KickStarter Poll - Best Tomb Raider

[Great Deceiver]

Just got through Lost World in TR1 and there isn't anything remotely close to that level in any recent game. Perfectly paced exploration with the tense T-rex battle (aptly foreshadowed by the small raptors) halfway through. Very rewarding.

These games are so simple. It's so easy to grasp the concept. Fuck this cinematic cancer that took over the entire industry.

 

[Ash]

I never realized the PC version was missing so much compared to the PSX port, but I'm glad they've restored sounds, music cues, etc. I'm playing TR1 with Tomb1Main, 2 with TR2Main. These games were really made for keyboard, but it's great that there's gamepad functionality in these fan patches.

Wait until you guys realize after all these years that Tomb Raider 1 was a console game first, and was designed for consoles first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_Raider_(1996_video_game)

 

[Great Deceiver]

Well, whatever I said about keyboard can be said about the digital d-pad as well. The keyboard just lends itself pretty well to the sort of precise movement TR requires.

 

[Neuromancer]

Shouldn't Tomb Raider III support the 3dfx API too?

As far as I remember, starting with Tomb Raider 2, the PC versions were Windows only with video output through Direct 3D.
Of course the Voodoo cards supported this, but there was no direct support for the 3dfx API.

While it may have been a slight decline at that time (The 3dfx API was more powerful and had more functions than contemporary Direct 3D), in the long run it turned out to offer far better compatibility for modern PCs. Also you now have the ability to use higher resolutions today without having to use any extra tools like DGVoodoo.

 

[Semiurge]

Had to copy paste the default keybinds to user since you can't bind arrow keys but besides that and the FMVs not working the game is playing smoothly. Just got into the prison cell and the textures are all messed up but that's a first in the game.

What happens with the FMVs, does the game simply skip them as if they didn't exist, do you get a black screen or something else? You might try to look for a newer version of WINPLAY.dll from another installation of Tomb Raiders 1-3, a file dated 2018 or newer. GOG's current installer of TR2 has such a file whereas their installer of TR3 does not, for some reason. Getting a newer version of that file for TR3 fixed a problem I (and others) had with its longest FMV - the one with the "flasback" of HMS Beagle and its tragic voyage.

The ‘Disable and passthru to real DirectX’ option prevents dgVoodoo from doing anything and just lets the system handle the game as it normally would.

Shouldn't Tomb Raider III support the 3dfx API too? It might be worth checking out as some games looked better with it.

Before I disabled it, the game was just entirely white textures on boot up. Never had that issue with dgvoodoo before now. Couldn't explain why it happened.

I've had that happen when removing the dgVoodoo files from the game installation folder and running the game without them. I don't know what exactly the dgVoodoo configuration exe does beyond creating a config file for the game, but you might need to nuke everything and install the game again to start fresh. The widescreen patch modifies the TR executables, so to undo its changes you need to keep a backup of the original exe.

But. In hindsight I don't remember if the cause of the glitch was removing the dgVoodoo files or using existing configs with a new TR3 install, so disregard all of the above.

Another thing you probably can't do when using dgVoodoo is skipping the in-game cutscenes with Ctrl (or some other key). That caused the same error with texture loading.

 

[schru]

dgVoodoo should be fully removable as long as its DLLs don't replace any existing ones, whether they were part of the game files or of some other compatibility patch. I'm quite sure that changes made in the control panel only affect dgVoodoo's CONF file.

Incidentally, it's worth noting that right-clicking in the control panel shows an option to display advanced settings, so it isn't necessary to edit the CONF file manually to change those that are not visible in the standard view. One that I think is always worth changing in the earlier supported games is the dithering setting—by default it's set always to force 32-bit graphics, but it can be changed so that it's controlled by the application.

 

[Maggot]

The ‘Disable and passthru to real DirectX’ option prevents dgVoodoo from doing anything and just lets the system handle the game as it normally would.

Shouldn't Tomb Raider III support the 3dfx API too? It might be worth checking out as some games looked better with it.

Before I disabled it, the game was just entirely white textures on boot up. Never had that issue with dgvoodoo before now. Couldn't explain why it happened.

