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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

Sannom

Augur
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Apr 11, 2010
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This is only true for really small projects (such as board games - Exploding Kittens, anyone?), but computer games can always be made bigger (and more expensive). PoE reached all of its stretch goals, and what we got was very different than what would have been if they only made the minimal amount of pledge money.
Well, thanks for that, I was wondering what they meant.

It's true that for project that can't afford stretch goals, one could wonder what the extra money will be used for.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
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Oct 10, 2015
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Sorry, I was talking in general terms, mixing up various Kickstarters, to give a general opinion about the platform.

The case of going for N funding and then getting N x4 is Mighty no. 9. The quality is adequate for N money, but not for N x4.

About PoE, I just don't know. One of the selling points was the Caed Nua megadungeon and I didn't like it, so...

As Sizzle says, Kickstarter is also a dangerous venture for known companies. If they fail to deliver, their image is affected significantly. They get the money, yes, but it's short-term if you don't gain prestige or at least keep what you have. Individuals have it easier, they grab the money and flee to some island in the Pacific (Inafune).

As one who didn't fund PoE I'm not really one to talk, remember that there was widespread worry about the game's quality before it was released, and I was influenced by that too. Looking back I wouldn't have funded it anyway so all is good. It's just that as one with a long career in videogames the modern environment is disappointing. And it's sad, because I really thought for some time that PoE was going to be the next big thing.
 

Fry

Arcane
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Aug 29, 2013
Messages
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The real problem with Kickstarter is that if you ask for a million and get 4 million you still make a game worth a million.

Considering a modern AAA RPG costs something like 25 times that amount, I think what they did with $4 million is actually pretty impressive. What any given game is "worth" is obviously highly subjective.
 

Theldaran

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And obviously, objectivity doesn't exist. It only exists on the minds of arrogant, self-righteous bastards that boast they are better than the rest. I have people in mind but none from the Codex.
 
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Pillars of Eternity has come a long way to what I think it's today the best CRPG I have played since Fallout 2,1, Arcanum, Bloodlines, PS:T,BG2 , Kotor2, Fallout: NV, Wastlenad 2 , Underrail and right now NWN2 MOTB. Exactly in that order. I am reaching 400 hours on steam and I can't believe I am still discovering new things, new items, new dialogue. This is what a true RPG be about : reactivity. And PoE does that so well. Even the stronghold that was the weakest of the features it's now packed with quests that upon completion you gain rewards in great items. I sure do hope that TTON will be better then this with it's turn based combat and better story but I don't think it will be more stable and more bug free then PoE.
I didn't forget about Age of Decadence but that game will be most remembered comparing it to Tyranny.
In the end for what it is today I am very happy with what Obsidian Ent. managed to do with this game. Maybe it's not the best of all of the above but it's sure as hell won my heart!
 
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Prime Junta

Guest
TToN combat isn't very promising at this point. It has way more reactivity though.
 
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Finished that MCA novella, weird little thing in form, but i'd guessed ending long afore it came about. Good read, truth, secrets, an a little subplot about lies we tell ourselves. The whole vibe o the novella though (intentionally so I think) was disturbing an disjointed, which fitted with the narrative. Reminded me of early Moorcock a bit.
Where can I get it if I was not a backer?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 

Nihiliste

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Pillars of Eternity has come a long way to what I think it's today the best CRPG I have played since Fallout 2,1, Arcanum, Bloodlines, PS:T,BG2 , Kotor2, Fallout: NV, Wastlenad 2 , Underrail and right now NWN2 MOTB. Exactly in that order. I am reaching 400 hours on steam and I can't believe I am still discovering new things, new items, new dialogue. This is what a true RPG be about : reactivity. And PoE does that so well. Even the stronghold that was the weakest of the features it's now packed with quests that upon completion you gain rewards in great items. I sure do hope that TTON will be better then this with it's turn based combat and better story but I don't think it will be more stable and more bug free then PoE.
I didn't forget about Age of Decadence but that game will be most remembered comparing it to Tyranny.
In the end for what it is today I am very happy with what Obsidian Ent. managed to do with this game. Maybe it's not the best of all of the above but it's sure as hell won my heart!

"Best since underrail" doesn't make a ton of sense as a compliment but I agree that with the expansions and patches (and moderation of my expectations) this has become a very good game. I think PoE2 has a chance to be very good since they can focus more on content and less on engine design.
 

