Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Prime Junta]

Durance's writing is top notch (well, it's wordy and has some stream-of-consciousness problems, but these are insignificant next to the problems that plague the other companions). That it doesn't have the "cherry" of more mechanical interaction in the dialogue is a price I'm quite willing to pay when you compare to the alternatives.

I disagree about the other companions having problems. I thought they were overall quite well written, certainly at the same level as Durance and GM.

 

[Fairfax]

Grieving Mother and Durance were Avellone's (though I think Fenstermaker and Carrie Patel wrote for them also?)

MCA came up with the concepts and the overall design, but 3/4 of what he wrote got cut and Fenstermaker and Patel were the ones who actually implemented the companions.

What? Fenstermaker said he only wrote Durance's reactions to some environments and added the ability for the player to call him out on his hypocrisy.

"I can tell you the extent of my work on Durance. I wrote (if I'm remembering right) some of his environmental reactivity (like, for example, what does he say when he sees a dragon or the Grieving Mother drowning in a pool of blood), and then all of his banter with other companions, and his interjections into other conversations. I also gave the player an opportunity to call him out on his self-deception and hypocrisy, because it seemed to me that some players would want to, and that they might be more inclined to keep him in their party if they could, despite him being not the nicest guy. I had to make some minor edits to get everything to line up and make sense when his dialogue was pared down for length, but not a whole lot. Chris chose what to cut, and it was fairly clean - there was a layer that could be removed without losing the base of the character. Carrie's work on the Grieving Mother would've been similar, though I'm not sure the specifics.

The cuts came for length. The three limiting factors were time to implement, art resources for the dream sequences, and VO budget. There was a target length we had set upfront for all companions, and we had to stick to it. Otherwise we'd be, for example, voicing maybe one out of every six lines for Durance and the Grieving Mother, and it'd be conspicuously incongruent with the other companions, who had maybe 2/3 of their lines voiced. Unfortunately in this case it meant cutting down characters that had had a lot of research and creative energy invested in them, and there were some good ideas there that it would've been interesting to explore. It was a shitty thing to have to do, but we'd never have been able to implement the original versions in time to ship."

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10231

What about it? He's confirming what MCA said. MCA designed and wrote most of the dialogue, and Fenstermaker is talking about how it was implemented.

 

[Grunker]

I think the difference between Durance and Kana is quite comparable to the difference between Game of Thrones and this:

Except at least Hercules had hilariously bad action segments to break up the monotone writing

 

[Sizzle]

I think the difference between Durance and Kana is quite comparable to the difference between Game of Thrones and this:

Except at least Hercules had hilariously bad action segments to break up the monotone writing

The difference is high-budget bad to 90's low-budget bad? :D

 

[Sentinel]

Grieving Mother and Durance were Avellone's (though I think Fenstermaker and Carrie Patel wrote for them also?)

MCA came up with the concepts and the overall design, but 3/4 of what he wrote got cut and Fenstermaker and Patel were the ones who actually implemented the companions.

What? Fenstermaker said he only wrote Durance's reactions to some environments and added the ability for the player to call him out on his hypocrisy.

"I can tell you the extent of my work on Durance. I wrote (if I'm remembering right) some of his environmental reactivity (like, for example, what does he say when he sees a dragon or the Grieving Mother drowning in a pool of blood), and then all of his banter with other companions, and his interjections into other conversations. I also gave the player an opportunity to call him out on his self-deception and hypocrisy, because it seemed to me that some players would want to, and that they might be more inclined to keep him in their party if they could, despite him being not the nicest guy. I had to make some minor edits to get everything to line up and make sense when his dialogue was pared down for length, but not a whole lot. Chris chose what to cut, and it was fairly clean - there was a layer that could be removed without losing the base of the character. Carrie's work on the Grieving Mother would've been similar, though I'm not sure the specifics.

The cuts came for length. The three limiting factors were time to implement, art resources for the dream sequences, and VO budget. There was a target length we had set upfront for all companions, and we had to stick to it. Otherwise we'd be, for example, voicing maybe one out of every six lines for Durance and the Grieving Mother, and it'd be conspicuously incongruent with the other companions, who had maybe 2/3 of their lines voiced. Unfortunately in this case it meant cutting down characters that had had a lot of research and creative energy invested in them, and there were some good ideas there that it would've been interesting to explore. It was a shitty thing to have to do, but we'd never have been able to implement the original versions in time to ship."