I fixed the white textures problem by re-running the setup and tinkering with the settings. Try turning off 8-bit textures and AGP memory.

 

[throwaway69420]

Tomb raider 3 done

TRI>TRIII>TRII

I really don't get why people liked 2 so much. The human enemies sucked to fight and were a bad fit for the series. "OMG VIENNA THOUGH!" Vienna sucked as did most of the levels in 2. Wow, getting shot on a boat and needing to slowly swim through the water to react is such engaging gameplay... The levels being primarily tight manmade corridors was also a terrible decision. 3 has fun gameplay mechanics (though there is unnecessary clunkiness like only being able to hang off a ledge backwards from a crawl and sprinting being all-around awful due to how much it locks you out of controlling Lara) and the level diversity was great outside of Nevada sucking serious dick all-around. (The jungle levels between India and South Pacific could be argued to be the highlights of the original trilogy outside of Atlantis and Temple of Xian, the only good level in TR2) The MP5 is so much fun to use, although I wonder what the point of the Uzis are since they do less damage, have WAY less ammo available throughout the game, and generally don't feel good to use when the MP5 exists. The rocket launcher and grenade launcher also felt a bit too niche. I don't think I used the shotgun a single time in TR3, ammo was too limited for how mediocre it was compared to other weapons. Desert eagle was of course amazing.

Even though TR3 has excellent gameplay and the best level design in terms of grafix and layout, TR1 is still unmatched in terms of ambience and atmosphere. Atlantis is a joy to play through and going from ancient ruins with animals for enemies to fleshy walls and alien threats was a really cool way to wrap up the game. Every level feels unique and fun, where sometimes in 2 and 3 there are levels that feel extraneous, in order to pad the length of the game. All killer and no filler as they say. Well, maybe besides The Cistern. Fuck that level.

I will be starting the nu TR series soon. I wanted to get the original trilogy done to check it off my bucket list. I'm really glad I played them, the movement system is clunky but there is a definite reason for that, with every movement having a unique purpose. I know 4-5 is quite similar to 1-3, but I figured 3 games of pretty much the same stuff is enough. The bonus level in 3 is pretty but feels weird to play, like it's unfinished. I love that the devs give you infinite ammo on NG+, because some weapons are just too fun to bother worrying about ammo.

As an aside, I feel like Lara has become kind of a psychopath by the end of 3. At the end of Antarctica, she hijacks a helicopter where the pilot is just trying to flirt with a pretty woman in Antarctica and she fucking kills the guy immediately. And in India she immediately shoots at the mad researcher on sight even though all he did was say Lara would die in the temple as he ran away harmlessly. (I had to look up the transcript and rewatch the cutscene 3 times to see he had stuck the artifact into his chest. I guess Lara just has eagle eyes?) I read the plot for 4 through to the reboot and man does Lara get bent over in terms of character development. Poor lass... but I must thank her for all the great blender porn she's given us at the end of the day!I can see why so many guys (and girls!) fell in love with her as a character before it all went downhill.

 

[Maggot]

Yeah I don't get the hype for 2 either.

 

[catfood]

1>3>4>2>5

 

[kangaxx]

Tomb raider 3 done

TRI>TRIII>TRII

I really don't get why people liked 2 so much. The human enemies sucked to fight and were a bad fit for the series. "OMG VIENNA THOUGH!" Vienna sucked as did most of the levels in 2. Wow, getting shot on a boat and needing to slowly swim through the water to react is such engaging gameplay... The levels being primarily tight manmade corridors was also a terrible decision. 3 has fun gameplay mechanics (though there is unnecessary clunkiness like only being able to hang off a ledge backwards from a crawl and sprinting being all-around awful due to how much it locks you out of controlling Lara) and the level diversity was great outside of Nevada sucking serious dick all-around. (The jungle levels between India and South Pacific could be argued to be the highlights of the original trilogy outside of Atlantis and Temple of Xian, the only good level in TR2) The MP5 is so much fun to use, although I wonder what the point of the Uzis are since they do less damage, have WAY less ammo available throughout the game, and generally don't feel good to use when the MP5 exists. The rocket launcher and grenade launcher also felt a bit too niche. I don't think I used the shotgun a single time in TR3, ammo was too limited for how mediocre it was compared to other weapons. Desert eagle was of course amazing.

