Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Nimble Dick Crabb]

That list is wrong at least on the number of Goldpact Paladin checks, there are 4-5 in the first act alone.

 

[Prime Junta]

Numbers don't tell the whole story. One of my favourite moments in the game was playing as a priest of Skaen.

That said, it really doesn't make that much difference. Your class is acknowledged here and there but it very, very rarely amounts to anything more than a bit of flavour.

Edit: GM with a blunderbuss is even better

There are scads of possibilities for ranged builds around particular items BTW. There's a certain Marking pistol you can get pretty early, and Marking is a really seriously badass weapon property. Then there's a hunting bow that causes Wounding and synergises beautifully with anything that enhances that -- certain ranger talents, Combusting Wounds, etc. Arbalests which cause Knockdown, a couple of very badass arquebuses, a couple of really good war bows, some excellent crossbows you can get early, and never even mind the Soulbounds. Embarrassment of choices really.

 

[Parabalus]

Most fun:
- Paladin, Wizard, Priest
- why: paladin has the biggest range of build variety, wizards and priests have the most interesting spells and also lots of build variety

Lot of fun:
- Fighter, Druid, Ranger
- why: ranger is stupid powerful and coordinating with Mr. Bear is fun, druid spells are almost as much fun as wiz and priest (but not quite IMO), fighters can really make some high-profile items shine

Not so much fun:
- Monk, Rogue, Barb
- why: they need lots of micro, monk needs deflection and DR fine-tuned so they get wounds at a suitable rate plus I have a dislike for the concept of a class that wants to be hit, barb only really works in gimmick builds or combined with specific items, otherwise it's just a second-rate fighter

Not much fun at all:
- Cipher, Chanter
- why: gameplay is rote as fuck, with the proper AI settings with them the game will play itself

Take this list with a grain of salt.

I found Monk, Rogue and Cipher the most fun as PC precisely because you need micro-managment to get the most out of them. I found Fighter, Ranger, Paladin extremely boring; the main difference is that the first 3 classes have a lot of position/facing/teammate dependent skills, dunno how you came to the conclusion that the AI plays them even remotely adequately compared to the latter. This is based on the (natural) assumption that you will micro your a bit main more than NPCs. Barbarian would probably fit the bill as well.

Grieving Mother with a pistol is nice as a party member if you really want a Cipher, because she doesn't need much microing except for spending a big pool of Focus now and again. Like Junta I wouldn't recommend it for the main character. My first playthrough was with a Cipher, and I think that contributed a lot to why I found combat more dull the first time around.

This is completely opposite of my own experience, which I think goes to show just how much Sawyer succeeded in making different playstyles viable.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. One of my favourite moments in the game was playing as a priest of Skaen.

That said, it really doesn't make that much difference. Your class is acknowledged here and there but it very, very rarely amounts to anything more than a bit of flavour.

Edit: GM with a blunderbuss is even better

There are scads of possibilities for ranged builds around particular items BTW. There's a certain Marking pistol you can get pretty early, and Marking is a really seriously badass weapon property. Then there's a hunting bow that causes Wounding and synergises beautifully with anything that enhances that -- certain ranger talents, Combusting Wounds, etc. Arbalests which cause Knockdown, a couple of very badass arquebuses, a couple of really good war bows, some excellent crossbows you can get early, and never even mind the Soulbounds. Embarrassment of choices really.

Yeah, it's sad how much flak the game gets for it's items being "bland" when there are (more so in the expansions ) many uniques, each of which births a playstyle of their own. I blame the small icons and no drawings.


The latest patch nerfed both sabers and Unlabored Blade .

 

[Grunker]

You need to micromanage Ciphers? wut

Itemization was lacking when the game came out. It's pretty excellent now.

 

[Projas]

Itemization was lacking when the game came out. It's pretty excellent now.

Is that just because of the items WM adds or did they actually make some changes to the items or related mechanics from the core game? I've been thinking about replaying this since people keep saying everything is much better now.

 

[Grunker]

Itemization was lacking when the game came out. It's pretty excellent now.

Is that just because of the items WM adds or did they actually make some changes to the items or related mechanics from the core game? I've been thinking about replaying this since people keep saying everything is much better now.

It's mainly due to three things:

1) More unique items means there is more variety. One of the best things in IE was deciding between 2 items for the same slot that weren't strictly better or worse than each other but just had different effects. With all the WM items, you're in that situation a lot more - picking between 2 pistols where one gives the wielder a Sneak Attack-type effect and one gives additional accuracy to allies attacking the same target, for example.

