Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[CptMace]

As any 2x level, you'll get to pick a talent. Afaik the only level that unlocks new talents is level 4 but might be wrong. Most of 'em don't do much shit anyway.

Also, whoever said the AI is "better" and can't be killed by Tank and spank is full of shit. Enemies run past tanks about as frequently as they did in Original PoE. In TWM, they do it more often, this is true, but zero improvements were made to the PoE base game monsters. They still mostly just engage your front line and commit suicide by trying to kill the fighter.

There is an AI improvement, it's just not enough for it to be any good. Foes still run around in the wall of flame and shit like that.
However I haven't played between the release version and 2.0 so maybe it's actually been improved long ago since then.

 

[ArchAngel]

Not so much love as it was literally the first game I ever played of this type. So I can confess that as "Baby's first RPG", it hits all the right notes.

Going back to it after BG is suffering/

That is interesting, I finished PoE once and it took me 100 hours to do it as a completionist play.

 

[CptMace]

Why, looks like the dlc contains grimoires with exclusive spells, or at least the one i've found (4 or 5th level). Are there any more of those and what level ?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Really? There isn't anything cool at level 14? My monks dont get a flat damage boost for two more levels, I know that much.

Priest gets resurrection spell, which is nice. Otherwise rest of my party got complete rubbish.

 

[Sensuki]

Also, whoever said the AI is "better" and can't be killed by Tank and spank is full of shit. Enemies run past tanks about as frequently as they did in Original PoE. In TWM, they do it more often, this is true, but zero improvements were made to the PoE base game monsters. They still mostly just engage your front line and commit suicide by trying to kill the fighter.

A lot of people just believe what they're told.

 

[Bubbles]

Just splurged 9 Euros on the expansion pass from a thankfully trustworthy keyseller. Probably bad value for the money, but I'm gonna stay on this ride till the end.

 

[Fry]

Enemies run past tanks about as frequently as they did in Original PoE. In TWM, they do it more often

Enemies bypass tanks about as frequently as they did in the base game except they do it more frequently than in the base game.

???

 

[CyberWhale]

Learn2Read.

 

[Fry]

Learn2Read.

Don't think my reading is the problem here.

 

[Excidium II]

Don't think my reading is the problem here.

Guess it's a memory problem. Didn't you promise AI improvements for the whole game, not just white man's march?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Whole game was supposed to get it yeah. I only played WM so no idea about base game, but WM is definitely improved.

I guess we just have to wait for The Game Analists to complete the base game in 5 hours so he can offer expert opinion about all the encounters.

 

[Fry]

Guess it's a memory problem. Didn't you promise AI improvements for the whole game, not just white man's march?

Me? This is a fascinating theory you've developed.

No idea, I haven't been paying attention to the AI debate that closely. Of the tiny bit of WM content I've played so far, it's obvious AI has been tweaked. Whether it's been tweaked enough is a matter of opinion.

 

[tdphys]

Also, whoever said the AI is "better" and can't be killed by Tank and spank is full of shit. Enemies run past tanks about as frequently as they did in Original PoE. In TWM, they do it more often, this is true, but zero improvements were made to the PoE base game monsters. They still mostly just engage your front line and commit suicide by trying to kill the fighter.

Tank in spank was *mitigated* by losing def based on perception and nerfing some defensive talents. The point is that you can still have a front-line, it just cant stand up to serious encounters as easily. I think that enemies breaking engagement was part of 1.06.. If your trying to punch above your weight, you can't rely on Eder tanking an adra dragon anymore...

Now if you're playing on easy, normal, and perhaps hard, then tank and spank still exists... but you're playing a degenerate game anyways. If you play potd and overlevel yourself by farming lower level encounters which give way too much broken xp advancement, then yeah, you can still tank and spank.

If you play POTD and make sure you challenge yourself... then tank and spank should be off the map.

 

[Excidium II]

If you play POTD and make sure you challenge yourself... then tank and spank should be off the map.

lmao

 

[Sensuki]

Guys guys, if you play Icewind Dale on Heart of Fury mode at level 1, then it's challenging!!!!!11

 

[Shevek]

All this was true of the IE games as well (I actually found the IE games MUCH easier). When I noted that I could steamroll BG1/2/etc with little more than auto attack and the occaisional spell cheese, folks claimed that certain encounters were suitably hard if under geared or under levelled (or that if played 'right' by putting restrictions on yourself, etc). Its the same BS. People try to spin it this way and that but its the same BS.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

That's because none of these games were ever any hard. People just love to pat themselves on the back and fantasize about being amazing at video games.

 

[tdphys]

Yeah... you guys laugh, but where else are you going to find interesting, challenging rtwp gameplay? At its best, pillars beats bgs and icewind dales for combat. ( I don't consider running away from Iraneous until his invulnerabilites wear off as interesting or challenging). There are quite a few decently concocted encounters in the game to enjoy this.