Even though TR3 has excellent gameplay and the best level design in terms of grafix and layout, TR1 is still unmatched in terms of ambience and atmosphere. Atlantis is a joy to play through and going from ancient ruins with animals for enemies to fleshy walls and alien threats was a really cool way to wrap up the game. Every level feels unique and fun, where sometimes in 2 and 3 there are levels that feel extraneous, in order to pad the length of the game. All killer and no filler as they say. Well, maybe besides The Cistern. Fuck that level.

I will be starting the nu TR series soon. I wanted to get the original trilogy done to check it off my bucket list. I'm really glad I played them, the movement system is clunky but there is a definite reason for that, with every movement having a unique purpose. I know 4-5 is quite similar to 1-3, but I figured 3 games of pretty much the same stuff is enough. The bonus level in 3 is pretty but feels weird to play, like it's unfinished. I love that the devs give you infinite ammo on NG+, because some weapons are just too fun to bother worrying about ammo.

As an aside, I feel like Lara has become kind of a psychopath by the end of 3. At the end of Antarctica, she hijacks a helicopter where the pilot is just trying to flirt with a pretty woman in Antarctica and she fucking kills the guy immediately. And in India she immediately shoots at the mad researcher on sight even though all he did was say Lara would die in the temple as he ran away harmlessly. (I had to look up the transcript and rewatch the cutscene 3 times to see he had stuck the artifact into his chest. I guess Lara just has eagle eyes?) I read the plot for 4 through to the reboot and man does Lara get bent over in terms of character development. Poor lass... but I must thank her for all the great blender porn she's given us at the end of the day!I can see why so many guys (and girls!) fell in love with her as a character before it all went downhill.

TR4 is pretty good too IMO. Her character really isn't the centrepiece, and there are some really good levels in that game. I think the rot started to set in around 5.

 

[Lemming42]

As someone who thinks TR2 is the best I'll try to explain:
- The plot is interesting and well paced, a bit more movie-like than TR1 but still very much within the bounds of what is appropriate for a videogame. I like Lara's characterisation the most in TR2, and I like Judith Gibbins' performance.

- The shift from slightly abstract tombs in TR1 to more "realistic" areas was hugely appealing to me. Especially when I was a kid, I loved the way that mundane locations like an oil rig or a Buddhist temple were turned into huge puzzle boxes. I also liked the way they created certain big action movie type scenes (the snowmobile chase, the boat going up the ramp and smashing through the windows in Venice, the big battle against the flamethrower troops in The Deck) without ever deviating from TR's usual mechanics and feel.

- The entire Maria Doria section is spectacular, from the frantic way 40 Fathoms starts, to the point in the second level where you realise the entire ship has been split in half and turned upside down and the strange architecture suddenly starts to make sense. Then there's The Deck, which I think easily matches TR1 for sheer atmosphericness.

- The snowmobile chase, while a bit shit by today's standards, was very exciting at the time. I still really enjoy that level, it was crucial in cementing Lara Croft as a big action hero and the part near the end where you finally capture one of the turret snowmobiles and drive it through enemy lines is a great reward for making it through the tricky platforming earlier in the level.

- Speaking of the snowmobile chase, the game's soundtrack is my favourite of the original three. Snowmobile music is ace but there's a wealth of other great tracks too, the one that plays when you get into the big chandeleir room in Bartoli's Mansion always stood out to me.

- There's a lot more level variety than TR1. TR1 had some incredibly evocative visuals, the Greek and Egyptian levels in particular, but it can sort of start to grate after you've been in the same tombs for so long (especially Egypt, which looks breathtaking at first but then you start to tire of the same bright yellows everywhere after you've spent over two hours there). TR2's blend of everyday locations and paranormal/mystical sites is cool and the scenery tends to change a bit more frequently than TR1.

