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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread
- Thread starter Perkel
- Start date
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
^ It depends. The AI prioritizes people in lighter armor and you need to get damaged, so just juggle armor types as you feel it's adequate.
Prime Junta
Guest
no they don't
If you say "best damage dealer/off tank" I'd say "fighter with relatively balanced stats and talents picked for offense." They'll do a lot of damage consistently, the constant endurance recovery will keep them standing longer than others, and if you want to tank, you just switch from two-handed or dual-wield to sword-and-board.
You base dd/off-tanks from many other classes as well. A defensively built rogue will get to more or less the same place as an offensively built fighter (but will play differently). A paladin with a mix of defensive and Flames of Devotion based abilities will work, although that's more of an alpha-striker than a consistent damage dealer. A ranger with a bear pet will get the job done fabulously -- the bear will off-tank, the ranger will do the damage. A melee cipher built for the frontline will work (Biting Whip is a very nasty damage enhancer.) And if you stretch the definition to allow magic for dealing damage... defensively built druid: it'll have excellent front-line survivability, and because many of the best druid spells are cone-shaped, it'll be able to do the damage with those. Don't expect much from weapon damage with that one though. Barb will work. Wizard will work, but you'll be relying on defensive spells and summoned weapons a lot, which will make you rest more often.
(In fact the only ones that don't really work are priest and chanter. While you can build one to off-tank, they won't ever be really good damage dealers, the chanter's higher-level Phrases notwithstanding.)
Monks will work too but they do not work best in heavy armour. Too much armour will significantly impede their ability to rack up Wounds, and without Wounds they're just lacklustre fighters. That on top of the usual armour penalties, which fighters can offset with Armoured Grace (but monks can't). That's in fact one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of monk gameplay at least during the first two-thirds of the game: you have to fine-tune the defences so you rack up Wounds at a reasonable rate but don't get hit so hard you'll go down too soon. Later in the game they get a great Talent which gives an extra point of DR for every Wound they have, so at that point you can pretty much paint them blue and send them in naked.
Give your monk Edér's armour. Early in the game they will go down a lot and it will help. You will rack up some knockout injuries but that's not so bad. There are also a few cool items to look for there with effects that fire when you're knocked out -- that's also a good choice for a monk.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
^ That talent is p. good, unless you go the more active way (aka torment reach spam).
Also, friendly fire gives wounds too so don't be afraid to sit inside some AoE for a boost.
Also, friendly fire gives wounds too so don't be afraid to sit inside some AoE for a boost.
Hyperion
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2016
- Messages
- 2,120
Obviously my first post was way too vague. I figured I'd make it so you can just pick the class, and find out for yourself. The game makes it pretty hard to fuck up a build if you have an idea in mind, and just read the talents.
Most monks dual wield their fists (especially with the boots that give unarmed damage), which reduces the relative penalty imposed by heavy armor, since it only affects recovery time, not actual attack time. It's also why anyone with a firearm should generally be wearing plate - it has no effect on either their attack speed, or reload time. Their recovery time is a very small fraction of their total attack time.
You said it yourself, they go down a lot in the early game. Plate makes sure that never happens. Most enemies that actually require you to use abilities do enough damage that you'll generate wounds faster than you can spend them anyway. Especially in the late areas, like Cragholdt you'll be taking a pounding anyway. The extra damage reduction you get from that talent will be extremely important when you will most definitely be spamming Flagellant's Path to get at those pesky backliners that would otherwise crush your entire party. Because he'll be behind the enemy's frontline, he needs to be as beefy and independent as possible. The WM bounty in the Searing Falls that rewards you with the Maegfolc Skull comes to mind. If you don't get someone behind their beefcakes you're going to get dismantled by Level 6 and 7 spells. Since the Monk will most likely be using the +Unarmed Damage shoes, Shod-in-Faith cheese is not available to keep them up longer, either.
If your Monk is a mix of damage dealer and off-tank, his job is typically to tank at least 2 enemies. With light armor against the difficult enemies, he will likely generate more wounds than he can spend, which is wasted resources. Also in light armor, his health dips too low, too quickly. If you're anything like me, you treat resting as a game within the game, and try to do as much content as possible without needing to do so.
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82367-class-build-the-juggernaut-a-heavy-armored-monk/ This is one of the more popular builds I've seen for Monk and it uses heavy armor. Like Excidium said, you can swap out armor as you need it, but I'm way too fucking lazy for that. It's also why I've avoided using Monk in general for my last few playthroughs, way too much babysitting his command bar for my tastes.