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10231

What about it? He's confirming what MCA said. MCA designed and wrote most of the dialogue, and Fenstermaker is talking about how it was implemented.

No, he's saying that he only wrote about 1/5th of Durance. What is there is mostly Avellone's work.

 

[Starwars]

On the other hand Game of Thrones at one point uses the words "Myrish swamp" to describe a vagina.

 

[Fry]

On the other hand Game of Thrones at one point uses the words "Myrish swamp" to describe a vagina.

Spoiler

 

[Supermedo]

I played original pillars of eternity with it glorious bugs and game breaking patches at launch, I want to replay damn game so when I finish tyranny will be polished by then.
so is whitemarch expansion worth it ?

 

[Sizzle]

I played original pillars of eternity with it glorious bugs and game breaking patches at launch, I want to replay damn game so when I finish tyranny will be polished by then.
so is whitemarch expansion worth it ?

The question has been answered many times before, but basically - if you enjoyed PoE at least a little bit, the odds are good you'll enjoy it even more now that it's been fully patched, and TWM has some of the best content in the game.

 

[Sentinel]

I played original pillars of eternity with it glorious bugs and game breaking patches at launch, I want to replay damn game so when I finish tyranny will be polished by then.
so is whitemarch expansion worth it ?

I think it's really good. Companions are kinda weak with the exception of Zahua, but I think the story really shines a whole new light on the gods. Don't be discouraged by Part I, it's the weakest part.

 

[Sannom]

I think the difference between Durance and Kana is quite comparable to the difference between Game of Thrones and this

The show or the books? Because the show has been a huge garbage fire with little to no redeeming values for three seasons now.

 

[Ent]

didn't the show runners run out of source material and basically started winging it for the last couple of years?

 

[Haplo]

Not really. The last season went ahead of the books, because the author was late with his new one.
Anyway, the show isn't very faithfull to the source material for quite some time.

 

[Fairfax]

Grieving Mother and Durance were Avellone's (though I think Fenstermaker and Carrie Patel wrote for them also?)

MCA came up with the concepts and the overall design, but 3/4 of what he wrote got cut and Fenstermaker and Patel were the ones who actually implemented the companions.

What? Fenstermaker said he only wrote Durance's reactions to some environments and added the ability for the player to call him out on his hypocrisy.

"I can tell you the extent of my work on Durance. I wrote (if I'm remembering right) some of his environmental reactivity (like, for example, what does he say when he sees a dragon or the Grieving Mother drowning in a pool of blood), and then all of his banter with other companions, and his interjections into other conversations. I also gave the player an opportunity to call him out on his self-deception and hypocrisy, because it seemed to me that some players would want to, and that they might be more inclined to keep him in their party if they could, despite him being not the nicest guy. I had to make some minor edits to get everything to line up and make sense when his dialogue was pared down for length, but not a whole lot. Chris chose what to cut, and it was fairly clean - there was a layer that could be removed without losing the base of the character. Carrie's work on the Grieving Mother would've been similar, though I'm not sure the specifics.

The cuts came for length. The three limiting factors were time to implement, art resources for the dream sequences, and VO budget. There was a target length we had set upfront for all companions, and we had to stick to it. Otherwise we'd be, for example, voicing maybe one out of every six lines for Durance and the Grieving Mother, and it'd be conspicuously incongruent with the other companions, who had maybe 2/3 of their lines voiced. Unfortunately in this case it meant cutting down characters that had had a lot of research and creative energy invested in them, and there were some good ideas there that it would've been interesting to explore. It was a shitty thing to have to do, but we'd never have been able to implement the original versions in time to ship."

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10231

What about it? He's confirming what MCA said. MCA designed and wrote most of the dialogue, and Fenstermaker is talking about how it was implemented.

No, he's saying that he only wrote about 1/5th of Durance. What is there is mostly Avellone's work.

I didn't say it isn't mostly MCA, only that the content is 1/4 of what he wrote and that he didn't implement the character himself. Fenstermaker is describing that process: editing, writing banter and interjections, etc.

 

[Sizzle]

Speaking of MCA's contributions to the game, GM always seemed to me a lot more mangled in the editing room than Durance was.