2) More unique effects. Game is really close to BG2 on this point now. Many items give unique passives that do all sorts of shit: have a chance to summon monsters, reflect arrows, cast spell-type effects on hit, items that give penalties as well as bonuses etc.

3) Soulbound weapons. These are hands down the coolest items I have seen in an RPG. The quest requirements varies from banal shit like "kill X stuff" to "go here and perform a text adventure" and if you can avoid walkthroughs some of the riddles are pretty cool. Sadly, they dropped the ball on these items a bit because crafted unique weapons are typically simply better, but hey, you can't win 'em all.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Yeah, the soulbound weapon are p cool. Too bad they only appeared after TWM

 

[Sizzle]

Yeah, the soulbound weapon are p cool. Too bad they only appeared after TWM

One of them - the sceptre you receive during the "Keep your Keep" quest - is available in the base game (after patch v3.0) as well.

But I understand what you mean. Would have really liked to have played the game for the first time with the 3.4 patch and both parts of The White March, it's an almost entirely different experience now.

 

[Hyperion]

Now I really consider starting the whole game again with a more interesting build than my present dual wielding human fighter.

Ever since the changes to AI, and The White March changed some class abilities, Fighter is the one class that is wholly better wielding a two-handed weapon. None of their abilities have the "full attack" modifier, so dual wielding is wasted. There's a particular great sword with the superb modifier available as early as level 4 or 5 that will make him carry your entire party through the game. Fighters are an anti-micromanagement class until you hit level 13. Gear and talent options allow for a Fighter to hit around 150% damage multiplier, before spell buffs.

But like Grunker said, Paladin is best for a first-time playthrough, especially if you wanna go full tank. Flames of Devotion is also especially good for dual-wielding Paladins, and you can really build around the whole 'Fire' aspect of one as well.

Soulbound weapons. These are hands down the coolest items I have seen in an RPG. The quest requirements varies from banal shit like "kill X stuff" to "go here and perform a text adventure" and if you can avoid walkthroughs some of the riddles are pretty cool. Sadly, they dropped the ball on these items a bit because crafted unique weapons are typically simply better, but hey, you can't win 'em all.

The most recent version of IEMod allows you to enchant Soulbound weapons. Some of them can't have added effects because their max enchantments exceed 14 even at their base form. But, they can all be Durgan-refined, with quite a few that can be given a Lash, and Kith Slaying. It's something to behold, really.

The worst part of all the new gear options, particularly helms, is it has rendered Godlikes kinda bad outside of a couple gimmicky builds.

You need to micromanage Ciphers? wut

I always found the AI setups for Cipher to be lacking. They typically entered the fight wasting their focus on level 1 and 2 powers. Spamming Eyestrike or Mind Blades sucks when you can just attack once, use Amplifying Wave, and giggle as the entire enemy party get knocked on its ass.

 

[Prime Junta]

Imagine that, it sounds like Pillars has almost become a normal game. People arguing builds, tactics, which class is more or less fun to play and so on. Refreshing change.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Imagine that, it sounds like Pillars has almost become a normal game. People arguing builds, tactics, which class is more or less fun to play and so on. Refreshing change.

I decided to have another go today after being thoroughly bored when it first came out, and I ended up playing it all day and having a great time. Hard to pinpoint exactly what's changed - it seems like a large number of small things that all add up. I'm even enjoying the combat. Playing with a cipher main character.

Since I'm even enjoying the story and lore I wonder if I was just expecting too much on release and now having decided it's crap I'm playing it on its own terms with no expectations.

 

[Grunker]

The most recent version of IEMod allows you to enchant Soulbound weapons. Some of them can't have added effects because their max enchantments exceed 14 even at their base form. But, they can all be Durgan-refined, with quite a few that can be given a Lash, and Kith Slaying. It's something to behold, really.

Why didn't I play with this.

Thanks though, good to know!

I always found the AI setups for Cipher to be lacking.

AI? You can't rely on AI for any class on PotD IMO. I'm talking about relative micro when you micro all toons.

In this regard Cipher is automated. You spend the focus when it's there and otherwise it's just auto'ing.

 

[Prime Junta]

I decided to have another go today after being thoroughly bored when it first came out, and I ended up playing it all day and having a great time. Hard to pinpoint exactly what's changed - it seems like a large number of small things that all add up. I'm even enjoying the combat. Playing with a cipher main character.