Shadenuat

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wtf all that drama about hard counters and now there are immunities for spells and creatures in last patch
sorry I guess I woke up really late
Just decided to spend a few days playing an isometric RPG and I never tried White March so bought it and checking the new stuff.

Now that dragons can't be knocked down with level 1 spell, can you say Hard difficulty and level 7-8 would be a good playthrough for White March?
Or is PoD still the to-go difficulty?
 

the_shadow

Arcane
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
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So I'm well behind the curve, but I just got around to finishing PoE (without the expansion). Overall... I liked it. It's not *great*, but if you're looking for a game with mechanics similar to Planescape Torment/Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale, it's pretty decent. The narrative is more compelling than Baldur's Gate/IWD, but not nearly as philosophical as Planescape: Torment, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

There was some dumb/annoying stuff I didn't like, particularly:

- Loading times. I can understand a 10 sec loading time for a new outdoor map, but when it involves going into a one room house, what the hell? Yeah, my PC is rather old at this point, but the graphics in PoE are hardly *that* sophisticated. Oh well, I guess that gives you time to do carpal tunnel exercises.

- Stronghold building sub-quest. I hate menial busy work in a video game, especially one which is a money sink, but you have to do it if you are a completion if you want the better ending slide.

- Inconsistencies in difficulty. I tend to whine about difficulty in video games, but my unoptimised party *tore* the final boss apart in under 5 seconds (literally). One moment he's standing there trying to cast a spell, the next moment he is chunks. This is the same adventuring party who got their asses kicked repeatedly by three ogre druids outside of Twin Elms, and whom zombie Raedric's henchmen wiped the floor with when they weren't properly prepared. Indeed, a lot of the wandering random enemies outdoors seem way harder than the enemies you must face throughout the main plot-line. You also level up far too quickly in the later half of the game.

- The sudden narrative importance of the PC in the 3rd act is... contrived. You've been adventuring for what... 2 months, and suddenly you're being chosen by the Gods to take down an immortal champion who has lifetimes of accumulated knowledge and power? The Gods couldn't find *anyone* a bit more skilled and loyal?


I enjoyed the moral complexities of the game. They start off small (is it moral to turn a blind eye to impoverished looters who are stealing scraps from a well off businesswoman?) to deciding the fate of thousands of souls. Ultimately I chose to restore the souls to the Hollowborn, although feeding them to Woedica was *very* tempting, if only to shake up a pantheon of fake-gods who have no issues with playing games with the lives of kith.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
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- The sudden narrative importance of the PC in the 3rd act is... contrived. You've been adventuring for what... 2 months, and suddenly you're being chosen by the Gods to take down an immortal champion who has lifetimes of accumulated knowledge and power? The Gods couldn't find *anyone* a bit more skilled and loyal?

That's because...

...you are revealed to be a being much like Thaos, reincarnating time and time again to oppose him. The old lady says as much. In my opinion, it doesn't integrate that well with the (accidental) biouwac, though.

IIRC there's a point in the late game where you can't backtrack and visit older areas, I don't like it that much but to be fair the time is running and the later acts happen months later, so.
 

the_shadow

Arcane
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Dec 30, 2011
Messages
1,181
- The sudden narrative importance of the PC in the 3rd act is... contrived. You've been adventuring for what... 2 months, and suddenly you're being chosen by the Gods to take down an immortal champion who has lifetimes of accumulated knowledge and power? The Gods couldn't find *anyone* a bit more skilled and loyal?

That's because...

...you are revealed to be a being much like Thaos, reincarnating time and time again to oppose him. The old lady says as much. In my opinion, it doesn't integrate that well with the (accidental) biouwac, though.

IIRC there's a point in the late game where you can't backtrack and visit older areas, I don't like it that much but to be fair the time is running and the later acts happen months later, so.

I do remember something along those lines being mentioned once in the game, but I'm not sure where, and what the exact wording was. I always thought Thaos and the PC were intertwined because
the PC was once an Inquistor who served under Thaos and learned the truth about the Gods. There is no in-game evidence (apart from that one comment) that the PC has a history of opposing Thaos throughout their numerous lives.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
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Messages
1,772
That's it. You have to keep your eyes peeled, because revelations only happen once. In BG1, for example, there was a lot more foreshadowing of the protag's status, and if you played through it 2 times you fully grasped everything.
 