 

[Roguey]

Looks like there's going to be irreconcilable differences between what Grunker wants and what Sawyer demands.

 

[Beastro]

Durance is one of my favorites and certainly feels well-developed but he's also one of those characters, sorta like Ulysses, where he just spews out words at times where it could've been better to have it kept shorter and simpler. I mean, part of it is his character of course but there are many passages in his dialogue which I feel are very... over-written so to speak.

Think he's very important to the game overall though and it would've been a much weaker game without him, but yeah, for me there is quite a lot of fat to trim away in his dialogues, a lot of repetition as well. Again, Ulysses had a similar problem.

In Durance's case the rambling makes sense given how off kilter he is.... but the same could be said as well of Ulysses.

.... and Kreia.

Sheesh, MCA sure likes to write those kind of loons looking for an ear to rant in.

 

[FreeKaner]

Only real complaint is that the new companions are a bit bland (feels like they mostly to exist to fill the remaining class roster) and the whole thing ends somewhat anti-climactically.

What? You think devil and zahua are bland? I do not understand this "bland" meme. Is it a codeword for I don't like it?

Devil-in-Caroc treads awesome territory in recruitment conversation and concept, but it all amounts to "do you kill a random guy to find VENGEANCE(tm) or PEACE(tm)".

Double what? We played the same game? Because Caroc doesn't find peace either way. She says all that time and she didn't feel anything and that it was unsatisfying.

 

[Jick Magger]

Only real complaint is that the new companions are a bit bland (feels like they mostly to exist to fill the remaining class roster) and the whole thing ends somewhat anti-climactically.

What? You think devil and zahua are bland? I do not understand this "bland" meme. Is it a codeword for I don't like it?

What meme? I mean bland because that's exactly what I found them to be: bland. Is english your second language? Do you need me to provide you with the definition of bland?

Devil is great in concept but all they wind up doing with her is making her the generic Whedon-esque cynical snarker with a generic revenge side-quest. I'll admit that I'm probably being a bit unfair to Zahua, just that I didn't find his erudite stoner routine particularly endearing.

 

[FreeKaner]

Only real complaint is that the new companions are a bit bland (feels like they mostly to exist to fill the remaining class roster) and the whole thing ends somewhat anti-climactically.

What? You think devil and zahua are bland? I do not understand this "bland" meme. Is it a codeword for I don't like it?

What meme? I mean bland because that's exactly what I found them to be: bland. Is english your second language? Do you need me to provide you with the definition of bland?

Yes, English is my second language. Yet I don't think there is anything "bland" about a stoner monk whose quest involves him accepting the reality that his quest is futile and ultimately a way to delude himself and a serial killer's soul trapped into an artificial body who fails to come to terms with it. You might not like them but use of the term "bland" for either of those companions is absolutely retarded. Bland means lacking characteristic, you think these companions like characteristics? If anything they are too loaded with characteristics it can burn you out, especially zahua, he goes too over the top with quirks.

That's why I ask why bland is used to describe aspects of PoE, when the better use for a lot of things it got wrong would be tryhard instead. The whole game is filled to brim with the "point" of "your efforts are as likely to fail as they are to succeed" and "learning to live with disappointment". Which is generally never in many games.

 

[Grunker]

Looks like there's going to be irreconcilable differences between what Grunker wants and what Sawyer demands.

Yep - basically I don't agree with him on what constitutes "dry" writing. He seems to have confused dry with bland.

As long as the gameplay is good, it's a beef I'm willing to live with though

 

[Volrath]

Durance felt out of place because he was actually well-written. He tells you the whole story of setting without a single lore-dump, from different angles, discuss the various stakes in it and has a character arc beyond a mere quest-fork where the player decides between A and B.

He was well-written, but the writing style was completely different from anything else in the game, right from the first dialog at Magran's Fork. It's like he waltzed in from a completely different game.

(Edit, addendum: would I have liked to play a game that was all like Durance and the GM? Hell yes.)

He waltzed in from the timeline where PoE wasn't complete and utter shit.

 

[Roguey]

Yep - basically I don't agree with him on what constitutes "dry" writing. He seems to have confused dry with bland.

 

[Prime Junta]

Maybe she likes fart jokes?

 

[Grunker]

Haha