Fable considered bad around here? I figured since everyone liked D:OS so much that I was in the clear, I guess I need to lurk more.

What? How are the two related in any way?

 

[norolim]

Is Fable considered bad around here? I figured since everyone liked D:OS so much that I was in the clear, I guess I need to lurk more.

What? How are the two related in any way?

 

[J_C]

Everything is shit, as the saying goes. But Fable is pretty good IMO.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dr Schultz]

PROTIP: When Roguey starts defining things as "not gameplay", it's time to unilaterally terminate the argument.

(Josh Sawyer would probably be horrified by this dismissal of important gameplay elements, btw. For the ultimate shiv, try emailing him and asking if dialogue, roleplaying and exploration are gameplay.)

And he probably would be even more horrified by the whole Rogey's idolatry thing :D.

BTW, I can't brofist. Maybe something in browser (Chrome)?

 

[Sensuki]

You have to be a member for a year.

 

[Dr Schultz]

It should work, then :asd:...

 

[Sensuki]

No, it will work on Dec 21, 2014.

 

[Roguey]

(Josh Sawyer would probably be horrified by this dismissal of important gameplay elements, btw. For the ultimate shiv, try emailing him and asking if dialogue, roleplaying and exploration are gameplay.)

I'm absolutely certain he wouldn't. If it did, he wouldn't go on about how RPGs neglect core gameplay in favor of narrative. Role playing and exploring are enjoyable things to do in games when they exist, but they're not gameplay. Gameplay requires a test of your abilities, even if it's an easy test. Exploration (or dialogue) can only be a gameplay element if there's some puzzle-like aspect involved (in which case it's a puzzle).

 

[Sensuki]

Exploration of a map in an RPG is gameplay, just as exploration of a map in an RTS (among other genres) is gameplay.

In an RTS you might be exploring a map looking for resources or scouting, or moving to a revealed location through the fog of war. In an RPG you might be exploring the map for ... oh the same reasons.

 

[Roguey]

The gameplay is the combat you experience while exploring or using the resources you've picked up in combat.

 

[Davaris]

Josh could make a game about exploration.

 

[Sensuki]

The gameplay is the combat you experience while exploring or using the resources you've picked up in combat.

In your own dream world it is.

Age of Decadence says you're wrong, and so do plenty of other games (particularly non-RPG) where combat exists but is not the only gameplay element in the game such as the Civilization series or Crusader Kings II.

I like lots of combat in games, but it is not the only gameplay element in a game, and RPGs can (but usually aren't) do without it.

Non-gameplay is where the player's control is taken away from them, such as cutscenes. Everything else is gameplay.

Combat may be the "core" gameplay of most RPGs, but it, along with "puzzles" are not the only gameplay elements.

I have played games where exploration and movement in the game world has been enjoyable, but most RPGs either go for an all-combat focus or an all-cinematic focus these days as that's generally the cheapest way of doing things. Oh look - cargo cult design

Expeditions: Conquistador last year had non-combat gameplay in simply moving through the game world, it included resource management, decision making, context-sensitive elements and scripted (& random) interactions and dialogues.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Gameplay requires a test of your abilities, even if it's an easy test. Exploration (or dialogue) can only be a gameplay element if there's some puzzle-like aspect involved (in which case it's a puzzle).

Which is exactly what a carefully designed game world such STALKER's (or Gothic's, or Ultima's, or Divinity's), with its secrets, obstacles, inherent threats and not obvious paths, does well. This is also what the flat and boring design of Bethesda game worlds (and by extension of New Vegas), paired with their shitty GPS-like quest markers, prevents. But, of course, until Josh points this obvious truth out, it is not an obvious truth :asd:...

 

[Infinitron]

Don't reply, just send the email to Josh.

Never forget: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ut-the-alpha-here.72670/page-139#post-2629418

 

[Dr Schultz]

Don't reply, just send the email to Josh.

Never forget: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ut-the-alpha-here.72670/page-139#post-2629418

Ahaha...Glorious

 

[Rake]

I'm absolutely certain he wouldn't. If it did, he wouldn't go on about how RPGs neglect core gameplay in favor of narrative. Role playing and exploring are enjoyable things to do in games when they exist, but they're not gameplay. Gameplay requires a test of your abilities, even if it's an easy test. Exploration (or dialogue) can only be a gameplay element if there's some puzzle-like aspect involved (in which case it's a puzzle).

The gameplay is the combat you experience while exploring or using the resources you've picked up in combat.

Grunker
Remember when i said once that i put writing above gameplay, as long as the gameplay isn't abysmal? This is what i meant ...

 

[Grunker]

I'm absolutely certain he wouldn't. If it did, he wouldn't go on about how RPGs neglect core gameplay in favor of narrative. Role playing and exploring are enjoyable things to do in games when they exist, but they're not gameplay. Gameplay requires a test of your abilities, even if it's an easy test. Exploration (or dialogue) can only be a gameplay element if there's some puzzle-like aspect involved (in which case it's a puzzle).

The gameplay is the combat you experience while exploring or using the resources you've picked up in combat.

Grunker
Remember when i said once that i put writing above gameplay, as long as the gameplay isn't abysmal? This is what i meant ...

I'm not sure what your point is. That because of Roguey's misunderstood fundamentalist formalism (which isn't shared by Sawyer, mind), any viewpoint emphasizing the importance of traditional gameplay must be wrong?

 

[Arkeus]

I'm absolutely certain he wouldn't. If it did, he wouldn't go on about how RPGs neglect core gameplay in favor of narrative. Role playing and exploring are enjoyable things to do in games when they exist, but they're not gameplay. Gameplay requires a test of your abilities, even if it's an easy test. Exploration (or dialogue) can only be a gameplay element if there's some puzzle-like aspect involved (in which case it's a puzzle).

Doesn't he also go on about how exploration is one of the major themes of PE, and have been on record many times saying that he wanted to put secondary ways to succeed at most quests that don't involve combat in order to, shall we say, accept different types of gameplay?

Hence the whole "you don't get XP by killing people, but by succeeding at quests or exploring remote places".

 

[Dr Schultz]

No, it will work on Dec 21, 2014.

Sorry, I misread "you have to be member of the year". I thought it was a joke.

 

[Rake]

I'm absolutely certain he wouldn't. If it did, he wouldn't go on about how RPGs neglect core gameplay in favor of narrative. Role playing and exploring are enjoyable things to do in games when they exist, but they're not gameplay. Gameplay requires a test of your abilities, even if it's an easy test. Exploration (or dialogue) can only be a gameplay element if there's some puzzle-like aspect involved (in which case it's a puzzle).

The gameplay is the combat you experience while exploring or using the resources you've picked up in combat.

Grunker
Remember when i said once that i put writing above gameplay, as long as the gameplay isn't abysmal? This is what i meant ...

I'm not sure what your point is. That because of Roguey's fundamentalist formalism (which isn't shared by Sawyer, mind), any viewpoint emphasizing the importance of gameplay must be wrong?

No point really. Never said that either viewpoint is wrong(not even Roguey's, i disagree with her but i can see where she comes from), or that mine is the correct one. In fact i believe that gameplay is the most importand element for most people, IF we include in it every way that the player interacts with the game, not just combat or tests of his ability. If we go by Roguey's definition (and i know others believe so as well) not so much.
Yourself has said that half the Codex doesn't give a shit about core gameplay. What that "core gameplay", that Codex doesn't care about, is? Because unless i got that wrong, your definition can't be that far away from Roguey's.
And that's the main reason i called you. Because i believe you agree with Roguey at some degree, but you will express it in a less trollish manner. I'm not stupid enough to go to an arguement with her...