IMO the one thing that made the biggest difference was AI. In 1.0 they just went for your closest toon and were really dumb about using their special abilities, which meant tank-and-spank was the obvious go-to tactic and combat was really rote. In 2.0 and 3.0 they greatly revised this, which made combat a lot more dynamic. They also fixed party AI, in the earlier builds they were often just running around randomly, switching targets, and what have you; now they're much more controllable even with AI on.

But yeah the fuckton of little changes do add up. It just feels much more together, and less a cluster of systems flying in loose formation.

 

[Sensuki]

Not true. Most enemy types had initial closest sighted enemy clauses that were very quickly (within frames) overriden by something like lowest Deflection or lowest DR. If Engaged, they would usually not break engagement, unless you caught them moving for a free disengagement attack (pretty easy to do). It was also pretty easy to make groups of enemies get stuck on one another due to trying to target backline characters+pathfinding issues.

 

[Prime Junta]

Perhaps the issue was with the pathfinding and that they didn't break engagement then. In any case blocking with a tanky fighter was way, way easier and worked almost all the time everywhere. Whatever the reason, this no longer the case.

 

[you know what time it is]

So with all the patches and shit, is it worth a punt now?

 

[Sizzle]

So with all the patches and shit, is it worth a punt now?

Even the release version was okay, now it's actually pretty good.

It does a lot of stuff better than the IE games, and some (like spells and general itemization) a bit worse.

 

[Haplo]

I'd even say that the itemization is better then in the IE games.
Spells... well, yeah, not quite there. But then again it didn't have decades of game system building behind it like the DnD games did.
Still very rich and atmospheric for what it is. And the Cipher is a new great spellcasting class with unique powers that didn't exist in IE games.

 

[Sizzle]

I'd even say that the itemization is better then in the IE games.
Spells... well, yeah, not quite there. But then again it didn't have decades of game system building behind it like the DnD games did.
Still very rich and atmospheric for what it is. And the Cipher is a new great spellcasting class with unique powers that didn't exist in IE games.

I still miss some of the more unique abilities that IE items had, but PoE's are now more balanced (if a bit more mundane and rarely OP) than the IE ones.

 

[adddeed]

Game is great , i find it weird people are still questioning that. Its pretty much praised by everyone, except a vocal few who are too retarded to grasp the combat or something.

 

[ArchAngel]

You need to micromanage Ciphers? wut

Itemization was lacking when the game came out. It's pretty excellent now.

The game + expansions is not equal to The Game. Did patches alone fix itemization or do we need to waste more money for that shit? Because I don't plan to give more money to Obsidian for little bit of a fix.

 

[Sizzle]

You need to micromanage Ciphers? wut

Itemization was lacking when the game came out. It's pretty excellent now.

The game + expansions is not equal to The Game. Did patches alone fix itemization or do we need to waste more money for that shit? Because I don't plan to give more money to Obsidian for little bit of a fix.

Many items were changed for v2.0 (when TWM 1 came out) to be more powerful/useful. And no, you don't have to have TWM installed to take advantage of those, but TWM does have some of the best items in the game.

 

[Bonerbill]

IMO, WM2 and the patches improved PoE's itemization heavily. I'll even say that you get a bunch of weapons that rival many of the weapons from BG2 and ToB.

Spoiler

There is one weapon that allows non spell users to steal spell...

This is just one example on how much the itemization has improved.

 

[Grunker]

do we need to waste more money for that shit?

Don't play this game without White March. It's the best content, hands down

 

[Prime Junta]

The game + expansions is not equal to The Game. Did patches alone fix itemization or do we need to waste more money for that shit? Because I don't plan to give more money to Obsidian for little bit of a fix.

I may be in the minority here, but IMO the itemisation overall is better without the WMs. They – especially WM2 – have a big bunch of stuff that's just unambiguously better than anything you can find in the base game that many of the base game items lose their appeal. Soulbound items are a lot less cool when everybody gets one or two.

So yeah, both major patches (2.0 and 3.0) did major revisions to the base game items. They are greatly improved both mechanically and in terms of distinctiveness. Also many of the talent adjustments feed directly into how the items work. There's a lot of fun to be had there now if you approach them creatively: especially the items with Spellbinds can be supremely useful when combined with a particular class or character concept.