Personally, I prefer Fighter because their passive combined with Shod-in-Faith makes them virtually unkillable against everything but an Eyeless Fire Beam, or a Dragon wing smash, even while wielding Tidefall. They also have no need for Wound generation, and kick ass from the start of the fight. If you need to plug a hole, go for it. If you need to prioritize a backline target - Charge is available without needing 2 Wounds. High DR enemy? Sundering Blow is your go to. Wanna neutralize any threat that isn't immune? Knock Down does the trick and gives your casters enough time to get some big blows in. Large group of enemies about to make their way to your backline? Clear Away is your man. Fighters also have the highest base defenses in the game - so much so it more than makes up for Duality of Mortal Presence. Weapon specialization, and mastery gives them even more absurd amounts of damage. Soulbound weapons are affected by any weapon class talents, so it doesn't even matter if you pick Soldier - using Abydon's Hammer later on will still get the benefit. With resting bonuses, don't be surprised to see your Fighter sitting with 28 - 30 Might at all times if properly equipped.
I've built Hiravias tanky once. It makes his short range spells better (Crushing Wave is AWESOME from the front line), but he bears the risk of getting interrupted a lot, unfortunately. And when you need to cast spells, you usually need to chain cast them. This is when heavier armor starts getting ugly and noticeable on casters.
I've tried a frontline Wizard as well, but have always preferred a mix of range, and mid-line fighter. Concelhaut's Staff is a great level 1 spell to keep equipped on your Wizard for any situation. Slicken, and Chill Fog are probably the other must have level 1 spells. They also require lots of baby-sitting and spell casting EVERY fight to get their stats up to par. CItzal's Lance is level 5 (i think) and another great reach weapon to use. Spamming level 4 spells as a Wizard is pretty much the way to win.
Frontline Priest makes sense from the D&D perspective, but they have the worst base defenses in the game, and it shows. Durance's great Resolve alleviates this a bit, but his shitty Perception and Dexterity offset it just fine. Chanters are definitely better suited for either main tank while dumping dex, or as a gun-toting mid / back row guy, if you have other firearm wielders.
Rogue is the one class I've never played in a serious playthrough. Everything about them is just...boring. They get some cool debilitations, with massive damage potential from passives and lots of Full Attack abilities, but a lot of them are carbon copies with a different status effect. Blinding Strike, Hobbling Strike, Debilitating Strike, Sap are all pretty much the same damn thing. Every time I play, I mean to try and make one but they never fit in the party.
I made the PC a Tidefall-wielding melee Ranger once, and it was really effective to start because of the extra tank, accuracy and damage bonuses against anything my pet and I targeted, and from a RP perspective (which I don't do), but became pretty boring at higher levels because the only talents that aren't ranged-based apply to the pet instead of you.
I'm a 3 front-liner kinda guy. In tighter spaces it can cause some problems, but it allows for flexibility of formations and makes for a HELL of a weapon when I only need 2 guys to block my back row and can send my main tank in with Ectophysic Echo on, and watch as he mangles everything with a Ghostbusters Proton Pack on his back. Works wonders with Charge, Flagellant's Path, or Dragon Leap as well. I also usually put 5 or even all 6 guys in plate because why the fuck not. NEVER need to rest on Hard. I'm also too lazy to be bothered with buffing and shit for PotD. Maybe one day.
Most monks dual wield their fists (especially with the boots that give unarmed damage), which reduces the relative penalty imposed by heavy armor, since it only affects recovery time, not actual attack time. It's also why anyone with a firearm should generally be wearing plate - it has no effect on either their attack speed, or reload time. Their recovery time is a very small fraction of their total attack time.
You said it yourself, they go down a lot in the early game. Plate makes sure that never happens. Most enemies that actually require you to use abilities do enough damage that you'll generate wounds faster than you can spend them anyway. Especially in the late areas, like Cragholdt you'll be taking a pounding anyway. The extra damage reduction you get from that talent will be extremely important when you will most definitely be spamming Flagellant's Path to get at those pesky backliners that would otherwise crush your entire party. Because he'll be behind the enemy's frontline, he needs to be as beefy and independent as possible. The WM bounty in the Searing Falls that rewards you with the Maegfolc Skull comes to mind. If you don't get someone behind their beefcakes you're going to get dismantled by Level 6 and 7 spells. Since the Monk will most likely be using the +Unarmed Damage shoes, Shod-in-Faith cheese is not available to keep them up longer, either.
If your Monk is a mix of damage dealer and off-tank, his job is typically to tank at least 2 enemies. With light armor against the difficult enemies, he will likely generate more wounds than he can spend, which is wasted resources. Also in light armor, his health dips too low, too quickly. If you're anything like me, you treat resting as a game within the game, and try to do as much content as possible without needing to do so.