- I've always loved the Floating Islands level near the end, I have absolutely no idea what the fuck is going on there but it was a fun level with striking visuals. The game's got a really good grasp on when to suddenly introduce absurd shit: the big bird thing at the end of Tibet and the giant eel jumpscare in the Maria Doria levels being other ones that come to mind.

- TR3 has the London levels, which I just fucking hate and can't find anything to enjoy about. I don't mind Nevada as much as some people but it does get to be a massive fucking chore by the time you reach Area 51. The level design just feels sloppy as fuck to me in parts of TR3 as well, even in the South Pacific (probably the best area of the game), there's a lot of shit that feels like some kind of rough first attempt that ended up getting rushed out the door due to time constraints. Also the kayak fucking sucks.

The big criticism to be made against TR2 is the one everyone makes, which is the number of human enemies. Combat in all these games really sucks shit, I kind of prefer the human enemies in TR2 to the animals in TR1 since at least the hitscanner humans require a bit more engagement from the player in terms of making sure you're always behind them and moving out of their line of sight, compared to TR1 where you just backflip away from basically everything, including the Atlantean mutants.

 

[Ash]

-TR2 was genuinely scary. TR1 definitely was spooky asf at times but TR2 leaned into it slightly more musically + more darkness and the introduction of flares.
-TR2 has more guns. This was the mid-late 90s, four guns ain't enough u mad?
-TR2 is unique in that its vehicle levels were actually fun. Venice Boat, Tibet Snowmobile. Still to date the best implementation of vehicles in an action game in my opinion. Well, except the method of getting on/off the boat is super clunky, fuck that shit. Though getting off would be fixed if she only did a reasonable jump instead of that pathetic hop she does.
-Sheer variety of levels. It was a lot. Probably the most in the entire franchise.
-New mechanics: air roll/somersault, ladders, flares, vehicles.
-It's very creative. An offshore oil rig and a fricken opera house inspired such curiosity and dread in young me. Every single level breathes atmosphere, even the more grounded/"realistic" ones.
-The engine saw some improvements, and the overall level of detail in a level was slightly increased.

However, for me it declined in a few key ways:

-Replaced the sensible standard 90s secret system with the 3 Jade Dragons (only rewards you if you find all three) which leaves no room for error, which is just not sensible design; punishes those that only found two of three for example (since you'll often lose health & time finding that secret).
-Replaced the save crystals (save points) with save anywhere an unlimited amount of times (even on consoles), which is decline faggotry.
-It did lose the sense of wonder from TR1 a little bit. It was still definitely there for me but obviously if you're going to set your game in modern day venice as opposed to an ancient tomb untouched for centuries...
-The prevalent hitscan combat is a bit annoying at times, yes. However it doesn't bother me that much because in TR1 far too often you're just locking on to enemies from safe up high with your pistols shooting away endlessly while they run around helpless. Here, that is much less frequent, you have to actually engage though it still is a negative at times because it's too frequent and it's still ultimately TR combat (not very fun).

TR1 or 2 you can't go wrong though. If one is better than the other it's not by much at all.

 

[Ash]

it pains me a lot that classic Tomb Raider is basically permanently lost advanced art. Classic game design in general is, but a lot of doesn't have to be: Tomb Raider is a unique case with grid platforming, highly abstract grand scale hardcore levels, and hell the devs even fuck with you sometimes with the camera perspective swaps. Yes it is to highlight something in particular, like an incoming boulder or spike trap, but it makes reorienting yourself and handling the controls a real ball squeezer especially when you weren't expecting it. It's panic-inducing and that's awesome. If you simply look at it like it's a new form of challenge it's fine, but people bitched endlessly and now games are made exclusively for retards. We will never have something that replicates or advances classic tomb raider, ever. And it will never be respected too, just as all of classic gaming is being wiped out by reboots, remakes, and abandonment of their superior design standards.

 

[Morenatsu.]

-Replaced the save crystals (save points) with save anywhere an unlimited amount of times (even on consoles), which is decline faggotry.