 

[Sensuki]

It doesn't actually. On Path of the Damned it might be harder than both of those games, but the combat is still insanely boring. But then again I don't expect rabid fanboys to agree.

Plus it also depends on what you care about most. Shevek for instance seems to care more about character building than what actual things you are doing in combat, and Pillars of Eternity does offer more choice in that department than the Infinity Engine games (except maybe IWD2?)

 

[tdphys]

It doesn't actually. On Path of the Damned it might be harder than both of those games, but the combat is still insanely boring. But then again I don't expect rabid fanboys to agree.

Plus it also depends on what you care about most. Shevek for instance seems to care more about character building than what actual things you are doing in combat, and Pillars of Eternity does offer more choice in that department than the Infinity Engine games (except maybe IWD2?)

Well... I'd respectfully disagree with what I assume your definition of fun as being fine tuned micro ai exploiting. Where I see PAIB ( pillars at it's best) requires optimizing the composition of a variety of class based strategies; the optimal execution of which can change depending on encounter composition and design. This involves strategic thinking to craft and tactical thinking to implement. Engagement and trash mobs and path finding are lame, there should have been more and better encounter design; but I don't see any other game that can really offer that kind of gameplay.

 

[Shevek]

You dont get it tdphys. Good crpg combat is running around playing freeze tag with swords, right Sensuki? Anything less is too "static." Nothing screams good, dynamic gameplay than baiting bad ai around the battlefield and actively using twitch skills and the worst foibles of real time play to get to victory.

 

[Sensuki]

No, I like reactive tactical gameplay. Pillars combat is not reactive. Everything you do is largely pre-determined. You can basically ignore every action enemies do, other than perhaps Engagements (if you aren't playing with that disabled, although I don't think there's a TWM IE Mod). The IE games have way more reactivity in combat (due to counter mechanics, debuffing/status effect removal - various other things ... some which exist in very limited scope in Pillars of Eternity but due to the nature of the design can still largely be completely ignored) whereas in the IE games you often have to wait to see what actions enemies make before choosing your own. Most decision making in PE is strategical, and most of it is done in encounter setup. Stealth, Positioning and Initial actions.

Long-term strategical resource management aspects (which I suppose were opt-in) that existed in the IE games have also largely been removed by the resting system (designed for idiots who rest spammed IE games).

You *can* turn IE combat into mostly non-reactive fights through mass pre-buffing and rest spamming as some people here obviously do (and defend their playstyle while bashing the game), but that's a non-fun way of playing. To actively make Pillars combat more reactive you basically have to be just bad at the game.

You can also do "fine tuned micro ai exploit" in Pillars of Eternity just the same as you can in the Infinity Engine games. The AI is also dumber in Pillars of Eternity.

 

[Shevek]

You *can* turn IE combat into mostly non-reactive fights through mass pre-buffing and rest spamming as some people here obviously do (and defend their playstyle while bashing the game), but that's a non-fun way of playing. To actively make Pillars combat more reactive you basically have to be just bad at the game.

Lol, such crap. "If you play IE right, you get more challenge and its fun. To have fun with PoE, you have to play it wrong!" You realize how moronic that sounds, right?

 

[Sensuki]

It's not crap. I did expect you to respond that way because you've gone on the record stating that you rest spam and cheese IE fights. If you want to have the same argument again, go ahead.

It's kind of ironic because Pillars of Eternity got rid of pre-buffing (which in the IE games usually made encountrs require less tactical input due to strategical buffs being used, reducing required player reactions), so you'd think that combat should be more reactive than it is.

 

[Shevek]

I dont see how you are figuring what the right and wrong ways to play are in these games. Its fairly arbitrary as far as I can tell.

Its weird too. Some folks say that the IE games tuned encounters for being at full strength since people rest spammed (and then they say that the attrition style play of PoE is what they did wrong). Other folks say rest spamming in IE is the same as using the console a cheat (as is using summons, chromatic orb, kiting, baiting, stinking cloud/web/cloudkill, skull traps, theif traps, etc etc etc) and the best way to play is to squeeze out every spell possible by running around the map like a moron with your characters.

It seems to me that people are all looking back on the IE games from different perspectives and they cant seem to agree what the IE experience was. For me, it was a set of fun, albiet easy and Monty Hall games with well realized worlds. You ran around and blew shit up pretty easily - so replays were generally about how to best kill things EVEN FASTER (party makeup, gear acquisition order, etc) or how to make the thing challenging by playing a small munchkinized party (my fave - Ranger/Cleric, Swash->Fighter or F/T, Cler/Illusionist). IE was not a tactical masterpiece. Anyone that says it was is fooling themselves.