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82367-class-build-the-juggernaut-a-heavy-armored-monk/ This is one of the more popular builds I've seen for Monk and it uses heavy armor. Like Excidium said, you can swap out armor as you need it, but I'm way too fucking lazy for that. It's also why I've avoided using Monk in general for my last few playthroughs, way too much babysitting his command bar for my tastes.
Personally, I prefer Fighter because their passive combined with Shod-in-Faith makes them virtually unkillable against everything but an Eyeless Fire Beam, or a Dragon wing smash, even while wielding Tidefall. They also have no need for Wound generation, and kick ass from the start of the fight. If you need to plug a hole, go for it. If you need to prioritize a backline target - Charge is available without needing 2 Wounds. High DR enemy? Sundering Blow is your go to. Wanna neutralize any threat that isn't immune? Knock Down does the trick and gives your casters enough time to get some big blows in. Large group of enemies about to make their way to your backline? Clear Away is your man. Fighters also have the highest base defenses in the game - so much so it more than makes up for Duality of Mortal Presence. Weapon specialization, and mastery gives them even more absurd amounts of damage. Soulbound weapons are affected by any weapon class talents, so it doesn't even matter if you pick Soldier - using Abydon's Hammer later on will still get the benefit. With resting bonuses, don't be surprised to see your Fighter sitting with 28 - 30 Might at all times if properly equipped.
I've built Hiravias tanky once. It makes his short range spells better (Crushing Wave is AWESOME from the front line), but he bears the risk of getting interrupted a lot, unfortunately. And when you need to cast spells, you usually need to chain cast them. This is when heavier armor starts getting ugly and noticeable on casters.
I've tried a frontline Wizard as well, but have always preferred a mix of range, and mid-line fighter. Concelhaut's Staff is a great level 1 spell to keep equipped on your Wizard for any situation. Slicken, and Chill Fog are probably the other must have level 1 spells. They also require lots of baby-sitting and spell casting EVERY fight to get their stats up to par. CItzal's Lance is level 5 (i think) and another great reach weapon to use. Spamming level 4 spells as a Wizard is pretty much the way to win.
Frontline Priest makes sense from the D&D perspective, but they have the worst base defenses in the game, and it shows. Durance's great Resolve alleviates this a bit, but his shitty Perception and Dexterity offset it just fine. Chanters are definitely better suited for either main tank while dumping dex, or as a gun-toting mid / back row guy, if you have other firearm wielders.
Rogue is the one class I've never played in a serious playthrough. Everything about them is just...boring. They get some cool debilitations, with massive damage potential from passives and lots of Full Attack abilities, but a lot of them are carbon copies with a different status effect. Blinding Strike, Hobbling Strike, Debilitating Strike, Sap are all pretty much the same damn thing. Every time I play, I mean to try and make one but they never fit in the party.
I made the PC a Tidefall-wielding melee Ranger once, and it was really effective to start because of the extra tank, accuracy and damage bonuses against anything my pet and I targeted, and from a RP perspective (which I don't do), but became pretty boring at higher levels because the only talents that aren't ranged-based apply to the pet instead of you.
I'm a 3 front-liner kinda guy. In tighter spaces it can cause some problems, but it allows for flexibility of formations and makes for a HELL of a weapon when I only need 2 guys to block my back row and can send my main tank in with Ectophysic Echo on, and watch as he mangles everything with a Ghostbusters Proton Pack on his back. Works wonders with Charge, Flagellant's Path, or Dragon Leap as well. I also usually put 5 or even all 6 guys in plate because why the fuck not. NEVER need to rest on Hard. I'm also too lazy to be bothered with buffing and shit for PotD. Maybe one day.
circ
Arcane
With patches it's actually breddy gud gais. LEEEEL. Did they patch out the shit story and even more shit ending? No? Give me a ramen.
Hyperion
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2016
- Messages
- 2,120
http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Maegfolc_Skull
This one? All classes can use it, and Unbending works on all classes, to my knowledge. It's why it's so goddamned broken. Between Ryona's Breastplate, and this helm, there's very little reason to use a Fighter over Paladin as a Main Tank if you have WM2.
In my opinion, not worth it. Before the expansions, it was a close call, but helms giving +3 Might, +4 Might, +3 Intellect, or +3 Resolve, there's very little positives. They also only get a +1 Dexterity and +1 Intellect, which are, in my opinion, 2 of the more useless stats unless you invest heavily. Fire and Moon Godlikes can build around their passives, the other 2 are very underwhelming.
If you do play Godlike, you need to build your character around that fact to make it worth it.
Infantry
Educated
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2016
- Messages
- 42
I strongly recommend you do so - with story companions, not hired adventurers - as it challenges you to develop each character and compose your team in a manner that leads to the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.
