Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Sensuki]

Many of the bonuses you can get from AD&D attributes in the IE games are very meaningful such as the STR bonuses from 18/xx as a Warrior, AC bonus from Dex (which doesn't mean as much in BG2 and next to nothing in ToB though but it does matter in BG1, IWD1), Bonus HP from Con, Max Spell Level/Bonus Spells and if you don't have a high stat as a particular class then it can make the game *a lot* harder. The majority of people that know what they're doing kinda min/max it. For instance, I've never made a Mage with less than 18 intelligence unless I recruited an NPC. For 2E in particular, a lot of the bonuses don't even kick in until you have 15 or more in an attribute so the difference between 15 and 18 can be quite big.

In PE it doesn't really matter whether you have 16 or 18 for any class (let alone a 14 or 18 probably). There's virtually no at-a-glance difference with most of the attributes.

 

[Immortal]

Though I agree that no bad stat distribution is kind of lame.

I like that you said "Stat Distribution". I was on board with Sawyer about no useless stats - I really was.
There shouldn't be useless stats for any class. Every Stat should give something meaningful. IMO.

~However~ There should be bad builds / bad stat distributions.
You need to be able to "Fuck Up" your character build.
The alternative.. AKA the only way to create a game with "No Bad Builds" is using this exact homogenized bullshit that PoE is stuck in right now.

(Or / And make stats so inconsequential that it really doesn't matter what you dump)

 

[Sensuki]

I can see why Sawyer doesn't like attribute systems given that he doesn't appear to be a fan of the "good and bad stat builds" approach. We all know that if he had his own way, the game wouldn't have them. That may not exactly have been a bad thing either.

 

[Immortal]

That may not exactly have been a bad thing either.

> Spiritual Successor to Infinity Engine Games
> No Classes
> No Attributes
> Edgy History Masturbation (Because BG 2 Plot Device sucked)
> Balance
> Kickstarter Goal: Not Fucking Funded

 

[Sensuki]

After the KS, he could have just said I don't like them and thus we're not doing them and classes could have been completely skill-based. There may have been arguments on the forums (extreme arguments?) but ultimately they could have done stuff like that.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

My point is IE stats suck big time too.There is no builds ,if are you warrior->Str/Dex/Con ,are you cleric->Wis,Mage->Int and so on .Yes from 16 to 18 you get some bonuses ,but what is the difference between 8 or 15 Str-nothing! ,from 7-14 Dex-nothing!.

 

[Sensuki]

Well before you said "how is that any different from the IE games, stats hardly matter" and that's what I was responding to.

I agree that both systems have problems but they're completely different problems. I don't really care too much about attributes but that's largely because I don't care too much about lolplaying.

 

[Roguey]

The IE games didn't implement the max spell level for intelligence. The manual lies about it.

Unless you're referring to the number of spells you can scribe per level, in which case, even having mediocre intelligence is more than enough to hold all you spells you need.

 

[roshan]

Basically they "solved" the dump stats "issue" by making every stat a dump stat, thereby achieving perfect banalce!!! by making every stat equally dumpable. I don't know why but up to now I am still astounded by how unbelievably terrible the "design" of this game is.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

True IE experience then.

 

[Sensuki]

 

[Roguey]

Has anyone completed Pillars with all 3s, now that would be a sight to see.

 

[Sensuki]

It would be rather difficult now (without cheesing) that they've upped the CON bonus/penalty. All 10s would be fairly straightforward though.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

#allstatsmatter

You can't have all 3 as bonuses from background will bump some of them,but I think it's doable,as is with all 9s in BG(or what is the min for using rods and wands)

 

[Dorateen]

Someone just did a run in Pool of Radiance with all stats set to minimum.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Some good laughs here. Apparently, PoE is "a min-maxing game". Sawyer is foiled again, and by none other than kotaku.

https://web.archive.org/web/2015100...axing-ruins-rpgs-for-me-but-i-just-cant-stop/

Also this:

It’s happening every time I try and fire up a traditional computer RPG. It’s ruining my experience. So why can’t I just play without risking the bad choices, or the suboptimal builds?

...

I changed my primary and secondary colours three times before settling on one.

Those trannies.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

That's why storyfags are the worst.

 

[Sensuki]

Some good laughs here. Apparently, PoE is "a min-maxing game". Sawyer is foiled again, and by none other than kotaku.

https://web.archive.org/web/2015100...axing-ruins-rpgs-for-me-but-i-just-cant-stop/

Also this:


...


Those trannies.

Why is that a link from the wayback machine? Did he take it down/rewrite it ?

 

[norolim]

I'm guessing, it's because he doesn't want to give kotaku additional clicks.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm guessing, it's because he doesn't want to give kotaku additional clicks.

Yes, I thought it's bad taste to link to kotaku directly.

 

[Sensuki]

Well done, good sir

 

[eremita]

Advice needed. In how many skills can I invest to stay competent? I'm gonna roll a Ranger and besides Survival and Stealth, I would also like to invest in Mechanics. Actually, I'm gonna also invest 2 points in Athletics cause it's a must ( Btw, what a retarded skill, who came up with that? Just RETARDED! This shit supposed to be class/attributes dependent). I know the rules so of course it's not hard to calculate this shit, but that's useless unless I know the DC patterns of traps/setting traps throughout the game. So i guess the question is: can I invest in stealth, survival and mechanics without any of them being inferior? Thanks.

 

[Infinitron]

Advice needed. In how many skills can I invest to stay competent? I'm gonna roll a Ranger and besides Survival and Stealth, I would also like to invest in Mechanics. Actually, I'm gonna also invest 2 points in Athletics cause it's a must ( Btw, what a retarded skill, who came up with that? Just RETARDED! This shit supposed to be class/attributes dependent). I know the rules so of course it's not hard to calculate this shit, but that's useless unless I know the DC patterns of traps/setting traps throughout the game. So i guess the question is: can I invest in stealth, survival and mechanics without any of them being inferior? Thanks.

You'll have problems investing in more than two skills if you want to be competent in Mechanics for the entire game. The other two probably won't be able to go higher than 5 each, and even that might cause you some problems (you'll need an inn bonus to disarm some of the highest level traps in Od Nua).

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Survival is useless,no point investing any in it.Mechanics if you want to open all 10 will do it(12(or 11 not sure) is the max check I have seen in the game and that is 3 lockpicks with 9 or 10 in mech),Stealth is another useless one if not going to try to seal everything and skip combat.Lore 6 is the optimal as it gives you scrolls like Fan of Flames and Nature's Mark at 2,Scroll of Defence at 4,Paralysis and Revival at 6.In Athletics 4 is the standard ,but you can put to 5 if on PotD as combat takes longer.
Merchant Wizard give the best skill bonus as it makes you reach high Mechanics and Lore early and cheaply.
They should had tied Survival with potions crafting.

 

[Infinitron]

4-5 on Athletics is more than you need on most characters. 2-3 is good enough.

10 Mechanics is probably enough to open all locks - it's disarming traps that gets higher than that.

Disagree that stealth is "useless", especially now with individual stealth. It's a playstyle thing, eremita - decide for yourself what you're going to do.