Shadenuat

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Dec 9, 2011
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After all patching game is still too easy on normal/sometimes hard but too obnoxious and grindy (trashmobstrashmobs caves of ogres caves of sahuagin golemsgolemsgolems urrrrrr) on hard/PotD. Dozens of fishies with paralyzing blowpipes 2-shotting Zahua in full plate almost made me stop playing 1st part of the expansion
Obsidian ripping off Bioware OF ALL PEOPLE with their description of dwarven golems and overall very strong Durlag's Tower/Dragon Age dorfs shame shame shame
I hope White March 2 won't be so much about wasting frost beetles, ogres and other shit.

Best moment - an artifact crossbow that levels up if you murder backer npcs with it (I think, have to try it yet)
 
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Shadenuat

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Well there was some wasting of shit but I'd say White March 2 is a point where Obsidian regained their edge in writing and level design. A lot of it seemed as an echo from Mask of Betrayer, but a sad ancient tale of bickering between greek-like gods was the best story piece I got from PoE so far. When I began to realise from where all was coming by listening a song in tavern I opened the lore journal for the first time to read about Ondra. I was pleased that I got where hints were pointing, and I was especially pleased by a completely unique chance to argue with a god because I picked Philosopher's background.
Golems and Kraken were fairly petty enemies to fight due to obscene amount of Soul Weapons in expansion which were easy to upgrade, and because game gave me pwnhammer from space marines chaplain to pwn mega dangerous enemies, which Maneha did with ease. I swear there's one map where 2 mega artifacts are just lying almost near each other protected by bunch of adds and there is a cave with dragon who hoards even more treasure to the boot. That' even above ToB level of magic item saturation.
There was also a nice plot twist due to my choice in Part 1 (I almost said Eder bye but THEN), and it was cool to talk to the golems. The writing was above average with some of that Obsidian seasoning, not completely unique but scratching my curiosity during play.
I'd say weakest part are new companions. They were mostly joking, it's like they didn't take anything happening around seriously. Not that they are hard ass boring serious Palleginas, but it's like something is missing in their personalities. Sagani had more reactivity for the short time I carried her around before exchanging for Devil of Caroc than them all. Devil with her awkward falling flat on face trying to be edgy, and giggly Maneha reminded me of Bioware edgy shits; and Zahua seemed like a wasted potential. It's ironic that they all and others constantly tried to mock Durance, like if a bad larper tried to bite someone who plays role well and just looks worse cause of that.
Plot characters however, mortal and not, were quite fun, even some minor NPCs.

The pacing in levels, aside from shitty not-illithid mines, was a lot closer to "actual RPG" and how Tim Cain (I think) talked about design - you can aggro whole level on yourself, but you can also solve some of those levels Roedric Keep-style.

Not Bad, Obsidian :thumbsup:

P.S. A weird recurring Tentacle-theme however, with two bosses and even a new spell for Wizard glorifying the:mhd:
 
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AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Hehe, I completely agree with both the praise and the criticism. You may like my thread about the TWM expansion.
 

mitochondritom

Educated
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
Totally agree about Meneha, her voice and dialogue seem to be completely at odds with her background and class. She is such a murder machine that I keep her in my party though. I was really impressed with WM1 and thought it was tonnes better than the base game, cemented even more when I went back to Act 2 after it was done. I have just started part two and am pleased that the consensus is that it is even better.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
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Feb 17, 2012
Messages
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Totally agree about Meneha, her voice and dialogue seem to be completely at odds with her background and class.

If they only found a better VA for her, she might have been an okay character.

But it's really jarring hearing her talk about raiding, soldering and slaughtering her way across Eora, delivered in a voice that is more suited to a BioWare Imoen-like saccharine sweet and hyper character.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I think the game as a whole has a problem with its mood oscillating between "dark, realistic, low-key" and "IE games-like slightly wacky feel". I'm not very good at describing it but I hope you get what I mean.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
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Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,473
Can't remember many cases the game gets silly, the only times it goes into slightly wacky territory (but even then, nothing remotely on the level of the BG's) are in some NPC banters and a few of the characters, such as Hiravias (even though he uses humor as a coping mechanism for his perceived inferiority) and Zahua, other times it's pretty somber in tone.

What other examples of wackiness do you mean?
 

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