Bonerbill
Augur
Better than Wizards and on par with rogues, so they can't have "the worst."
Hyperion
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2016
- Messages
- 2,120
You're right sorry. My last playthrough I did a lot of fucking around of everyone's base class so I confused myself. Priests have 15 Deflection, Wizards get 10. Their defenses still suck, and Durance needs 3 accuracy talents to put him on par with everyone else.
Mexi
Dumbfuck!
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,811
Okay, I just got started on the White March. I was waiting for it to go on sell and it finally did so I bought it. Anyways, holy shit, pillars of the damned+White March introductory level is a fucking bitch. I dun fucked up from the start. You really have to try not to make your party lose too much health because you can't camp during this first stage. It doesn't let you. My leader only has 1 health and will die if he's attacked at any point. I have to restart the whole fucking thing from the start now and be super careful.
I'm level 7 by the way. Is this too low of a level? It feels a bit low because these fucking monsters are ripping me a new one. I have to be super careful because these damn wolves come out of the sides and flank you at any fucking point. They either go straight for Grieving Mother or Durance and just rip up my front-line support. Some of these bigger monsters with the bazookas are aiming at Sagani and Aloth.
I think I need to switch out Sagani. She's utterly fucking useless here. I like her as a character, so I was keeping her in since I haven't had much opposition except for a few fights. I might put in Kana in her place since these battles last a long fucking time due to the amount of enemies. His chants might be useful here. White March is pretty damn hard. Only thing I'm hating is that they really throw the fucking kitchen sink at you. It's straight raining enemies, and they all have health up to their eyeballs.
I'm level 7 by the way. Is this too low of a level? It feels a bit low because these fucking monsters are ripping me a new one. I have to be super careful because these damn wolves come out of the sides and flank you at any fucking point. They either go straight for Grieving Mother or Durance and just rip up my front-line support. Some of these bigger monsters with the bazookas are aiming at Sagani and Aloth.
I think I need to switch out Sagani. She's utterly fucking useless here. I like her as a character, so I was keeping her in since I haven't had much opposition except for a few fights. I might put in Kana in her place since these battles last a long fucking time due to the amount of enemies. His chants might be useful here. White March is pretty damn hard. Only thing I'm hating is that they really throw the fucking kitchen sink at you. It's straight raining enemies, and they all have health up to their eyeballs.
I did first Stalwart at level 5. It's possible but... not recommended. One of the toughest challenges I've played period, and only possible due to charm shennanigans. Without a Druid it woulden't have been feasible I think.
Prime Junta
Guest
Two.
They're still not great at dealing weapon damage though as they lack any of the damage-enhancing abilities more fighty classes get.
Prime Junta
Guest
It's totally doable at level 7, that's when I hit it the first time (yes, I was playing on PotD). It is a challenge but piss-easy compared to what you'll find in Longwatch Falls for example.
If Sagani is useless then you've either built her wrong or are using her wrong, possibly both. When I have her in the party she's consistently near the top as a damage dealer. Level 7 Kana is ... well not exactly useless, but certainly a lot less useful IME, chanters only really hit their stride around level 9. Having two Vancian casters in the party is very helpful here though.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Messages
- 24,793
I'll say that I hated the 1.0 of this game but I recently tried it again and it seems better now. Not the slam dunk we all want to play but pretty decent given what they have.
Might be I'll get this White March thingy and give it a fair shake later.
Might be I'll get this White March thingy and give it a fair shake later.
Sizzle
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,473
If you can, do try it out. It has some of the best content in the game.
Sizzle
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,473
No, but there's a great little soulbound weapon in TWM2 that rewards killing them :D
Great Deceiver
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2012
- Messages
- 5,904
I played through PoE on release, before any major patches hit. I liked the game well enough to finish it, but there were obvious, glaring flaws, items were too boring, encounters were pretty shit, etc. You've heard it all before.
However, I would like to give the expansions a try. Is it worth playing through again? Is there a 'recommended' order to go do the White March shit? I've read that it's good to do both starting at level 7 or so. Is that right?
However, I would like to give the expansions a try. Is it worth playing through again? Is there a 'recommended' order to go do the White March shit? I've read that it's good to do both starting at level 7 or so. Is that right?
I'd say they're worth a gander. Encounter design is better, the story is fairly good, and the new addition of Soulbound weapons adds a bit more variety to the rather banal vanilla loadouts. Only real complaint is that the new companions are a bit bland (feels like they mostly to exist to fill the remaining class roster) and the whole thing ends somewhat anti-climactically.
Level 7 is around the ideal level to start it, though it does give you the option to scale the content to your level if you go in higher. Second half begins after the first half ends, and presents the same option if you decided to level your party up a bit before starting.
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