Nope, incline. Replaying shit over and over only belongs in games where replaying is actually fun, which is almost never the case in any game that isn't from Japan. Checkpoints = 95% time-consuming bullshit you already did, 5% surprise bullshit that takes multiple attempts just to figure out what the fuck it even is. Since forever and always.

 

[mediocrepoet]

The original Tomb Raiders suck. There's fewer polygons in everything rendered on the screen than there is in one of Lara's tits in Shadow of the Tomb Raider. And I think we can all agree, that's what really matters in this series.

 

[Ash]

You just outed yourself as a degenerate and/or virgin, ignorant, and a graphics whore in one short post. Bravo you mediocre cuck.

 

[mediocrepoet]

You just outed yourself as a degenerate and/or virgin, ignorant, and a graphics whore in one short post. Bravo you mediocre cuck.

Now now, you're starting to sound like your mother.

 

[Melcar]

The original Tomb Raiders suck. There's fewer polygons in everything rendered on the screen than there is in one of Lara's tits in Shadow of the Tomb Raider. And I think we can all agree, that's what really matters in this series.

NuLara's nipples have twice as many polygons than the entire original TR.

 

[Pound Meat]

The original Tomb Raiders suck. There's fewer polygons in everything rendered on the screen than there is in one of Lara's tits in Shadow of the Tomb Raider. And I think we can all agree, that's what really matters in this series.

NuLara's nipples have twice as many polygons than the entire original TR.

Too bad she's a B cup now.

 

[JarlFrank]

I really don't get why people liked 2 so much.

You can see her bare feet in the sunken ship levels!

Other than that, yeah, I found TR2 to be the second-weakest of the classic series (apart from the final levels in China, those were great).
Too many human enemies, too many modern locations. Oil rig? Come on, that's not a good fit for TR.
TR3 has the same problem. Good level design overall, but I just couldn't get into the Nevada and London levels the same way I got into TR1's beautiful ancient tombs.
Similarly, TR5 is the low point of the classic games due to the devs being fed up with making TR games every year and setting the majority of the game in modern areas that play nothing like classic TR at all. Stealth sections on a Soviet submarine, infiltrating a high tech facility... nah, I don't feel it.

Gimme TOMBS, man. I want tombs. It's in the fucking name: Tomb Raider. Not modern facility raider.
I wouldn't mind places like Soviet military bases if they were abandoned - crumbling brutalist architecture would be a good fit for TR levels. But they had to turn that stuff into still-used modern military facilities populated by human enemies. Doesn't deliver the vibe of exploring lost and forgotten places at all. The crumbling Japanese WW2 bunkers of the 2013 reboot were pretty cool, but the game was an overly cinematic cutscene-fest whose (optional!) tombs were tiny one-room affairs that left you wanting more.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I really don't get why people liked 2 so much.

You can see her bare feet in the sunken ship levels!

You uh... need to meet some real girls.

 

[Semiurge]

The MP5 is so much fun to use, although I wonder what the point of the Uzis are since they do less damage, have WAY less ammo available throughout the game, and generally don't feel good to use when the MP5 exists.

You can't run 'n' gun with the MP5, or fire while jumping. Not very well anyway. This is where the Uzis shine.

And in India she immediately shoots at the mad researcher on sight even though all he did was say Lara would die in the temple as he ran away harmlessly. (I

I think there was enough reason to suspect he was involved in the deaths of his colleagues. The two dead guys in the ruins and the demonstration of the artifact's power he gave at the riverbank pretty much added up. That, and he was nuts from the beginning.

-Replaced the sensible standard 90s secret system with the 3 Jade Dragons (

It bothers me that despite each of these three having their own difficulty, the Jade dragon was usually not the most difficult to find, but most often the gold one. (Imperial) Jade was more valuable than gold in the ancient China.

 

[Neuromancer]

Just a question in-between:
Why does this thread has a Kickstarter tag?

As far as I know, there was never anything official Tomb-Raider-related posted on Kickstarter.

 

[Neuromancer]

catfood:
An actual answer instead of a silly reaction would be more helpful.
I did a search of this thread and there is no mention of Kickstarter anywhere (except of my posts).

Edit: So, you are just a troll. Good to know.